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Old 09-20-2004, 17:46   #45
The Reaper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum
HOWEVER (you knew there had to be a "However," didn't you?), Colonel Grossman argues (convincingly I think) that LE patrol HAS to be the responders... it takes our SWAT Team a minimum of 45 minutes to muster on an emergency call out. My rough estimate is it would take about 90 minutes for a dedicated SMU from the 10th SFG (assuming purely for the sake of discussion that there was such an SMU), with an element continually on standby, to reach Columbine. The shooting was over in 20 minutes. How long would it take for this military force to reach Cheyenne? Albuquerque?

A Beslam-type school hostage-taking? Heck, yeah, send in the first string, and I don't mean FBI's HRT.

But for a fire team of Mujahideen running through the halls of Elementary School, USA, the best (not perfect) solution is to gun them down like the rabid dogs they are (or "wolves," if you will) ASAP. Can LE do that at our current state of mindset, tactics, skill? I doubt it, and it will be a steep, horrific learning curve when we're caught - and we will be - with our trousers down. (recognize that "mindset, tactics, skill, etc," Razor?)
skibum:

Great post.

You have the facts, I am merely operating off my external observations. I would just add that I will always wonder why the SRO at Columbine exchanged only a few shots before withdrawing to let the scumbags go on their killing spree. I do not have the details, but I have always felt (as a soldier) that if I am the only thing between bad guys with guns and the kids, you will find me dead or having run out of ammo. That is your job, and you owe it to the kids.

Finally, I would point out that 20 minutes after the shooting started, the teacher who bled out was still alive and the kids with him were begging for help. This is unsat, IMHO. The SRO calls in the report and shoots untill he is unable to return fire. If he is still able, he reports and controls the initial reponders till somone better equipped to be in charge shows up. The SRO needs a weapons locker with at least a shotgun and a patrol carbine, and all patrol units should be outfitted the same, raid vests, helmets, masks, and comms packages. You give me 2-4 guys to pull perimeter security and as soon as two more show up, we are stacking up and going in.

I cannot believe that with all of the money being spent on homeland security, and with ammo and training as cheap as it is (certainly cheaper than litigation), that your department has not instituted mandatory CQB training with a crawl, walk, run scenario, culminating in a force on force Sims drill. That would at least ID the non-hackers and give the rest some confidence in their equipment and training.

TS is right, we understand that this (or North Hollywood, etc.) are very rare incidents and you probably do a lot more domestic violence, sexual assaults, and larcenies than full on shootouts.

If the situation lasts till we can get there, a dedicated military unit is the best option. Prior to that you must have an in extremis force to do what they have to and BPT immediately assault if the sit goes bad. That is where the Russians failed as well.

Thanks for sharing.

TR
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