PTSD Fraud
 

Like no Shiite.....

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...=dod_170609.nl

The House Veterans Affairs Committee heard testimony Wednesday that was both encouraging and disturbing about PTSD programs and allegations that some vets are faking symptoms to get a disability check.

The Department of Veterans Affairs has greatly expanded its treatment programs for mental health problems overall, and for post-traumatic stress disorder in particular, said Dr. Harold Kudler, acting assistant deputy under secretary for Patient Care Services at the VA.

In fiscal 2016, the VA provided mental health treatment to 1.6 million veterans, up from 900,000 in 2006, Kudler said. Of the overall figure, 583,000 "received state-of-the-art treatment for PTSD," including 178,000 who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, he added.

Kudler said the number of Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation New Dawn veterans receiving VA treatment for PTSD has doubled since 2010, while VA services for them have increased by 50 percent.

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In addition, the VA is increasingly open to alternative treatments for PTSD, including the use of hyperbaric chambers and yoga, but an Army veteran who went through VA treatment for PTSD said the expansion and outreach leave the program open to scams by veterans looking to get a disability check.

Brendan O'Byrne, a sergeant with the 173rd Airborne Brigade who served a 15-month tour in the remote Korengal valley of eastern Afghanistan, told the committee he was overwhelmed by "crippling anxiety, blinding anger" compounded by drinking when he left the service in 2008.

After four years, he was given a 70-percent disability rating for PTSD and was immediately advised by administrators and other veterans to push for 100 percent to boost his check, O'Byrne said.

"Now, I don't know if they saw something that I didn't but, in my eyes, I was not 100 percent disabled and told them that," O'Byrne said. But they continued to press him to go for a higher rating. His arguments for a lower rating went nowhere, he said.

In VA group counseling sessions, "I realized the sad truth about a portion of the veterans there -- they were scammers, seeking a higher rating without a real trauma. This was proven when I overheard one vet say to another that he had to 'pay the bills' and how he 'was hoping this in-patient was enough for a 100-percent rating.' I vowed never to participate in group counseling through the VA again," O'Byrne said.

"When there is money to gain, there will be fraud," he said. "The VA is no different. Veterans are no different. In the noble efforts to help veterans and clear the backlog of VA claims, we allowed a lot of fraud into the system, and it is pushing away the veterans with real trauma and real PTSD."

Committee members, who are accustomed to hearing allegations of fraud and waste within the VA but rarely about scamming by a veteran, did not directly challenge O'Byrne's allegations, but Rep. Mike Bost, R-Ill., told him he was unique. "That's the first I've ever heard of a vet wanting to reduce the amount of benefits they're receiving," Bost said.

O'Byrne was a central figure in the book "War" by author Sebastian Junger, who also testified at the hearing on "Overcoming PTSD: Assessing VA's Efforts to Promote Wellness and Healing."

Junger said society must share the blame for the prevalence of PTSD. "Many of our vets seem to be suffering from something other than trauma reaction. One possible explanation for their psychological troubles is that -- whether they experience combat or not -- transitioning from the kind of close communal life of a platoon to the alienation of modern society is extremely difficult."

Then there is politics. "In order for soldiers to avoid something called 'moral injury,' they have to believe they are fighting for a just cause, and that just cause can only reside in a nation that truly believes in itself as an enduring entity," Junger said.

"When it became fashionable after the election for some of my fellow Democrats to declare that Donald Trump was 'not their president,' they put all of our soldiers at risk of moral injury," he said.

"And when Donald Trump charged repeatedly that Barack Obama -- the commander-in-chief -- was not even an American citizen, he surely demoralized many soldiers who were fighting under orders from that White House," Junger said. "For the sake of our military personnel -- if not for the sake of our democracy -- such statements should be quickly and forcefully repudiated by the offending political party."

The allegation that some veterans are bilking PTSD programs is not a major concern for Zach Iscol, a Marine captain who fought in Fallujah and now is executive director of the non-profit Headstrong Project.

"If there are people taking advantage of us, that's OK, because we have a bigger mission," Iscol said, but he also noted that Headstrong does not give out disability payments.


Cont. at link

It's going to take veterans to call other veterans frauds. No physician is going to call a soldier a fraud in fear of being fired or worse.

After hearing stories about PTSD counseling sessions I'd be willing to bet some 50% or higher PTSD suffers are actually frauds.

Makes you wonder how many join the military with the goal of being a PTSD fraud and receiving a pension for the rest of your fraud / scammer life.

I'd say you are correct...if not a higher percentage. The non combat arms types who have never left the big compounds ....

The other issue is most Psychs say and PTSD trauma eventually lessens dissipates with time....VA payouts do not.

What the PTSD physicians need is a 1-800 Fraudbuster line.

I've heard some frauds, frauds we have listed in our own Hall of Shame, tell the doctors that they saw American soldiers kill babies. The doctors believe everything they say..............

That's how I found a few "green beret" frauds, other in the PTSD counseling sessions send me an email asking if this guy was in fact a "green beret".

My own experience at the VA says you are right...I was there for some school benefit and a psych (after looking at my 214) tried to talk me into a PTSD claim.
I guess that is job security for them too....win/win.....the shrinks keep a Govt. paycheck and the GI gets one too.....perfect.

