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Old 09-11-2009, 12:54   #30
Scimitar
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Quote:
1) Islam is static and thus different from any other religion, impervious to any evolution, it has always been this way it will always be this way.

2) Islam is dangerous and must be dealt with, but like any religion it is composed of people. People can diminish or force the evolution of any political or religious entity, especially with the emergence of strong leaders.
All well said,

And you have driven home the point of the thread which essentially is
"What IS the 'Islamic' variable exactly?" and "How should we interact with it strategically?"

Let’s lay down some facts here.
1) Europe WILL BE Muslim demographically and politically in 20-40 years, even Europe is starting to wake up and realize that. As a 31 yr old I fully expect the west to become a minority well before I die.
2) Islam as it stands today and sees it self today has at its very core the scriptural authority AND THE MANDATE to wipe you and me off the planet. This is fact people.
3) For the Islamic world to not continue to flow in that direction it needs to pull away from the intense gravity of it's own sacred text, one that very very clearly states that every good Muslims job is to wipe you and me off the planet.

So....in 20-40 years Islam will have the power geographically (Europe) and economically (oil) as well as the scriptural authority nay mandate to destroy or Judeo-Christian ethic, which weather you like it or not IS the basis to “our very way of life” that our boys (and girls) are bravely dying for in the box and elsewhere.

Now, can Islam change the way it sees it's self and interprets its sacred text in a significant enough way so that we can stop having to seeing it as a fundamental threat to our Judeo-Christian world view?

Sure it can. But I think the question that we need to ask is can it make that change quick enough?

Christianity made that change only because a signifcant number of its members where able to sit down and say, "Hey the scripture doesn't say that, it very clearly says this, you (the church leadership) have been misinterpreting it due to blindness brought about by political power. So we have the authority of scripture to change Christianity, and I will stand on that authority and take action" Martin Luther butchered and paraphrased.

On what basis can moderate Islam make a stand? It’s scripture says we should be wiped off the planet, is moderate Islam going to say "Hey I know scripture says to kill them all, but based on the authority of my desire to be a nice guy I am going to stand against you my brother and probably die for me belief"

The Christian reformation of total political control to no political control actually took around 800 years, Islam is about 400 years into that process and the second 400 years is a hell of a lot harder then the first.

Do you really think Islam can squeeze the rest of that change which took Christianity 400 years into 40 years and with the added handicap of basing that change on wanting to be a nice guy where as Christianity based it’s change on the authority of its scripture.

Like I stated earlier, for a Muslim to be good (read plural) they must ignore their scripture, for a Christian to be good they must listen to their scripture. Pluralism actually is “Biblical”. (P.S. Ultra Pluralism isn’t)

We are dealing with a religion (and therefore a people) who’s sacred text fundamentally wants to wipe us of the planet. Like any of the major religions it finds its authority in its sacred text.

It can not change in time, its minority militancy has the authority of its holy scriptures backing them up and they have the will to die for it, its moderacy has no real authority backing it up and certainly doesn't have the will to die for that belief.

In 40 years Islam will be the World Super Power with the cultural and political agenda of converting you or killing you and it can't make that giant leap from thinking about changing (where some of it is right now) to actually fully changing in 40 years.

Good thread…

Scimitar
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Last edited by Scimitar; 09-11-2009 at 14:31.
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