Its those pesky jihadist again.... oh well

casey · 01-27-2005, 07:35

PORTLAND, Ore. -- The FBI knows of "jihadists" who have trained in terrorist camps in Afghanistan and are now living in Oregon although there is no "imminent threat," the agency's Oregon chief said on Tuesday. Robert Jordan's comments come as the city of Portland considers whether to remove its officers from a joint terrorism task force with the FBI. Some members of the Portland City Council want greater civilian oversight of the task force. In an interview with The Associated Press, Jordan said the FBI is not aware of any "imminent threat" from al-Qaida terrorists in Oregon. "But I will say this: We have people here in Oregon that have trained in jihadist camps in bad areas. In the bad neighborhoods of the world," Jordan added. He said the FBI knows "they've trained overseas, taken oaths to kill Americans and engage in jihad," but the challenge is "to prove those things." Jordan refused to go into details.

If you have high blood pressure DO NOT read this again line by line. Isn't this the same logic used by the same agency for those dudes who weren't an "imminent threat" just cause they were taking flying lessons!!!! The "challenge" isn't to prove anything, if they are true jihadist - your're not going to prosecute them in court after they martyr themselves - the challenge is to protect Americans - NOW! They're are hadji's in Gitmo with less information on their ass than was quoted here. WTF... Is it just me or are we living in PC bizzarro world?

**Roguish Lawyer** · 01-27-2005, 10:26

I wonder if they are citizens. Makes a big difference.

Goggles Pizano · 01-27-2005, 10:57

Yes casey we are living in a PC bizarro world and you hit the nail on the head-the FBI is once again burying their heads in the sand (or fourth points of contact) approaching things from a "law enforcement" perspective. I hoped attitudes would change quicker since 9/11, perhaps I was too optimistic.

Hey RL want to venture a prediction that the Feebies are taking this approach to your question....."Well even if they are not citizens of this country that makes it an INS issue and we can just pass it off to them. Not our investigation therefore not our problem."? Same old, same old.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 01-27-2005, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goggles Pizano

Hey RL want to venture a prediction that the Feebies are taking this approach to your question....."Well even if they are not citizens of this country that makes it an INS issue and we can just pass it off to them. Not our investigation therefore not our problem."? Same old, same old.

I hope not.

I have only known one FBI Agent, and she was very sharp. This does not mean that I question the bureaucratic ineptitude of the Bureau as a whole.

Gypsy · 01-27-2005, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by casey

If you have high blood pressure DO NOT read this again line by line.

WTF... Is it just me or are we living in PC bizzarro world?

Too late. I read it line by line 3 times before I saw your second paragraph because I find it almost impossible to believe that after 9/11 this goes on.

The PC in this Country will kill us all if more people continue to refuse to wake the hell up.

Trip_Wire (RIP) · 01-27-2005, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

I hope not.

I have only known one FBI Agent, and she was very sharp. This does not mean that I question the bureaucratic ineptitude of the Bureau as a whole.

I have always had very mixed opinions about the FBI. In my career as a LE officer and police supervisor and especially, as a Bomb Disposal unit commander and technician, I have had to deal with them, as well as other Federal agents.

I have had good relations with individual FBI agents; however, dealing with the agency and its burerucracy can be very different. One thing that always gets to the locals, is intel sharing. They want it all...but seldom, if ever return the favor. They also have a tenancy to "look down," at LE.

I have always thought that the Secret Service and its agents, were easier to work with and more inclined to share and treat LE better. Of course, they needed our manpower and support more then the FBI.

So my order of Federal Agencies goes like this:

1.) Secret Service
2.) US Marshal
3.) ATF
4.) FBI
5.) CID, NCIS, OSI
6.) Department of State (Protection during visits not covered the SS)

Just my .02

casey · 01-27-2005, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

I wonder if they are citizens. Makes a big difference.

Only in our world counselor, and only in the confines of structured society. To a true jihadist on our soil this means only one thing - more time.

Quote:

This does not mean that I question the bureaucratic ineptitude of the Bureau as a whole.

Nor should I or anyone, unless proven otherwise. I am willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt as an individual, but the agency is held to a higher standard. Lets liken this to a business analogy. How long would your firm be in business if you put out a national BOLO for 5 Middle Eastern males that later turned out to be a hoax, stated in a public forum that an American lawyers finger prints were on evidence found linked to the Madrid bombing - and were wrong, put a city on alert for a radiological dirty bomb and issued a national BOLO for Chinese males and females (one of whom was already in Federal custody for over two months) which also turned out to be a hoax.
And then make statements like the aforementioned?
(For the sake of brevity I shall not even add other instances here.)

Ineptitude is not pre issued - its earned. Look, in my world the objective of every professional law enforcement agency is to conduct competent, accurate, investigations which lead to sound judgments and follow thru. Especially in our GWT - this is what helps LOWER the anxiety level of Mr. & Mrs America. To continually run the "be scared now" flag up the pole, you must be right every time, or it erodes away all our creditability. IMHO the time has come to develop a true agncy to lead the domestic fight in this GWT, not one who is more and more ignored by "local" LEO's - but what do I know.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 01-27-2005, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by casey

Only in our world counselor, and only in the confines of structured society. To a true jihadist on our soil this means only one thing - more time.

Agreed. But what do you propose to do about it?

Huey14 · 01-27-2005, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by casey

. Especially in our GWT - this is what helps LOWER the anxiety level of Mr. & Mrs America. To continually run the "be scared now" flag up the pole, you must be right every time, or it erodes away all our creditability. .

To go off on another tangent here, but this is one of the reasons why I wonder why the US Govt. has a "threat level" for the general public. Ie "The threat level went up to Orange then down to Yellow today." Eventually people will disregard it. It seems more like a political tool to me.

casey · 01-28-2005, 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Agreed. But what do you propose to do about it?

Continue the mission.

Local law enforcement still develop (IMO) 95% of all intel and closed source documentation within their bailiwick. What would happen if New York, LA, Maimi, Dallas etc. PD's all began a program of true information sharing? Now add into that an agency who could disseminate overseas ground truth and help categorize (not control) the influx of information - ah, the perfect world, and enough said on this forum.
In LA your very lucky to have John Miller, who has done a great job at opening up your AT/CT capabilities. I've seen - and been impressed by LA's foresight. All I'm saying here is, if the information flows only one way - you will eventually be ignored. Its depressing enough to read a "sensitive" intel brief that was covered - in greater depth, on CNN 5 days earlier.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 01-28-2005, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by casey

In LA your very lucky to have John Miller, who has done a great job at opening up your AT/CT capabilities. I've seen - and been impressed by LA's foresight.

Don't forget we had the Olympics here not too long ago. Plus we had Daryl Gates for a long time, who I liked.

I agree with what you've said and appreciate your continued efforts.

casey · 01-28-2005, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

I agree with what you've said and appreciate your continued efforts.

And the part about who's buying beers next time I'm on the left coast is where????????

**Roguish Lawyer** · 01-28-2005, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by casey

And the part about who's buying beers next time I'm on the left coast is where????????

That would be right here.

Bravo1-3 · 01-28-2005, 15:12

There's more to this than the initial post. There's a movement by a few members of the People Central Committee... err, Portland City Council to no longer participate in the JCTTF. A member named Randy Leonard has spent the last year or so actively hindering the feds wherever it is within his power to do so.

His thinking is that he should be given unrestricted access to every detail of what's happening. His motives are clear as glass though. It isn't about "we're paying for our officers to do this" as he claims, it's about gaining political ammo.

Leonard is the worst kind of elitist fraud. You should hear some of his rantings.