PTSD is the golden ring these days. That and "Sleep Apnea". I recently retired and I had SEVERAL folks encourage me to file PTSD and Sleep apnea claims KNOWING that - as fucked up as I may be - it has NOTHING to do with PTSD or sleep apnea.

IN fact, I'm 0% disabled despite 36 years in the military and just shy of 20 years on jump status. Now...I don't agree with that but Im also not trying to play the system. I've got a guy in my office now that is 100% disabled. Fucking guy does cheetah flips past me on the way up the stairs in the morning.

The system is broken and we have created the conditions where troops feel entitled to play it. It needs to change.

It's not going to change unless vet's take the lead and force changes. A career ending move for anyone that tries other than a vet.

We need a Veteran Fraud org dedicated to targeting veteran VA fraud. The VAIG has enough on its plate just going after corrupt VA staff, vendors and contractors. I've been in contact with a few VAIG types and they all say the same thing, "if said "PTSD" veteran even thinks they have PTSD, they will receive treatment and a paycheck and there's nothing we can do"

I've turned in a few green beret frauds to the VAIG for PTSD fraud and none will ever be investigated for fraud.

Ain't going to happen, ever.

To all of you out there that do not apply for disability just because you can, I say THANKS!! I cannot begin to remember the number of guard and reserve guys I have met who served in Iraq and Afghanistan that told me all they had to do was apply and they would get 35% disability.

Not sure why but this has long been a pet peeve of mine. I think the PTSD fraud is rampant. Every damn yahoo that went to OIF or OEF gets considered from what I can tell, and from my experience 85 to 90 percent of deployed soldiers never left their base the whole time they were there.
If this is truly a real issue, and I know the suicide rate is astronomical for veterans, then maybe we need to make Basic Combat Training a little more harder. That is part of the purpose of that initial training in the first place is to make every soldier understand that they might be in a combat situation regardless of what your MOS is.
When I was a Drill Sergeant we had mental cases that we chaptered out because they couldn't hack basic training. From what I have heard over the years basic is so much easier now.
There were a whole shit load of WWII vets and I'll carry it on to Korea and Vietnam vets who seen an extreme amount of action and you don't hear anything about them crying and whining to the VA that they need a check.
Case in point: I became good friends with a Vietnam vet (82nd/11th ACR). He drank and was in fights all his life, divorced, etc.... He retired after working 38 years for the county and was then diagnosed with liver disease. He finally went to the VA (he was purple heart recipient and still had shrapnel in his leg). They immediately told him he had PTSD and gave him 100% disability. This man more than likely did have PTSD but he went his whole life without crying for the government to give him a handout. (He passed away almost five years ago now).
There are definitely soldiers who deserve to be treated for this and those POS's who claim this and don't have it are taking a lot away from the great people who do need the treatment!
I know of two individuals locally here who have committed suicide in the past five years or so. One I didn't know personally and one I did. Both were combat vets one in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. From talking to people who went to school with them, they all told me that those guys had always had problems mentally and were just kind of different. I cannot fault those guys for whatever drove them to make that decision. The military should be at fault for not making things hard enough for them in the initial training phase so those mental weaknesses show up.

Sorry for the long rant. I just know of at least one person who had played/plays the system and know of some others who tried to get my dad to play the system for money for his Vietnam service.

Political Correctness writ large! I was in a Carl's Jr. recently (Camp Verde, AZ, guys) and they offered a veteran discount. The guy behind the counter asked if I was a vet. I don't usually take the vet or senior discounts, but I asked him, "If I am, how do I prove it?" He said that they are not allowed to ask for proof. Sounds like the VA can't either.

ETA: Carl's was soliciting money for their Veterans Fund which I did donate to.

Pat

Hang-on, did I read that right?

583,000 are receiving PTSD care, but only 178,000 deployed to recent theaters.
You can't tell me the rest came from Desert Storm / Vietnam?!
How many served post Desert Storm, but never deployed to Iraq / Afghanistan?
What am I missing here?!

S

I feel for you guys and girls.

Looking in from the outside, one of the most valuable assets of the Veteran community is the extremely high regard in which the public holds the US military and Veterans in general.

It's the most respected institution/cohort in the country.

Conversely, those cohorts with the lowest positive perception in the eye of the public are politicians.

It's far easier for politicians to drag Veterans into the mud than for them to climb out of it.

I agree with Team Sergeant, it's going to take Veterans calling out other Veterans, because non-Veterans aren't "culturally allowed" to do it.

You're not alone in suffering from this unfortunate behaviour by our own. For the last 16 months we've been building a cloud based community to backfill the epic implosion of our NZ equivalent to VFW, which down here is chartered to provide Veteran Support Services.

We are regularly finding Veterans feeding from the trough amongst the many decentralised and non accountable chapters.

Probably a number of those PTSD claims are military snowflakes who were traumatized by having to get up and put on a uniform every day or some other foolishness, and never heard/saw a shot fired in combat.

A Friend
 

Had a friend fighting with VA over a 20% claim for a shoulder they messed up.

Last time he went to VA they confirmed the 20% and they gave him 80% PTSD.

I was like WTF? And he said since his wife had just left him they gave him the 80% PTSD for depression.

I'd be careful about accepting a PTSD diagnosis. IIRC, the VA can have your firearms confiscated if you have PTSD...