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Old 07-09-2006, 08:22   #187
The Reaper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd Job
There has been (as yet) no rebuttal or evidence from any of the key players who have a financial (or otherwise tangible) stake in the LeMas product, to the effect that what Charles Arbuckle posted is not true. In other words there is no effort to refute the claim that some LeMas 'spitzer' projectiles are rebranded OTS commercial projectiles.
To my knowledge, there is only one person posting here who has a financial interest in the LeMas ammunition, though there may be several who have an interest in seeing it fail.

As I have explained previously, the manufacturer has repeatedly informed LeMas that the projectiles loaded in the LeMas ammunition are not the same as the COTs bullets they resemble. I have pulled a few rounds and they do look like the bullets GKR has suggested they might be. I do not have the ability to make that call, and I suspect that LeMas does not either. Charles Arbuckle made several claims. Some of them seem to be rather incredible. LeMas has said that they have assurances that the claims that the bullets are COTS is not true. Until someone has conducted comparable testing with the COTS bullets in ballistic gelatin, live tissue, and armor, I think that the allegation remains just that. He may be right. Or he may not. I would like to see the terminal ballistic testing which substantiates that claim.

In the quote that I cited, in your second sentence, you clearly stated that the projectiles are off the shelf ("Because the projectiles are off-the-shelf and are common"). That citation was the basis for my statement that you had claimed that all LeMas ammunition was off-the-shelf. If you meant that an unsubstantiated claim had been made that the rifle projectiles were COTS, then that would have been a correct statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd Job
To progress now, I am no longer going to make comments or post anything to do with the LeMas rifle bullets. I'll keep those comments for another time and place.
So to clarify now: I am interested in the LeMas handgun ammunition, and if you like, I can restrict my observations to the X-rays. I'll wait until they are available.

Is this acceptable, sir?
That is more than acceptable. I have no problem with you posting on this thread as long as it remains respectful, professional, and relates to the topic of Dr. Vail's article, specifically, the wounding characteristics of the LeMas ammunition in live tissue. I believe that everyone involved has agreed that better X-Rays need to be taken at the next LeMas live tissue shoot (probably with portable veterinary gear), and that you will be provided with those X-Rays. If you have some specific radiographic requirement (beyond what you have already mentioned) that you think would be beneficial to the test, I am sure that all attempts would be made to accomodate you.

I would really like to see Gary Roberts participate in this discussion with an eye towards his attendance at the next LeMas live tissue shoot.

TR
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