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-   -   Best Special Operation of All Time (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2483)

Roguish Lawyer 07-13-2004 15:35

Best Special Operation of All Time
 
I am nearly finished with Spec Ops: Case Studies in Special Operations Warfare: Theory and Practice, by William McRaven. The author analyzes several successful special operations from WWII, Viet Nam and Entebbe and attempts to draw conclusions regarding what makes a special operation successful. Presumably because he wanted to interview participants in the operations, he did not discuss anything pre-WWII.

Some of the operations discussed in the book are the German assault on Eben Emael, the British raid on St. Nazaire, the Son Tay raid, and the Entebbe rescue.

What do you think the greatest special operation in history was? I've included a poll, but I'm sure I've left out some important operations.

The Reaper 07-13-2004 16:08

You are focusing on raids.

I think that FID/UW is a better mission to examine.

100 Americans and some support aircraft enabled a Northern Alliance force to defeat a Taliban opponent 10 times their size. I believe that this will go down in history as one of, if not the greatest SOF ops of all time.

On the flip side, 55 American advisors (largely SF) enabled the El Salvadorean government to defeat an externally sponsored insurgency and survive to a peaceful settlement.

Just my .02, Bill McRaven is a good guy and I know him, but I will confess I haven't read his book. Sounds similar to my thesis.

TR

Roguish Lawyer 07-13-2004 16:28

Quote:

Originally posted by The Reaper
You are focusing on raids.
I just used the ones from the book. I guess it is no surprise that a SEAL focused on raids, eh?

hoepoe 07-13-2004 16:31

Entebbe
 
I gotta go with Entebbe, i don;t know details about the others to make a fair comparison; but even in it's own right it was a work of art.
From the source, then commander of the rescue unit and the only IDF soldier to fall in the raid.

Yoni, RIP.

http://www.yoni.org.il/eng_contents.htm
direct link to details on the raid:

http://www.yoni.org.il/eng_jonathan.htm


Reffering to specwarnet.com:
http://www.specwarnet.com/miscinfo/entebbe.htm

" The rescue at Entebbe is a classic example of a successful special operations. The Israelis used surprise and superior training to overcome their enemies and gain their objectives with a minimum loss of life. It was a logistically difficult mission. Thirty-five commandos in two Landrovers and a Mercedes with four APCs for firepower had to be transported over 2,200 miles and back again with over 100 hostages. The building the hostages were kept in was guarded by seven terrorists and an unknown number of Ugandan soldiers and was reported to be wired with explosives. "

If you have the oppurtunity, see "Operation Thunderbolt" in English.

NousDefionsDoc 07-13-2004 16:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
I just used the ones from the book. I guess it is no surprise that a SEAL focused on raids, eh?
And people say lawyers can't learn anything on discussion boards.:D

I am truly impressed RL. You've come a long way.

The Reaper 07-13-2004 17:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
I just used the ones from the book. I guess it is no surprise that a SEAL focused on raids, eh?
Man has got to go with what he knows. When the only tool you have is a hammer, all problems tend to look like nails.

You have to break out of the Tactical and into the Operational or Strategic level of conflict to have an enduring outcome. Take your thinking up a level or two, as it were.

I will admit that Eben Emael was a key objective, but it could have been laid siege to and taken conventionally. St. Nazaire took the dry dock away from the Nazi Battleships, but the Tirpitz would likely have met the same fate as the Bismarck (or been bombed in port) had it stayed in France. The Son Tay raid improved conditions for the POWs, and may have driven the NV to make additional concessions, but did little to end the war on our terms.

All of the ones you listed had little if any enduring effect. When you have a Spec Op decide a war, then you have significance.

Just my .02.

TR

Roguish Lawyer 07-13-2004 17:09

Do you gentlemen have a view on the greatest raid, viewed strictly from a tactical perspective?

hoepoe 07-13-2004 17:16

Indeed:

Thirty-five commandos in two Landrovers and a Mercedes with four APCs for firepower had to be transported over 2,200 miles and back again with over 100 hostages. The building the hostages were kept in was guarded by seven terrorists and an unknown number of Ugandan soldiers and was reported to be wired with explosives. "

Keep in mind, any combatants worst enemy was present, lack of intel.

I strongly advise taking the time to read the rescue details on Yoni's site. whether the greatest SO mission or not, this was one hell of a mission; to sneak into a far away land and impersonate the president; rescue the hostages and return with only one loss of life
(of a soldier) is impressive and very gutsy. 9i recall a civilin stood up and was killed too...)

It is because of iron balls like this that Israel stands today.

I don't think one mission can be singled out as "the greatest"....

Hoepoe

The Reaper 07-13-2004 17:21

Of the above listed, I would probably pick Skorzeny's rescue of Mussolini as the most significant, as it had the potential to recover an ally and turn the course of a war.

TR

hoepoe 07-13-2004 17:35

TR

How are you?

Very interesting indeed and with great consequence.

Skorzeny's biography

A dirty nazi, but indeed a good soldier.

http://auschwitz.dk/skorzeny.htm


Hoepoe

The Reaper 07-13-2004 17:52

Quote:

Originally posted by hoepoe
TR

How are you?

Very interesting indeed and with great consequence.

Skorzeny's biography

A dirty nazi, but indeed a good soldier.

http://auschwitz.dk/skorzeny.htm


Hoepoe

Doing well, thanks.

Consequences were not as great as they could have been, but the potential was there.

I think that Skorzeny would have been successful in any army that recognized his nerve and talent and gave him an opportunity.

His loyalty exceeded his humanity and sense of justice though, and his post war record is sullied.

Heck of a warrior, though.

TR

QRQ 30 07-13-2004 18:37

Quote:

Originally posted by The Reaper
Of the above listed, I would probably pick Skorzeny's rescue of Mussolini as the most significant, as it had the potential to recover an ally and turn the course of a war.

TR

I agree TR. To me Skorzeny was the ultimate commando. Allied forces deployed mass resources on account of him similar to the effect of SOG on the NVA.

NousDefionsDoc 07-13-2004 19:23

Well, if we're being all strategicalful and what not, I'm going to go with a few:
1. The Doolittle Raid
2. The whole A bomb thing, from R&D through deployment
3. The 'Stan that Reaper was talking about before - I think this is going to have far reaching change for a long time to come. Not to mention that their sucess allowed us to open a 2nd front as soon as conventionals could be deployed.

Raids (from an operator view)
1. Skorzeny's op
2. The Raid (Son Tay) second only because there weren't any prisoners. However in my view as a shooter it was a complete sucess once they opened the cells and exfilled without a loss.
3. Entebbe - 3rd because they lost a future PM of Israel. Yoni was, from all accounts I read, a true warrior.

Roguish Lawyer 07-13-2004 19:35

Quote:

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Well, if we're being all strategicalful and what not, I'm going to go with a few:
1. The Doolittle Raid
2. The whole A bomb thing, from R&D through deployment

Next thing you know, you're going to be listing tank battles too. LMAO

NousDefionsDoc 07-13-2004 19:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Next thing you know, you're going to be listing tank battles too. LMAO
I am prepared to defend my choices lawyer boy. I just can't do it until Friday. The connection here is too slow.:D


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