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Hi, I've search this site and consulted AR 40-501, but I could not find the answer to my question. I know that you are allowed to wear glasses in SF training and in the Groups (but only up to +/- 8.00 diopters). My question, though, is a little different--
I went to MEPS in Dec 2005 and on my eye exam I scored a -7.50 diopters in my right eye and a -6.75 in my left; (they also said I have 20/400 distant vision, 20/200 near vision, and both are correctable to 20/20 [it's the same for both eyes]). I signed a 11x/Opt. 40 contract with a SF option, but in Jan 2006 I renegotiated to a 18x contract (they said I was qualified because my eyes were correctable to 20/20).
However, right now I wear glasses with a -8.25 and -7.75 prescription. I ship out July 12th, and I'm worried they could get even worse by then! My question is: if I score worse than -8.00 on my eye exam upon arriving at OSUT, will they void my 18x contract, disqualify me for SF training, and re-assign me wherever the Army chooses?
Thank you very much for your time,
Aaron

PS on my MEPS eye exam, I squinted a little bit because I was worried that I would get turned down... but I don't want to squint in the OSUT eye exam because that will screw up the prescription of the glasses they give me, and I won't be able to see as clearly

Perhaps this is what you are looking for.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...n+requirements

Thank you, Sten, for your reply. I actually came across that thread in my research, which is how I got informed of AR 40-501, which I then consulted.
So what you are saying is that if I score worse than a -8.00 on my eye exam at OSUT, my contract will no longer be valid. I guess I just wasn't sure if the Army could do that or not, after signing the final contract at MEPS when shipping out and all... Would that mean I am discharged? (since the contract I signed and the conditions I agreed under which to enlist would no longer be valid)

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron

I am not saying anything. I was just providing a link for you. The only advise I would dare to give you is call your recruiter ASAP.

I asked my recruiter and he kind of danced around the subject, and basically told me not to worry about it... I don't know if I'll be able to not worry about it, though, but I guess I'll have to try... I just don't want to get disqualified

aaron:

Face it, son. You are legally blind.

As big as your heart might be and as badly as your recruiter needs the catch, you will not be an asset to your team if they have to fetch you a dog and a cane every time your glasses break.

Do not cheat, do not lie. Do the best that you can.

Good luck.

TR

Aaron,
As a Marine with very bad eyes (-8.50 dio.), I can sympathize with your situation. However, there are waivers available. I was initially dq'ed from military service until a waiver came thru. As per the advice you were given, research the topic as much as you can. I would also suggest you consulting with an SF recruiter who may know more than what your recruiter may know. Also, I know the Marines as (of 3 years ago) when I was in were doing the lasik surgery for as many personnel as they could with critical MOS's. However, I would not know what the Army/SF policy is on the subject of corrective surgery. I plan on joining the Army as well within the next year and too would like to try for SF. Please feel free to PM me with any info you come up with and I in turn will do the same for you if I find anything useful out.
Regards,
0311

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile0311

0311:

You might want to do some reading of the stickies and introductions before posting further.

I would recommend that you not dispense advice to potential SF personnel here, since there are quite a few people here who do know the answer, and you are not among them.

If you have had LASIK before going SF, you are DQed for SF according to our medical standards which are described elsewhere here.

Have a very SF day.

TR

The only option would be to get the Lasik before going in and just not telling anybody. Sure you are not being honest but many "unknown" great war heros through history have lied to serve before.

People in Italy lied about their age to get in, so i guess its not as bad :( Its always been a dream of mine to be a Ranger or SF, i will not allow my eye-sight to stop that. I will find a way.

My career as a civilian is a EMT-I, instead of saving lives of illegals, and hippies id rather help save lives of heros.

Dont make snide posts in the future that do not benefit the thread -Crip

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralLeo (Post 186060)

OK, SPORT!!!

First you need to READ the e-mail that you received when you registered!!!!!

Then, READ ALL of the Stickies at the TOP of the Forums!!!

Then, you will post an entry in the Intro Thread!!!

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...=13758&page=24

And LASTLY, YOU WILL CEASE TO DISPENSE ANY ADVICE ON THIS SITE!!!

