Professional Soldiers ® - View Single Post - Trauma Surgeon Evaluates LeMas

**The Reaper** · 05-20-2006, 15:55

Chuck:

I think that you will find that here, you will get what you give. A professional comment will get a professional discussion, mud-slinging will likely lead to a banning, rather than any personal slander or photo posting. I never said that you were fat, BTW.

The surprising thing to me is that GKR is on here frequently, and I for one would invite a discussion between him and Dr. Vail, but he seems unwilling to pick up that glove here.

Frankly, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I believe that an open discussion between the two of them could get LeMas to agree to a head to head, with GKR and his experts/witnesses and their preferred loads in a head to head live tissue test against Dr. Vail and LeMas ammo. I could be mistaken though. It occurs that what Dr. Vail did would qualify as scientific testing, since he performed repeatable experimental testing in a field he is experienced and credentialled in, and evaluated it.

Strange to me that you found the discussion here "collective thinking" when the people providing most of the discussion have actually fired the rounds on tissue, unlike most forums, where people are merely expounding on what they have heard from second or third hand sources.

Hard to say what is hype till you have seen it work for yourself. If you doubt me, fine, but I would caution that an opinion carries a lot more weight when it is backed up by experience and empirical data. I have shot everything from their 9mm to their .300 Win Mag. For me, the key was that the rounds performed in a consistent manner and were destructive in a manner hard to imagine unless you have witnessed it for yourself. I have fired the rifle rounds against covered tissue as well as through glass and it performed in the same manner. I have seen it shot through cockpit glass, which is pretty tough stuff and some of their bullet designs can do it consistently.

I cannot explain how it functions, but as I noted, since varmint bullets seem to come apart pretty quickly in gelatin and the LeMas does not fragment in gelatin at all, how can that be the key to how it works? Has GKR done any live tissue testing at all?

Welcome aboard, BTW.

TR

05-20-2006, 15:55	#43
The Reaper Quiet Professional Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Free Pineland Posts: 24,825	Chuck: I think that you will find that here, you will get what you give. A professional comment will get a professional discussion, mud-slinging will likely lead to a banning, rather than any personal slander or photo posting. I never said that you were fat, BTW. The surprising thing to me is that GKR is on here frequently, and I for one would invite a discussion between him and Dr. Vail, but he seems unwilling to pick up that glove here. Frankly, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I believe that an open discussion between the two of them could get LeMas to agree to a head to head, with GKR and his experts/witnesses and their preferred loads in a head to head live tissue test against Dr. Vail and LeMas ammo. I could be mistaken though. It occurs that what Dr. Vail did would qualify as scientific testing, since he performed repeatable experimental testing in a field he is experienced and credentialled in, and evaluated it. Strange to me that you found the discussion here "collective thinking" when the people providing most of the discussion have actually fired the rounds on tissue, unlike most forums, where people are merely expounding on what they have heard from second or third hand sources. Hard to say what is hype till you have seen it work for yourself. If you doubt me, fine, but I would caution that an opinion carries a lot more weight when it is backed up by experience and empirical data. I have shot everything from their 9mm to their .300 Win Mag. For me, the key was that the rounds performed in a consistent manner and were destructive in a manner hard to imagine unless you have witnessed it for yourself. I have fired the rifle rounds against covered tissue as well as through glass and it performed in the same manner. I have seen it shot through cockpit glass, which is pretty tough stuff and some of their bullet designs can do it consistently. I cannot explain how it functions, but as I noted, since varmint bullets seem to come apart pretty quickly in gelatin and the LeMas does not fragment in gelatin at all, how can that be the key to how it works? Has GKR done any live tissue testing at all? Welcome aboard, BTW. TR __________________ "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910 De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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