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**Airbornelawyer** · 07-29-2004, 19:30

That general's statement is hyperbole. The average NG combat unit is probably much better than the average European regular combat unit, but the weakest NG unit is hardly better than the best European unit. Consider the statement solely in the eyes of the criteria with which Peters introduces the quote - the level of combat experience. While it may be that, overall, "half of our National Guard is made up of combat veterans," there are some units, such as the infantry battalions of Florida's 53rd IN BDE, that have a much higher percentage and some that have a much lower. The weakest of these will thus not have the benefit of that combat experience (though they may have other advantages over many European units).

But in evaluating it as a bit of hyperbole vs. a piece of analysis, consider again what the general said: "the weakest National Guard unit you saw in your career." Ever? Peters served in the 1970s and 1980s. A 1970s NG infantry brigade is light years ahead of the best modern European combat brigade?

That said, the general statement I noted - that the average NG combat unit is probably much better than the average European regular combat unit - is in my opinion the case, at least as regards most European armies without significant out-of-area experience. British and French maneuver units are fairly experienced and well-trained, but German, Italian, Spanish and Polish units suffer from experience, training or equipment deficits, or some combination thereof.

For example, a typical active duty German brigade will have some percentage of its TOE inactive (usually one maneuver battalion and some slice of CS/CSS). Among the active battalions, the bulk of soldiers, especially the shooters, will be draftees serving for 10 months. Many draftees never participate in a battalion or brigade-level CTC deployment, because their 10 months are up before the next rotation.

And weapons systems are a mish-mash of old and new. German and French tankers have two of the most modern MBTs in the world, but their accompanying mech infantry ride around in 70s-vintage IFVs. The AMX-10P and the Marder are 1st generation IFVs, comparable to a BMP-1. The Germans recently scrapped a plan to procure a replacement for the Marder due to cost and no perceived heavy threat. German and French army aviation are similarly behind the times.

07-29-2004, 19:30	#7
Airbornelawyer Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,952	That general's statement is hyperbole. The average NG combat unit is probably much better than the average European regular combat unit, but the weakest NG unit is hardly better than the best European unit. Consider the statement solely in the eyes of the criteria with which Peters introduces the quote - the level of combat experience. While it may be that, overall, "half of our National Guard is made up of combat veterans," there are some units, such as the infantry battalions of Florida's 53rd IN BDE, that have a much higher percentage and some that have a much lower. The weakest of these will thus not have the benefit of that combat experience (though they may have other advantages over many European units). But in evaluating it as a bit of hyperbole vs. a piece of analysis, consider again what the general said: "the weakest National Guard unit you saw in your career." Ever? Peters served in the 1970s and 1980s. A 1970s NG infantry brigade is light years ahead of the best modern European combat brigade? That said, the general statement I noted - that the average NG combat unit is probably much better than the average European regular combat unit - is in my opinion the case, at least as regards most European armies without significant out-of-area experience. British and French maneuver units are fairly experienced and well-trained, but German, Italian, Spanish and Polish units suffer from experience, training or equipment deficits, or some combination thereof. For example, a typical active duty German brigade will have some percentage of its TOE inactive (usually one maneuver battalion and some slice of CS/CSS). Among the active battalions, the bulk of soldiers, especially the shooters, will be draftees serving for 10 months. Many draftees never participate in a battalion or brigade-level CTC deployment, because their 10 months are up before the next rotation. And weapons systems are a mish-mash of old and new. German and French tankers have two of the most modern MBTs in the world, but their accompanying mech infantry ride around in 70s-vintage IFVs. The AMX-10P and the Marder are 1st generation IFVs, comparable to a BMP-1. The Germans recently scrapped a plan to procure a replacement for the Marder due to cost and no perceived heavy threat. German and French army aviation are similarly behind the times.
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