You obviously are NOT A QP!!!

You will not like MY Warning Shot!!!

HAVE A VERY SF DAY!!!
Martin

When I first got to SF I had horrible eyesite, 20/600. A few years ago I got LASEK and I am currently holding steady at 20/20 in one eye and 20/15 in the other. As has been said talk to an SF recruiter about your options. You may have to do it on your own dime prior to enlisting. I applaud your desire to join. If the SF Recruiter say's no you can't enlist ask him if you would be able to enlist if you got the surgery done would you then be able to ask. Be sure you only get the procedures that are approved for use for SF. When I had it done we could not have LASIK but both PRK and LASEK were approved.

Just be sure your SF recruiter is in the loop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralLeo (Post 186060)

Hey, "General".

The LASIK will be visible to the person conducting the eye exam and you will likely be terminated for lying on your physical, since it will be highly unlikely that you would not have been aware of that surgery.

Since you have failed to read the instructions you were given upon arrival, or to read the stickies that explain our board, or to heed the numerous warnings for non-qualified personnel to avoid dispensing advice, lack the integrity we are looking for in prospective SF soldiers, and have the situational awareness of a rock, you should probably just stick with your day job.

I do not believe that you are salvagable here, and clearly do not want to be a contributing guest of value.

TR

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper (Post 186093)

I don't want to step on my own crank here, or contradict anyone in anyway but i have a bit of info that may be helpful here. I personally had LASIK before joining the army, prior to joining I had very little knowledge of SF and therefore hadn't even considered the possibility, so i found that LASIK would not disqualify me from service. It wasn't until assembling my selection packet did the LASIK issue come into play, which still didn't disqualify me from SF only from HALO and SCUBA. When i went for my SFAS physical i took in my entire workup and made it known that i had indeed had LASIK and it was not a problem. We as in the US Army are behind the power curve when it comes to the LASIK issue. Individuals with LASIK who are SEALS are eligible for HALO and dive ops, but the SF surgeon will not sign off on 18 series individuals for either school. Currently there is a study being done of civilian skydivers with LASIK so hopefully some good will come of this and individuals with LASIK will be allowed to go to these schools. But the bottom line is that LASIK does not disqualify you from SF, but my recommendation would be PRK, or LASEK to avoid that ass pain. Hopefully this helped out, and as The Reaper said don't be a no integrity dirt bag and lie.

VR,
Mike

Mike:

This topic has been flogged extensively here on repeated occasions.

We usually like for the kids to do their own research, and base it off the definitive references.

In this case, AR 40-501 is the definite answer, less any waivers, as we have informed them elsewhere:

Quote:

2–12. Eyes
a. Lids.
(1) Current blepharitis (373), chronic or acute, until cured (373.00), is disqualifying.
(2) Current blepharospasm (333.81) is disqualifying.
(3) Current dacryocystitis, acute or chronic (375.30) is disqualifying.
(4) Deformity of the lids (374.4), complete or extensive lid deformity, sufficient to interfere with vision or impair protection of the eye from exposure is disqualifying.
(5) Current growths or tumors of the eyelid, other than small, non-progressive, asymptomatic, benign lesions, are disqualifying.
b. Conjunctiva.
(1) Current chronic conjunctivitis (372.1), including, but not limited to trachoma (076) and chronic allergic conjunctivitis (372.14), is disqualifying.
(2) Current or recurrent pterygium, (372.4), if condition encroaches on the cornea in excess of 3 mm, or interferes with vision, or is a progressive peripheral pterygium (372.42), or recurring pterygium after two operative procedures (372.45), is disqualifying.
(3) Current xerophthalmia (372.53) is disqualifying.
c. Cornea.
(1) Current or history of corneal dystrophy of any type (371.5), including but not limited to keratoconus (371.6) of any degree is disqualifying.
(2) History of refractive surgery including, but not limited to: Lamellar (P11.7) and/or penetrating keratoplasty (P11.6). Radial Keratotomy and Astigmatic Keratotomy is disqualifying. Refractive surgery performed with an Excimer
Laser, including but not limited to, Photorefractive Keratectomy (commonly known as PRK), Laser Epithelial Keratomileusis (commonly known as LASEK), and Laser-Assisted in situ Keratomileusis (commonly known as LASIK) (P11.7) is disqualifying if any of the following conditions are met:
(a) Pre-surgical refractive error in either eye exceeds + 8.00 to - 8.00 diopters.
(b) At least 6 months recovery period has not occurred between last refractive surgery or augmenting procedure and accession medical examination.
(c) There have been complications, and/or medications or ophthalmic solutions are required.
(d) Post-surgical refraction in each eye is not stable as demonstrated by—
1. At least two separate refractions at least one month apart, the most recent of which demonstrates more than +/-0.50 diopters difference for spherical vision and/or more than +/- 0.25 diopters for cylinder vision; and
2. At least 3 months recovery has not occurred between the last refractive surgery or augmenting procedure and one of the comparison refractions.

