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Originally Posted by 82ndtrooper
This is yet another example for more legislative gun control ammunition for the Brady bunch clowns. I dont presume to know the Utah state gun laws for age of lawful purchase of a firearm, but you can bet that the firearm used was not sold to him legally.
What is worth noting is that the law enforcement officer was off duty and was carrying concealed. In other words, the right to carry concealed halted this massacre before it elevated to a higher number of deaths and or injuries. Assuming that you could carry concealed on the premisis of the mall, then its worth a longer conversation for the carry concealed laws in the act of defending another under lawful circumstances. How would a law abiding citizen, non LEO, engage this threat without being seen as yet another bad guy ? Maybe COLAWMAN can share any of his thoughts and concerns ?
Assuming that you or I were carrying concealed and where willing to engage this threat, how would one distuingsh him self as a law abiding citizen acting in good faith to protect another ? The confusion would surely get you or I in someones sight picture quickly (LEO) I've never been one to believe that any type of carry concealed badge is worth the $5, but having one around your neck just might enable the LEO's to relize that you are on their side, not the bad guys. Of course the intervention by a citizen may be criticized for just this very reason, but if my child, loved ones and friends are in immenent danger, then I'm either going to take a bullet for them, or enage the threat. I'd prefer to engage them, not take the bullet.
I'd be interested in COLAWMANS thoughts on this type of scenario.
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I am a strong advocate of CCW permits. If my child or wife are at the mall and this scenario plays out, I want every capable citizen within their vicinity armed.
Your concern about LEO response seeing a civilian armed with a handgun as they arrive on scene is spot on. The Ogden officer in Salt Lake City was unable to get his badge out and a Salt Lake officer drew down on him........tense! This is a risk that off duty officers take, some have wound up being shot and even killed by fellow officers in similar situations.
In most instances the responding officer is trained to challenge before pulling the trigger. If those civilians with CCW recognize that they need to "immediately" become passive (drop the gun) they greatly increase their chances of not being shot.
Colorado currently has new legislation regarding our "Make My Day Law." The law will extend to all business owners being allowed to employ deadly force if they feel their life or that of another is threatened. I am a strong supporter of this bill. I know there are drawbacks, but the good that will result, far outweighs the risks. I also believe that there needs to be exceptions to this law. I do not believe this should extend to bars, massage parlors, XXX book stores, or businesses of ill repute.
You will find that I am on record as advocating our schools arming those willing teachers, custodians, and administrators. I believe that the knowledge that a teacher, or several teachers might be armed goes along way toward deterrence. Same goes for business owners. Which Mom and Pop store are you, joe shet the gang banger, going to rob? Odds are they will drive to the Nebraska or Wyoming border and hit a store there.
LTC David Grossman says that we can be sheep when the wolf arrives.....and violence such as this will continue unabated. He chastises, in his seminars, those off duty officers and military personnel who are not armed 24/7.
I believe that the fewer sheep in a school, mall, or church the sooner the wolf again becomes an endangered species. But then again I am jaded. Half the bars in my city have armed guards patting everyone down as they enter the establishment!