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Noslack71 · 02-20-2004, 19:56

NDD, I tend to agree with you. I was a DC cop for about 5 years after comming back from VN. 2 yrs undercover and part of the assault team when the Hanafi Muslims took over The District Bldg and had about 100 hostages in 1977(Jimmy Carter actually negotiated with them). About 60% of the department were former Army and Marine types with at least one tour in VN. I started out walking a beat in the Ghetto, no radio, 1 SW .38,(18 rnds 158 grain round nose bullets) 1 pair handcuffs, nightstick and a blackjack. Communication was via callboxes on the streetcorners. First thing you learn is not to lock anybody up in the middle of the block, you'll have to fight him all the way to the call box. We were expected to become part of the neighbor hood. Crimes were solved by communication with folks in the neighborhoods. The tendency for cops to become more and more military seems to have begun with the war on drugs and the infusion of Federal aid. In 1977 a group of Hanafi Muslims took over the District Bldg. They held about 100 hostages less than 2 blks from the Whitehouse. During the initial takeover 1 student reporter was killed, 2 cops were wounded, Marion Barry was shot in the chest and my partner grabbed his ankles and rushed him down 2 flights of marble stairs(DC Police got its biggest raise in history following that) to save his life. That vwas the end of the casualties. During the next three days DC police officers with mdl 70, .270's (w/iron sights) , 870 pump shotguns and 6 shot.38 cal revolvers held the terrs at bay in the city council chambers with no further injuries. I think I saw two Uzi's and officers on the outside had sniper rifles w/ telescopic sights. A big part of the success was keeping the FBI out of it.
I think the appearance of overwhelming firepower and the military appearance of SWAT teams etc has reached a point of dimishing returns. The WTO riots you mentioned in Seattle. I live across the ditch from Seattle and it was an abysmal showing by the cops. You might notice that DC has many demonstartions each year. Demonstration routes are planned, at each intersection part of the group is forced down another side street. The crowd is continually broken into smaller and smaller groups with routes that never intersect. This is not rocket science but, it does take planning and patience. It seems the police attitude has changed to more of one of confrontation. The Feds have a hand in this. They will come into town, kick ass, stir up the locals and leave the local cops to clean up the mess. I suspect that after a while it is easier to stay in the confrontation mode. If you go that route, it is better to look like a military unit than a group of cops.
9/11 has given a lot of folks who wannbe Rambo but, still want to go home at night, drink a few beers and chase the wife around the kitchen the opportunity to play dress up without have to absorb the other lessons.

02-20-2004, 19:56	#6
Noslack71 Guerrilla Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: East Coast Posts: 116	NDD, I tend to agree with you. I was a DC cop for about 5 years after comming back from VN. 2 yrs undercover and part of the assault team when the Hanafi Muslims took over The District Bldg and had about 100 hostages in 1977(Jimmy Carter actually negotiated with them). About 60% of the department were former Army and Marine types with at least one tour in VN. I started out walking a beat in the Ghetto, no radio, 1 SW .38,(18 rnds 158 grain round nose bullets) 1 pair handcuffs, nightstick and a blackjack. Communication was via callboxes on the streetcorners. First thing you learn is not to lock anybody up in the middle of the block, you'll have to fight him all the way to the call box. We were expected to become part of the neighbor hood. Crimes were solved by communication with folks in the neighborhoods. The tendency for cops to become more and more military seems to have begun with the war on drugs and the infusion of Federal aid. In 1977 a group of Hanafi Muslims took over the District Bldg. They held about 100 hostages less than 2 blks from the Whitehouse. During the initial takeover 1 student reporter was killed, 2 cops were wounded, Marion Barry was shot in the chest and my partner grabbed his ankles and rushed him down 2 flights of marble stairs(DC Police got its biggest raise in history following that) to save his life. That vwas the end of the casualties. During the next three days DC police officers with mdl 70, .270's (w/iron sights) , 870 pump shotguns and 6 shot.38 cal revolvers held the terrs at bay in the city council chambers with no further injuries. I think I saw two Uzi's and officers on the outside had sniper rifles w/ telescopic sights. A big part of the success was keeping the FBI out of it. I think the appearance of overwhelming firepower and the military appearance of SWAT teams etc has reached a point of dimishing returns. The WTO riots you mentioned in Seattle. I live across the ditch from Seattle and it was an abysmal showing by the cops. You might notice that DC has many demonstartions each year. Demonstration routes are planned, at each intersection part of the group is forced down another side street. The crowd is continually broken into smaller and smaller groups with routes that never intersect. This is not rocket science but, it does take planning and patience. It seems the police attitude has changed to more of one of confrontation. The Feds have a hand in this. They will come into town, kick ass, stir up the locals and leave the local cops to clean up the mess. I suspect that after a while it is easier to stay in the confrontation mode. If you go that route, it is better to look like a military unit than a group of cops. 9/11 has given a lot of folks who wannbe Rambo but, still want to go home at night, drink a few beers and chase the wife around the kitchen the opportunity to play dress up without have to absorb the other lessons.
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