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Old 01-21-2007, 15:32   #12
Peregrino
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPH
With all do respect,
JPH
JPH - You did ask and you do deserve a considered reply. The Libertarian "expose'" in the video that started this thread is correct. It is also irrelevant. As WM and TR have pointed out - taxes are necessary. As TR is driving home, they've been around a long time. Few complained because early collections weren't payroll taxes imposed on the average citizen. Today, the majority of this country cannot exist/function without the services the government provides. Many of those services are "extra-Constitutional". Again - it really doesn't matter the way the conspiracy theorists would have people believe. The People have the government they want/deserve. If you disagree, and want an accountable Congress, responsible to whatever you perceive the "Will of the People" to be, then the only legal option is to participate fully in the political process. As you implied in your post, simply voting is not really enough. Push for a Constitutional Amendment forced from the State level imposing term limits on the congresscritters. In the meantime, you're beating a dead horse.

As for the larger issues - welcome to the pendulum theory of societal evolution. (I prefer the wheel as an analogy; pendulums never go anywhere whereas (living) cultures are in constant motion. The same point of a wheel always comes around; it's just a little further down the timeline - always similar, never the same. And lessons from the past still influence the present/future.) The country has not "fallen", nor is it going to fall. It's just going to continue evolving. Some of us don't/won't like the direction but it can only happen IAW the "Will of the People". When enough of us don't like the direction, it will change. The only issue in doubt is the mechanism.

FWIW you can trace the overt decline of the Republic to "The War of Northern Aggression". The measures Lincoln instituted to preserve the Union (suspending the Constitution and usurping the will of the people and States Rights by force of arms) were as pivotal as throwing a switch in a rail yard. The train is on a different track and has been moving away from the "original intent" for at least 160 YEARS. The next major turning point (in my mind) was FDR and the Great Depression. Enter Socialism (actually it can be argued that it's the American Fascism your video complains about). As the pace of society increases so too do the opportunities to "influence" the train's route, e.g. Johnson's "Great Society". Since the original usurpation, whenever a decision point has been reached, it has become easier to shift further from individual freedoms (and responsibilities)/States Rights and closer to a tyrannical (as defined by the Libertarians) stateist regime.

"The body of the American people is substantially republican. But their virtuous feelings have been played upon by some fact with more fiction, they have been the dupes of artful manoeuvres, & made for a moment to be willing instruments in forging chains for themselves."
- Thomas Jefferson


Returning to the path envisioned by the Founding Fathers will require a profound shift in the American psyche. Change is either evolutionary or revolutionary. We've gotten where we are today as the result of a perfectly natural evolution. We no longer have the government the Founding fathers envisioned, mainly because the vast body of "the People" don't want it. (Most of them have no understanding of it, nor do they care so long as their lives aren't inconvenienced.) Maybe it will come back around though probably not in our lifetimes. Freedom exists best on a frontier. We'll need a new one before conditions exist again to foster the "rugged individualism" that is the antithesis of modern society yet is required for true freedom to thrive. A few points to ponder:

If you’re insistent on exploring the Libertarian mindset, check out Backwoods Home Magazine at http://www.backwoodshome.com. Two of their authors, John Silveira and Claire Wolfe regularly contribute thought provoking (regardless of your political orientation) articles. Both have decidedly Libertarian viewpoints and they do their homework. Expect to be forced to think, and to examine why you believe whatever you do. Unfortunately most will respond with a “knee jerk”.

You should also read more by Alexis de Tocqueville. For a 19th century Frenchman he had an amazing grasp of the motivating forces behind democracies in general and America in particular. Applicable quotes really are too numerous to repeat here.

He's not the only one. "The fate of every democracy, of every government based on the sovereignty of the people, depends on the choices it makes between these opposite principles, absolute power on the one hand, and on the other the restraints of legality and the authority of tradition."
John Acton


You might also want to examine lessons learned from the "Rise and Fall of the Roman Republic". IMNSHO there are a lot of parallels.

The only important question is: “where do you draw the line and what price are you willing to pay to hold it”?

FWIW - Peregrino
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