05-27-2004, 16:16
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Red State
Posts: 3,774
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Army Wide Safety Day
Ft. Lewis : One soldier shot in the leg! Pistol had just been cleared by an NCO.
Soldier was suspose to attend selection in afew weeks.
BMT
Jr. FOG
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Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience.
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BMT (RIP) is offline
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05-27-2004, 17:27
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Williamston, SC
Posts: 2,018
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Re: Army Wide Safety Day
Quote:
Originally posted by BMT
Ft. Lewis : One soldier shot in the leg! Pistol had just been cleared by an NCO.
Soldier was suspose to attend selection in afew weeks.
BMT
Jr. FOG
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Who shot the pistol? The soldier, the NCO or the Leg. 
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QRQ 30 is offline
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05-28-2004, 00:04
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#3
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Asset
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 23
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You cannot have an "accidental" shooting without at least three basic safety principles being ignored.
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colt1911fan is offline
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05-28-2004, 07:01
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#4
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You can if it is an ACTUAL accident, i.e., a mechanical failure, and not an ND.
Otherwise, you are correct.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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05-28-2004, 07:34
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#5
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Quiet Professional
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
Originally posted by colt1911fan
You cannot have an "accidental" shooting without at least three basic safety principles being ignored.
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Oh yes you can, in a big way.
I was a PFC in the 82nd and I was a 60 gunner. We were on a battalion live fire. We were just finishing and we had a jam on the 60.
Let me explain to all those that have never fired a M-60. If the gun jams with a round in the chamber you move away and never open the feed tray until the gun is cool. The round stuck in the chamber may get hot enough to “cook off.” And no one wants a 7.62x51 round exploding in their face.
OK we’re sitting there waiting for the gun to cool and who walks up to our position and right in front of our gun? None other than a 2nd Lt and range safety officer. As he walked right in front of our gun two of us yelled in chorus, “Stay away from the gun! BOOM. The gun went off narrowly missing our LT.
We both watched his reaction, you could see his glazed look and know he just lost three of nine cat lives. He had come within a fraction of a second of losing life or limb and he knew it.
The smart bet would have been to ask us why the feed tray was “down” as he approached our position.
Yes you can have a shooting without breaking three rules.
TS
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Team Sergeant is offline
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05-28-2004, 23:21
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#6
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Asset
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
You can if it is an ACTUAL accident, i.e., a mechanical failure, and not an ND.
Otherwise, you are correct.
TR
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Yes sir, what I was mainly refering to was that what people call accidents are usually a chain of bad choices leading to death/injury. Usually it is a brain rather than a mechanical error. For example any of a number of glock accidental discharges by police officers. I am aware that guns can break and should not have made a blanket statement. I guess you could call my previous post an accidental discharge as I made the error.
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colt1911fan is offline
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05-29-2004, 06:41
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#7
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Quote:
Originally posted by colt1911fan
For example any of a number of glock accidental discharges by police officers.
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Technically, those would be Negligent Discharges or Unintended Discharges.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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05-29-2004, 07:09
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
Originally posted by colt1911fan
Yes sir, what I was mainly refering to was that what people call accidents are usually a chain of bad choices leading to death/injury. Usually it is a brain rather than a mechanical error. For example any of a number of glock accidental discharges by police officers. I am aware that guns can break and should not have made a blanket statement. I guess you could call my previous post an accidental discharge as I made the error.
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I understand. I just wanted to make sure people knew that there actually was and could be accidental shootings. I also agree most are screwups and as TR already said they are considered Negligent Discharges (ND's).
TS
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Team Sergeant is offline
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05-29-2004, 21:18
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#9
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Quiet Professional
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Location: Colorado Springs
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TS, had a fellow 2LT (yeah-yeah, I know...) forget the rule about feed tray covers and FTF malfunctions on an M60 in IOBC. Gun stopped firing, he worked the charging handle a few times then opened the cover...BAM! Luckily, he only ended up with a bad case of poweder-burn 'freckles' all over his face and neck; no eye damage or frag wounds. 'Free' lesson on the range that day.
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Razor is offline
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05-29-2004, 21:38
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#10
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Quiet Professional
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18C was working the range for Phase II when an M-60 went down.
He flipped open the feed tray cover to inspect it just as the round in the chamber cooked off.
Lost an eye, since he already had the beginning of a pot belly, the other instructors started calling him "Rooster Cogburn".
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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