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Old 09-25-2013, 10:00   #199
Surf n Turf
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Trapper John,
I generally understand the concept of ID, and "sort of" believe there is some guiding force at work in the universe. I am a skeptic of Darwinism / evolution, and reject the general thesis.
Having said that, I also am in awe of the size, complexity, and unknowns in this 12 - 14 billion year old universe. We have such limited understanding of this universe, that confounds any foundation of "fact", that we probably would err in applying any laws, theorems, or conjecture as "universal". As an agnostic in "current fact based science" I would question the following from your application of universal laws:
SnT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper John View Post
The universality is based upon the observation that the basic organic building blocks for the chemistry of life are found in comets and meteors. If they exist there could they not also exist everywhere else. The basic elements are derived from stars
Didn't "Grateful Citizen" establish (in post #242) that nothing has entered our solar system from "stars".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper John View Post
the laws of chemistry and physics that made them are laws everywhere in the universe. If they did not come from life (biotic) they must have arisen abioticly.
Again( not being hard headed) but you haven't made your case, you know this how ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper John View Post
I contend that there are a finite number of suitable environs in which life can arise. However, the length of time it takes for life to emerge and evolve into intelligent life presents infinite opportunities for mass extinction events to occur
----- HUH ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper John View Post
I contend that there are a finite number of suitable environs in which life can arise.
With an unknown number (but very, very large) of galaxies, finite number of "environs" only if you would consider some number like 666 to the 128 power to be finite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper John View Post
However, the length of time it takes for life to emerge and evolve into intelligent life (bear in mind that there is no driving force for intelligent life to emerge in the first place) presents infinite opportunities for mass extinction events to occur and we know that these catastrophic events do occur.
Wouldn't the obverse also apply -- i.e. infinite opportunities for intelligent life ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper John View Post
Our existence on this planet is finite and if we don't destroy ourselves in the meantime, the sun will ultimately strip away our protective atmosphere and this planet will be reduced a barren rock. So, yes, it is conceivable, even likely, that we are the only or most advanced intelligence in the universe.
Again, to my general theme, We do not know enough to form any knowledge calculus on the universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper John View Post
The humbling aspect of that thought has nothing to do with the solar system revolving around the earth.
I attempted (poorly) a little humor, alluding to a time when man had an over-inflated opinion of his omnificence.
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Last edited by Surf n Turf; 09-25-2013 at 10:01. Reason: spelling
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