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Originally Posted by Sigaba
You made a counter factual argument that the founding fathers would be surprised with what they'd see today.
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Ohhhhhh .... That's what you were eluding to.
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The point of my rhetorical question was to suggest the slight possibility that the turmoil of their day was actually worse, the political divisions were deeper, the challenges they faced were greater, and that they made even bigger mistakes--including a discussion of secession during the Hartford Convention--than the ones politicians are making today.
In short, strident political, social, economic, and cultural conflict have been persistent features of America's past. The interpretation that there was a halcyon period in which Americans broadly agreed on most issues is an idyllic myth.
MOO, if they were to be dumbfounded, it would be over the angst-ridden woe-is-me-the-end-is-neigh hand wringing of ideologues on the left and the right in the face of relatively straightforward issues, the impact of Jacksoniasm Democracy [Andrew, not Jessie], and Sofia Vergara's bountiful, ah, er, accent.
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Damn I wish your posts came with sub-titles or at least a "Press 3 for Comprehensive English" button.
Of course there were pitfalls that they faced when the country was first starting out and of course this country the Nirvana everyone wished it were to be. Republics usually are strife with conflict, within and with out, therein lies the "experiment". But the "dumbfoundedness" that the founding fathers would see today, career politicians (it was an HONOR to serve the people back then, NOT a career), super/special interest groups, lobbyist and major companies/corporations (the pharmaceutical companies come to mind) making policy, (although one could argue that the cotton industry dictated policy back then).
Also, the enormous size of the government today, and yes BOTH the left and the right have had a hand in that. How state representatives don't represent the people in their districts, that they're more interested in pushing through their own agenda. That old saying, "There's no Honor among thieves" comes to mind.
I might also point out that these "leaders" don't lead. I bring to example "Obamacare", which is scheduled to be enforced in 2014. If this "plan" is so wonderful for the American people, why is it that they are EXEMPT from having to follow it ???
Leadership is action, not position. Remember, a Boss says "GO"; a Leader says "Let's Go".
There really isn't a lot of "Let's Go" followed by action coming from D.C.
That, I think would be the straw that breaks the dumbfounded camels back that would knock the stockings off our Founding Fathers. For they said "Let's Go" .... and DID IT.