Army Immerses Soldiers in Weaponry
 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...8JO9R800.shtml

Army Immerses Soldiers in Weaponry
Army makes soldiers get comfortable carrying weapons, hoping to reduce accidental discharges

PETERSBURG, Va., Aug. 26, 2006
By MICHAEL FELBERBAUM Associated Press Writer
(AP) In the early months of the war in Iraq, Army Spc. Paul J. Sturino was getting ready for guard duty one day when another soldier accidentally fired a bullet into his neck.

"Somehow it went off," his mother Christine Wetzel said as she recounted the official reports documenting her 21-year-old son's death on Sept. 22, 2003.

"I just think we're sending young, young people into situations that they're not ready for," she said from her home in Rice Lake, Wis. "They're inexperienced with weapons. ... Things happen and we pay the price."

The Army has begun taking steps to reduce accidental discharges through a new weapons immersion program fully implemented this year throughout the Army's 16 training facilities.

Sturino, assigned to the 101st Airborne Division based at Fort Campbell, Ky., was one of 21 soldiers killed by accidental discharges in the combat zones of Iraq and Afghanistan since 2003, according to the Army's Combat Readiness Center. Eighty-nine others were injured.

"Losing one U.S. soldier because of a negligent discharge or not handling the weapon right is one too many," said Col. Paul Fortune, commander of the 23rd Quartermaster Brigade at Fort Lee, near Petersburg and 25 miles south of Richmond.

Under the new program, "We put the weapon in the hands of the soldier as soon as possible to give them an opportunity to be familiar with how the weapon operates," Fortune said.

...more at the link


What a novel concept....

I wish it had never taken twenty-one deaths to do it but I guess that is how it works.

This is the result of taking weapons and live ammo out of their hands during peacetime for the previous 30 years or so.

Glad to hear that they are finally taking action.

RIP, Specialist.

TR

Peacetime mentality...
 

When I was in my last combat deployment in CENTCOM (the last eight months), I spent some time in one of our major bases south of the country. It was filled mostly with thousands of conventional folks (to include Coalition units) and us few SF shooters (less than the size of an infantry company). There was a crazy policy that required that no soldiers could carry their weapons loaded inside the base. So, everyone was carrying around their weapons with no magazines inside. It was pretty crazy considering that hundreds of the host nation workers saw this practice everyday. Obviously, the practice was no secret to the bad guys.

The only ones that carried their weapons loaded were us (SOF). The "no-magazine-in-your-weapon" policy was mandated by the Coalition conventional forces commander (a general officer - not US) because - according to a Tier 1 SOF unit officer from that same country's military - they had way too many ADs and NDs among their troops (that country's troops). Unfortunately, this policy was a blanket that covered US forces within this base as the Coalition general had command of the base. Of course, our own SF command was adamant that if we were going to carry weapons, it was going to be to be able to use them. So, we were technically breaking the policy. But, heck, we were not there to "make corn flakes".

I think that the safest thing that we do in the unit is that we get used to live weapons. I don't remember too many times that I have not had a round in the chamber when carrying my primary and secondary weapons while in SF. We are also very comfortable shooting in close proximity of one another. I don't recall us ever having any safety-related injuries because of negligence while carrying a loaded weapon. When I read news like the one that started this thread it makes me glad I am where I am at and sad that the other side of the fence has not completely figured it out yet when it comes to some very basic stuff.

One in battery
 

I was told a story regarding a certain 82nd ABN trooper that had chambered an HE 40mm in the 203 in Afghan. Leaving it in battery till he got back to base camp. He decided to pull the trigger, thus blowing up a conex :eek: This was told to me by another member of the 82nd when he returned home.

When ever I see pictures of troops other than "QP's" I observe some if not many of the pics with thier fingers inside the trigger well, not indexed. :eek:

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! As one who has carried a weapon for the majority of my life that is outrageous to hear-and I believe you!!

Yeah, that drives me up the wall, seeing some soldier on a long patrol start playing with his selector lever, switching from safe to repitition or randomly putting a finger inside the trigger guard.

I think it would be beneficial to teach them how to respect the rifle and its capabilities rather than fear the reprecutions of a junk charge parade.

When I went through Basic at Benning in 2004 my company kept our weapons out of the Arms room the entire time. We were issued them on the first day and they were kept at the ends of our beds at night so that the firegaurd could count them twice per shift at night. Our DS's were very critical of our handling weapons. I think that this system did a lot to help prepare us for eventual deployments. I've been told that it has become standard practice in all Army Basic Training.

Doc:

This isn't the half of it. It has taken about five years for most units on Fort Lewis to stop lining their ranges and helmets with engineer tape. Some still do though. My view is that the linear feet of white engineer tape found on a range is inversely proportional to the ability of the NCOs of that unit to train their soldiers to be sound marksmen. White engineer tape, red paddles, NCOs screaming at soldiers if they touch their rifles while on a firing line. I would relieve every single one of them for cause on the spot. I would call it "Stupidity in the Face of Reality".

