[NousDefionsDoc]

Mr. Logan,
Sorry, I missed this before.
Interesting post. You've never seen me pull a trigger and you talk about "putting someone up"? You should know better than that.

I see by your profile that you worked at The Lake, so you know what it takes to keep up the skill sets that are required for discriminatory shooting in confined spaces with large numbers of choices. Now, let's look at this objectively shall we? Pilots - I believe they already have extensive re-quals they have to go through in order to be pilots. Then they have the actual flights, crew rest, etc. When are they going to train with weapons?

Teachers probably have the time, but where will they go? Is there a range with classroom mock-ups in every town that would arm them? where you going to find 30 role players per session?

Others may disagree and that's ok, but I firmly believe that the kind of shooting we are talking about here cannot be trained to the level required on a flat range or out at the local dump.

Yes, I am arrogant. Very arrogant in fact. Never denied it. I have also spent most of my adult life training soldiers to do exactly what we are talking about here. About 300 of them in the last 3 years. NCA troops. We also train instructors to do the same. About 50 of them in the last couple of years. These are combat troops, volunteers, in their prime. Everyday, I see what happens to their skills after as little as two weeks off their guns. Every six weeks, we spend 2-3 weeks getting them back up to speed.

You are mistaken about what I think. I believe in responsible, professional gun ownership. Not that every idiot has a right to carry because of an accident of birth. I believe that rights are a two-way street. That there is a required responsibility on the part of the citizen to exercise their rights appropriately. In my world, those that carry do so responsibly and professionally or they do not carry. If a person is willing to put in the time and effort to learn to use a weapon as it should be used, then by all means they should be allowed to exercise their right to carry. If teachers and pilots are willing to be held to the same standards for discriminatory shooting as those that do it currently, then fine, they can carry. Are they willing? Are they able?

Those that are good at what we are talking about are probably less than 1/10 of one millionth of 1% of the military population in the world. There is a reason for that. They go through extensive selection and assessment. The best training in the world. And then they sustain their skills everyday for the duration. It becomes what they are. Shooting a BG from across a classroom with 30 screaming kids in it is not a skill I would classify as an additional duty assignment.

I have no problem whatsoever with Joe Citizen carrying as he goes about his daily activities. But teachers and pilots are not Joe Citizen. There are others involved.

Yes, I believe in a certain way in restrictive gun laws. I believe that if one is an idiot or not willing to put in the time and effort it takes to be proficient (and I'm not talking about some bullshit marksmanship eval), then they shouldn't be allowed to carry. I believe that rights are earned, not given. I don't think God had anything to do with the Bill of Rights. I also don't believe the Founders had anything to do with them excepting for writing them down (with the exception of those that fought). I believe those rights and all the others we all enjoy were earned with the blood, sweat and tears of those proficient at arms and willing to do what had to be done. Having said that, these are not the days for amateurs.

I have 5 family members that are/were school teachers. I have one that is LEO. I have a couple of hundred Brothers. I have been to the finest combat shooting school and served in the finest unit of its type the US military had to offer. I have worked local private security for American, Delta and Continental in what was a high risk environment. I am not speaking to that which is unknown to me.

No, not all school teachers are liberals. Yes, there are some school teachers that are proficient with weapons and could very easily be allowed to carry. But we are not talking about a chosen few. We are talking about school teachers. People that have dedicated their lives to educating our children, not shooting crazy bastards in the face. If you only arm certain segments, what will you do with the rest? What will you say when the crazies begin to choose the teachers and pilots that aren't armed? How long before law suits force a change? How long before the standards have to be lowered to accommodate the lowest common denominator? What will you do to the pilot that leaves his weapon in the bathroom or the teacher with tenure that NDs? do you really think an airline is going to fire a union pilot with 20 years of experience over something like that? What will we do to them if they take action and fail? What will their response be to any criticism of their decision making? Will we just say, "Oh well, he did the best he could. Too bad those two were in the way."?

Oh, and then there is always the mind set. What mind set do you want in the teachers of your children? Are you expecting to instill combat mindset in teachers all across the country because of 10 school shootings? 100? Do you really want your kid's teacher to have combat mindset? How about a maternal-protection instinct? Can you develop that in male teachers? How much additional training will they be willing to go through in order to achieve it?

Despite what many people say, it cannot be switched on and off like a light switch and anyone can deny that all they want, but I know it to be true. You either have it or you don't.

No mindset? In my world, an armed man without combat mindset and warrior ethics is called a target.

Imagine for a second the kind of mean son of a bitch it takes to deal with these crazy rampage bastards. The noise, the confusion. The one reacting is already at a disadvantage with no real way to get it back. His weapon is locked away, the guy is already shooting and has probably killed, He has to step over the body of some kid (maybe his own) that he's known for a while to get to the fight, everybody is running around wild. And we expect the geography teacher to exhibit the same bravery as the firemen and LEOs that went into the Towers on 9-11? And in order to achieve it, we'll give him what? A one week course and 70 or above on B27s at 15 meters once a year? These crazy bastards ain't messing around, they're walking in the door and laying waste - they are terrorists.

This isn't about the 2nd Amendment. You shouldn't be trying to make it so. It is about having the skills to overcome tremendous odds to save lives. If teachers and pilots as groups were capable of doing that on anything approaching a regular basis, they would be LEOs, firemen or soldiers.

Shooting AWGs ain't a hobby Brother, it's a way of life. And you don't get good at it by shooting bulls on Saturdays at A Place To Shoot, then going for wings and beers at Friday's. And you know that.

This isn't the first time I've been called a liberal. It's actually kind of funny, although being a Medic, I suppose it's not all a bad thing.

I don't believe for a minute "that only the uniformed, badge carry folks deserve to carry a gun." I know quite a few LEOs and soldiers that shouldn't be allowed to carry a slingshot, much less a weapon. It is the first time I've been called a sheep. Funny, you accuse me of painting with a broad brush (which I did), but at least I know members of the groups of which I speak - you have deemed to characterize me without ever having met me or knowing anything about me. Interesting. I'll tell the 28 shooters we've got now I'm a sheep on Monday - should be good for a laugh.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. That is the beauty of the this thing.

Anecdote - The Kid learned gung-fu. Actually got pretty good at it. Bigger kid hit him and The Kid put him down. Clear case of right of self-defense. No excessive use of force (one technique). School response was to attempt to counsel me on the need for peaceful resolution of conflict through dialogue or some such shit. Shrink, whole 9-yards.

"Yes ma'am, we'll get right on that counseling thing. Now, in case you didn't notice there's a crazy man KIAing kids in the lobby, better go clear the lobby and eliminate the threat. Oh, and while you're at it, his partner is wiring the stairwell. What's that? You haven't had stairwells in your "training" yet? Well, just do the best you can, I'm sure they're not all that complicated."

One last thing:

Obviously those that have a problem with using deadly force or those who are not up to par should not carry.

How do you know, until it is too late? Are you willing to expend your kids to find out? I ain't.