[Razor]

Originally Posted by JMI

Waiting another year, after waiting 12, would have meant what? What is the absolute worst that could have happened?

Well shoot, what's another year, right? What's another two? What's another decade? The leadership techniques I was taught said that every time you ignore someone doing the wrong thing, you give tacit approval to everybody else to do the same. We may not have engaged immediately, but the circus-like UN negotiations and on again/off again weapon inspection permissions were overtly flaunting the rules set in place not by just the US, but also the "world community". I don't know if you have children, but when my kids decide to not only ignore my rules, but also make a show of it, they quickly learn the error of their ways.

Yet we never thought what to do next. Why? Because we rushed through this decision with political capital in hand, and an enraged (yet uninformed) electorate fired up and raring to go. We never had a plan after his ouster. Maybe if we were not in such a hurry we would have avoided so many deaths.

Maybe, but then again maybe not. I guess I'm a little more forgiving of the leadership as I'm not accustomed to having perfect information (intelligence) before making my decisions. Surely, there could have been a better post-invasion plan, but as you said, we had political capital, and sometimes timing is everything. A good plan executed today is far better than a perfect plan executed after the fact.

Leadership means you do not act on impulse. You use patience, think through all potential actions, and gather support and intelligence.

Again, I don't think 12 years falls into the impulsive category, or even 2 years for that matter. Also, as I mentioned above, you plan as well as you can and then act on what you have, even if its not perfect. Do you really believe that plans to invade Iraq were built from scratch in 2002? It would have been nice for some COIN-savvy folks to have had more input into the OPPLAN, but the reality is that COIN wasn't a priority to planners until it was staring them in the face. Welcome to the wonderful world of conventional military strategic planning. We could have refined the existing plan for another 10 years and you wouldn't have had any more post-invasion COIN content in it than it had from the get go.

It is quite sad that not even on this board can a discussion take place about our shortcomings in leadership.

Perhaps its because on this board there are a few folks that understand the difference between planning and execution, and that taking more time in the former does not always guarantee flawless execution in the latter. Hell, you see that in any professional sport; regardless of time and money spent planning and practicing, in the end someone goes home the loser.

I am second guessing because now, after almost 5 years, it would have been nice if our leaders thought of something, any-fooking-thing, after the invasion. They had no plan after chopping off the head because they rushed the decision.

Maybe you're privvy to better information than I, but it seems to me that "The Plan" has been modified (to varying degrees) several times over the last 5 years.

I sure as shit would not have wasted the Global Capital and Good Will as quickly as we did. That was a fooking colossal mistake. No getting that moment back.

Political capital and goodwill based on ignoring issues that benefit the illegal acts of others (the corrupted oil for food program, Germany and France selling chem and bio technology to Iraq, etc.) has no true value, and is totally dependent on your continued complicity. I'll pass on that, thanks.