Oh yes, it isn't the Officer Corps telling them to be morons either. At first I thought it was but after five years of daily work with this stuff, it isn't the Officer Corps. It is the NCO corps who are terrified to leave their comfort zone. This isn't meant as an insult here -- it is an absolute fact over 90 percent of the time.

As for running hot lines -- well that one is done at the right time when Joe has developed a solid belief that the training will be professionally focused. Once again it is how the leaders approach the training that makes the difference in how Joe views SA and MA. "SAMA" -- just invented an acronym of sorts.

Also, read some local regulations concerning the handling of ammunition on Army posts in CONUS. These rules were invented by bureaucrats over about seventy years and are based on 'looking good' over 'good performance'. Many of them date back to the pre WW II era and weren't any more relevant to training then as today. Looking good over being good has been a hallmark of Army small arms training for years.

The issue is whether a unit ignores moronic rules invented in the 1930's or obeys them. My experience over 30 years? Any TOE unit will break at least five local regulations and two Army regulations in order to conduct any firing of any weapon on any range. This includes zero and qualify. No unit can obey every rule invented by now long since dead bureaucrats and even make it to a firing range, let alone train.

Here is one for you. I have fifteen or twenty others as well but this one has always interested me. Smoking on a firing range. OK -- there is a major two lane highway through Fort Lewis called 'East Gate Road'. Major route from the communities east of Fort Lewis to main post. 45 MPH with heavy traffic. Ranges line this road oriented towards the North. So you drive down this road and see white engineer tape in little five foot square boxes, staked in with those stupid orange pup-tent stakes -- on the south side (opposite side) of the road from the ranges. These are the 'designated smoking areas'. Why? Because some moron who knows zero about ammunition thinks that by osmosis a cigarette ash will detonate a case of ammo that is still in a steel ammo box in a wooden crate.

They make Joe walk across a very busy high-speed highway to smoke a cigarette in a little white engineer tape box. This is the mentality of some units. Lord Have Mercy if I was the I Corps Commander, knowing what I know about the mentality of some of his units. I would have to have a bus full of NCOs and Officers from SGT through LTC drive behind me for reasons most of you who were in the Army will understand. Let me assure you, there would be another bus along as well -- an empty one ready for those who would be reileved on the spot for threatening the lives of their soldiers, gross neglingence, incompetence, and basic stupidity in the face of reality.

The single major inhibitor to professional and battle focused small arms training in the Army today is fear combined with the right levels of command who have failed to train their eyes to see.

Gene

If I may add my $.02, gentlemen: as a former conventional Army NCO, I must most unforunately concur. It isn't the Officer Corps that is is to be blamed for these problems, by any means; it isn't their responsibility to ensure soldiers can do their job. It's the NCOs' job.

Again, I preface this with the note that I refer to conventional Army, only. I have no experience with our SOF brethren and teachers save the occasional chance meeting or interaction and wouldn't venture to profess an opinion on them other than my respect for their actions, accomplishments and sacrifices.

NCOs, in my experience, have begun to fail in their missions wrt soldiers. Our soldiers, relative to what I think may be possible (as inexperienced and lacking in knowledge as I am), are not prepared for war. I, myself, admittedly was afraid of my weapon. I knew that it, of itself, did nothing. But I had only enough experience, practice, and knowledge of it that I was more a danger to myself and my compatriots than to our enemies. NCOs need to stand up and truly accept the responsibility that comes with being "The Backbone of the Army".

"No one is more Professional than I. I am a Noncommissioned Officer...

... My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind -- accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my Soldiers. I will strive to remain tactically and technically proficient. I am aware of my role as a Noncommisioned Officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All Soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership."

--- Excerpts from the NCO Creed.

The Officer Corps and senior leaders of the Army should not be forced to enforce the training and standards of our soldiers. That's an NCO's job. Back to lurking.

Army Immerses Soldiers in Weaponry
 

This thread reminded me of when I was a drill sgt. Esspecilly the zero range.
Training inspectors would look at the present for training on the status report.
Then they would count the weapons online and the number of grounded weapons. :D


BMT

Carrying weapons unloaded is a Technical Solution for a Training Problem.

The Three Round Burst feature on the M16A2 was the same thing.

Instead of spending time and money training folks correctly let's just invent something technical or some rule that makes it so we don't have to. :confused:

No Ammo, No Brass Drill SGT.

Do they still insert cleaning rods down the muzzle of the rifle to check if it's loaded? I bet that would really hurt if it went off.

Not if your hand is not over the end of the rod.

Always hold it from the side.

TR

I always thought the weapon was inspected bolt back, magazine out coming off the range ...