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Originally Posted by Gene Econ
APLP:
You are going to have a hard go of it with no requirements coming from a proponent. I have a little bit of a different view of the RDTE and procurement system. My experience has been that the system is totally driven by a requirement. My experience has also been that even off the shelf technology takes a long time to acquire.
The Test and Evaluation system dislikes being forced to test and evaluate something that hasn't been blessed as a requirement. It costs a huge sum to test any sort of munition and someone has to pay for these tests. I understand your conflict with ballistic gelatin. I have no opinion on it either way myself. I am wondering if DoD is prohibited by law from live tissue tests.
As for M-855. That stuff was designed in the late 70s to meet a requirement for penetration and some increased range over the M-193. The requirement was based on the Soviet threat and the doctrine then was to avoid at all costs close combat. Simply put, we wanted the bullet to penetrate as much hard material as it could and if it put a hole in someone (inflicted a wound) that was good enough. Those who wrote the requirements for the 855 and those who designed it are probably retired by now. That was twenty five plus years ago. For better or worse, the M-855 met the requirements that drove its design.
From working in the RDTE system and with Ballistics Research Lab from time to time -- many years ago -- I will also comment that the military (DoD) could care less about civilian LEA requirements or circumstances surrounding LEA shoot outs. They do care about range, accuracy, penetration, lethality, and cost -- based on their requirements and not necessarily in that order. That is once the requirement has been blessed and is funded. Congress approves the funding so politics is part of the equation no matter how much it may upset some.
I would think that USSOCOM would be a proponent if they thought it was needed.
Just my thoughts. As you know, I wish you the best in your efforts.
Gene
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Thanks for your comments Gene,
Non ballistic gelatin testing is very restricted but can be accomplished for any government organization. The current DoD TIPT structures which consist of many elements to include government procurement entities are about to concluded and road show a very comprehensive small arms ammunition study. The study only used ballistic gelatin as a predictive indicator for living tissue performance and only mild steel barriers were used to discriminate hard barrier penetration capability. The report will not acknowledge that the Le Mas ammunition provides valid increase for operational capability over the currently procured ammunitions. The data will also probably embrace new cartridge designs which basically push heavier slower bullets and so the never ending circle back towards the 30.06 type of rationales will prevail. The M-262 will also probably be championed as a solution to any perceived lack of lethality in the current 5.56 weapon inventories.
In the last 5 years I have had a fair amount of hands on interface with both tier 1 and 2 end users. The feedback has never been anything but outstanding, however efforts to push new requirements forward from the bottom up was always shut down on the second or third deck. You would truly not believe how many folks have been hands on, and yet cannot move the ball forward.
I now believe it to be a fact that the Le Mas ammunition must now be pushed abroad before they can be brought back for our folks to use. Something to do with how mandated lateral transfers of technology back to the US can be accommodated, but top down, or bottom up won't fit the current US procurement protocols any other way.