5–3. Medical fitness standards for initial selection for Airborne training, Ranger training, and Special Forces training, and Reconnaissance and Surveillance Leaders Course training
The causes of medical unfitness for initial selection for Airborne training, Ranger training, Special Forces, and Reconnaissance and Surveillance Leaders Course (RSLC) training are all the causes listed in chapter 2, plus all the
causes listed in this paragraph and paragraphs 5–4 and 5–6.

g. Eyes and vision.
(1) Paragraphs 2–12 and 2–13 with exceptions noted below.
(2) For Airborne and Ranger training: Distant visual acuity of any degree that does not correct to at least 20/20 in one eye and 20/100 in the other eye within 8 diopters of plus or minus refractive error, with spectacle lenses.
(3) For Special Forces training: Distant visual acuity of any degree that does not correct to 20/20 in both eyes with spectacle lenses. Any refractive error in spherical equivalent of worse than plus or minus 8 diopters.
(4) For Airborne and Special Forces training: Failure to pass the PIP set or FALANT test for color vision (see para 4–2a) unless the applicant is able to identify vivid red and/or vivid green as projected by the Ophthalmological
Projector or the Stereoscope, Vision Testing (SVT).

5–6. Medical fitness standards for initial selection for free fall parachute training
The causes of medical unfitness for initial selection for free fall parachute training are the causes listed in chapter 2 plus the causes listed in this paragraph and in paragraph 5–3.

g. Eyes and vision.
(1) Paragraphs 2–12 and 2–13, with exceptions noted in (2) and (3) below.
(2) Uncorrected near visual acuity (14 inches) of worse than 20/50 in the better eye. Uncorrected distant visual acuity of worse than 20/100 in either eye. Distant vision that does not correct to 20/20 in both eyes with spectacle
lenses. Any refractive error worse than plus or minus 8 diopters.
(3) Failure to pass the PIP or FALANT test for color vision unless the applicant is able to identify vivid red and vivid green as projected by the Ophthalmological Projector or the SVT.
(4) Any history of Laser-Assisted in situ Keratomileusis (LASIK) surgery is disqualifying.

5–9. Medical fitness standards for initial selection for marine diving training (Special Forces and Ranger combat diving)
The causes of medical unfitness for initial selection for marine self-contained underwater breathing apparatus (SCUBA) diving training are the causes listed in chapter 2, plus the following:

g. Eyes and vision.
(1) Paragraphs 2–12 and 2–13, with exceptions noted in (2) and (3) below.
(2) Distant visual acuity that does not correct to 20/20 in both eyes with spectacle lenses. Any refractive error in spherical equivalent of worse than plus or minus 8 diopters.
(3) Failure to pass the PIP set or FALANT test for color vision unless the applicant is able to identify vivid red and/or vivid green as projected by the Ophthalmological Projector or the SVT.
(4) Any history of Laser-Assisted in Situ Keratomileusis (LASIK) surgery is disqualifying.

Appreciate your assistance, but there is no need to revive all of these old threads unless something has substantively changed.

GeneralLeo's question, to which I responded, asked if he should just get the surgery, and lie about it.

I stand by my original answer.

TR