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NousDefionsDoc · 01-31-2004, 09:41

I'm for it, in a radically different form than it is now.

I agree with CRad, D9 and The Reaper. I also like what RL had to say.

NBG - as a white male from RI, you can't say the "barriers have been broken for years." There are still barriers, in the South, "things" are understood. Usually those "things" involve demarcation by railroad tracks, believe it or not. They don't use the GS dogs and water hoses too much anymore, but the barriers still exist. Look at the conflict and comments made when someone goes over that invisible line. The only ones that can say the barriers have been broken are those pushing against them.

I agree with TR, the military in general and SF in particular are based on skill more than probably any other place I've ever seen. One of the best medics and finest soldiers I ever served with was not a WASP. I don't know what he was, I never asked. But it is still noticeable, obviously. I have never met Guy, but I know he is not a WASP - why do I know that? How do I know that? I think DD (?) is of Chinese descent because he mentioned it once. I know about Guy because of what others have posted. Until we habitually say "You know, Bob Smith, SF Medic?" instead of "You know, Bob Smith, that Black/Chinese/Mexican SF Medic?" We're not there.

I think diversity still needs a push sometimes. Hell, if I was still in, there's a chance I could be SMA or at least USASOC CSM (LOL) - and I can remember when the schools were integrated, when there were separate drinking fountains in the county courthouse and when we had separate swiiming pools. One hour a quarter in "Living with Others" class isn't going to erase all that.

Group dynamics. We have a tendency to want to fit in, so we seek groups that facilitate that. I fit in better with rednecks from the South better than with black men from NYC. Left to my own devices and military experience taken out of the equation, I would probably not have allowed myself the opportunity to meet Guy, DD (I think I have the right guy here) and some others on this board. And that would be my loss. I definitely would not have made cyber friends with the lawyers - they need AA and an expense account to get people to talk to them.

What I don't believe in are quotas. I think that given an even playing field in the beginning with a mechanism to override preconceived notions due to race that merit should be the discriminator. But until we can honestly judge people as they are, at this time and in this place - without those preconceived notions, we still need a mechanism that forces us to at least take a look.

Most of this discussion appear to address the black community - what about discrimination yet to come? There will always be somebody new to hate.

I do agree that AA and diversity are used as political tools to "control" blocks of votes and in its present form, it does more harm than good. Especially to the very groups it proposes to protect.

I am the minority down here. I'm the "Spic". And you know what, its been an eye opener from day one. Everything takes me twice as long. I had to put my business in my wife's name because Gringos can't own security companies - we're not trustworthy (can't swim, can't see well in the dark, can't do math - sound familiar?) People assume I am very wealthy because of the color of my skin - I am at a higher risk of kidnapping because of it. People assume I work for the Embassy because I'm a white boy. I get called Gringo, Mono, etc., even by little kids. People I don't know speak to me like I'm retarded because they assume I don't speak Spanish well enough to understand a normal conversation. My wife and her family used to put their hands out to keep me from crossing the street because they thought I didn't know how to do it, down here. I accept it because there's 44 million of them and one of me. And its their AO.

So, I am in favor of diversity in schools, maybe up to and including college. After that, you've had your playing field evened and need to make it on your own. I am in favor of diversity in civil government - without it, you run the risk of oppression and having a government that is not representative. I am not in favor of forced diversity in the workplace or the military.

Just .02 pesos from a White Boy livin' in a Salsa World.

01-31-2004, 09:41	#21
NousDefionsDoc Quiet Professional Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: LA Posts: 1,653	I'm for it, in a radically different form than it is now. I agree with CRad, D9 and The Reaper. I also like what RL had to say. NBG - as a white male from RI, you can't say the "barriers have been broken for years." There are still barriers, in the South, "things" are understood. Usually those "things" involve demarcation by railroad tracks, believe it or not. They don't use the GS dogs and water hoses too much anymore, but the barriers still exist. Look at the conflict and comments made when someone goes over that invisible line. The only ones that can say the barriers have been broken are those pushing against them. I agree with TR, the military in general and SF in particular are based on skill more than probably any other place I've ever seen. One of the best medics and finest soldiers I ever served with was not a WASP. I don't know what he was, I never asked. But it is still noticeable, obviously. I have never met Guy, but I know he is not a WASP - why do I know that? How do I know that? I think DD (?) is of Chinese descent because he mentioned it once. I know about Guy because of what others have posted. Until we habitually say "You know, Bob Smith, SF Medic?" instead of "You know, Bob Smith, that Black/Chinese/Mexican SF Medic?" We're not there. I think diversity still needs a push sometimes. Hell, if I was still in, there's a chance I could be SMA or at least USASOC CSM (LOL) - and I can remember when the schools were integrated, when there were separate drinking fountains in the county courthouse and when we had separate swiiming pools. One hour a quarter in "Living with Others" class isn't going to erase all that. Group dynamics. We have a tendency to want to fit in, so we seek groups that facilitate that. I fit in better with rednecks from the South better than with black men from NYC. Left to my own devices and military experience taken out of the equation, I would probably not have allowed myself the opportunity to meet Guy, DD (I think I have the right guy here) and some others on this board. And that would be my loss. I definitely would not have made cyber friends with the lawyers - they need AA and an expense account to get people to talk to them. What I don't believe in are quotas. I think that given an even playing field in the beginning with a mechanism to override preconceived notions due to race that merit should be the discriminator. But until we can honestly judge people as they are, at this time and in this place - without those preconceived notions, we still need a mechanism that forces us to at least take a look. Most of this discussion appear to address the black community - what about discrimination yet to come? There will always be somebody new to hate. I do agree that AA and diversity are used as political tools to "control" blocks of votes and in its present form, it does more harm than good. Especially to the very groups it proposes to protect. I am the minority down here. I'm the "Spic". And you know what, its been an eye opener from day one. Everything takes me twice as long. I had to put my business in my wife's name because Gringos can't own security companies - we're not trustworthy (can't swim, can't see well in the dark, can't do math - sound familiar?) People assume I am very wealthy because of the color of my skin - I am at a higher risk of kidnapping because of it. People assume I work for the Embassy because I'm a white boy. I get called Gringo, Mono, etc., even by little kids. People I don't know speak to me like I'm retarded because they assume I don't speak Spanish well enough to understand a normal conversation. My wife and her family used to put their hands out to keep me from crossing the street because they thought I didn't know how to do it, down here. I accept it because there's 44 million of them and one of me. And its their AO. So, I am in favor of diversity in schools, maybe up to and including college. After that, you've had your playing field evened and need to make it on your own. I am in favor of diversity in civil government - without it, you run the risk of oppression and having a government that is not representative. I am not in favor of forced diversity in the workplace or the military. Just .02 pesos from a White Boy livin' in a Salsa World. __________________ Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home. He knows only The Cause. Still want to quit?
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