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-Jas- · 11-17-2011, 11:23

Well maybe a few looks from Germany directly (or added to those working in 10th)

The whole incident moved onto a discussion about the Bundesverfassungsschutz (National Intelligence Service only working on domestic issues - the counterpart to the BND Bundesnachrichtendienst) and its methods.

The main instrument used by the BVSch (see above) is called V-Mann. They are simply spies within those groups and parties. But there are two kinds. Actual Nazis ore criminials working for both sides (convinced V-Mann) or embedded Intelligence Officers. And there´s the catch.

As investigations´going on it seems that some of those embedded ones were actually helping in performing or at least planning assaults in the past without stopping them or giving key information to the agencies and police.

The newly potrayed "NSU" (National Socialism(t) Underground) is an active group in the NeoNazi Scene. So this begs the question: With this information about acts of violence and murder by active members of this group why not just violently smash ´em? Well this is one hope that the gouvernment has secretly. More in favor of putting the Police in spot, they want a national outcry and a solution by the society. Does it work? Well it did in the early 90´s after the first NeoNazis clashes with burning immigrant and refugee shelters.

This time? I doubt it. We do have a violent leftist youth called the Schwarzer Block (Black Block). But they are also highly critisized by the public.

It would be wonderful to see just those two groups of lunatics fighting it out on the streets and the rest just watching from the balconies as 2 problems are solved at the same time but they both have on common enemy - the gouvernment.

Can we rely on the massive amount of immigrants living in Germany? Hell no. That would be the worst thing to happen. If they step in the fight it will only trigger more affection for those NeoNazi groups.

So what´s lef is well the Gouvernment and its executive powers of police, intelligence and perhaps the military (also doubting that).

And there the devil´s circle closes itself. The only instituitions to powerfully fight these groups are highly involved within them due their V-Mann. Getting rid of them is not an option cause information is still key. It´s a dilemma and noone has a real solution to this right now...

Let´s see how it further develops. If they manage to tag more murders and assaults to the NeoNazi Scene, and (sad to say that but thats how it works here) even some native german Victims (seems like their looking into linking the assault on the Police President of Passau to the group) it may cause the society to loudly call for "revenge" and disrupting of the NeoNazi Scene. Hopefully this will not lead into a growth of the Black Block on the left side.

11-17-2011, 11:23	#5
-Jas- Asset Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 28	Well maybe a few looks from Germany directly (or added to those working in 10th) The whole incident moved onto a discussion about the Bundesverfassungsschutz (National Intelligence Service only working on domestic issues - the counterpart to the BND Bundesnachrichtendienst) and its methods. The main instrument used by the BVSch (see above) is called V-Mann. They are simply spies within those groups and parties. But there are two kinds. Actual Nazis ore criminials working for both sides (convinced V-Mann) or embedded Intelligence Officers. And there´s the catch. As investigations´going on it seems that some of those embedded ones were actually helping in performing or at least planning assaults in the past without stopping them or giving key information to the agencies and police. The newly potrayed "NSU" (National Socialism(t) Underground) is an active group in the NeoNazi Scene. So this begs the question: With this information about acts of violence and murder by active members of this group why not just violently smash ´em? Well this is one hope that the gouvernment has secretly. More in favor of putting the Police in spot, they want a national outcry and a solution by the society. Does it work? Well it did in the early 90´s after the first NeoNazis clashes with burning immigrant and refugee shelters. This time? I doubt it. We do have a violent leftist youth called the Schwarzer Block (Black Block). But they are also highly critisized by the public. It would be wonderful to see just those two groups of lunatics fighting it out on the streets and the rest just watching from the balconies as 2 problems are solved at the same time but they both have on common enemy - the gouvernment. Can we rely on the massive amount of immigrants living in Germany? Hell no. That would be the worst thing to happen. If they step in the fight it will only trigger more affection for those NeoNazi groups. So what´s lef is well the Gouvernment and its executive powers of police, intelligence and perhaps the military (also doubting that). And there the devil´s circle closes itself. The only instituitions to powerfully fight these groups are highly involved within them due their V-Mann. Getting rid of them is not an option cause information is still key. It´s a dilemma and noone has a real solution to this right now... Let´s see how it further develops. If they manage to tag more murders and assaults to the NeoNazi Scene, and (sad to say that but thats how it works here) even some native german Victims (seems like their looking into linking the assault on the Police President of Passau to the group) it may cause the society to loudly call for "revenge" and disrupting of the NeoNazi Scene. Hopefully this will not lead into a growth of the Black Block on the left side.
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