It occurs to me that in a disaster, there are going to be a lot of hungry people from here after the brevity of the food discussion, but if you guys are ready to move on, so be it. The next topic listed was sanitation. That is not just washing clothes, but includes waste disposal (both garbage and bodily waste), body sanitation, personal hygiene, household cleaning (of potentially contaminated materials or patients) with a limited supply of materials, is going to be a real challenge.

Frankly, I wish there was a way to get the 5 gallon buckets or Superpails of hard white wheat, beans, powdered milk, sugar, etc. delivered to the East Coast for less than the cost of the product, but that appears to be a briddge too far. I got a great deal on a hand/electric mill, but seem to be unable to get a good price on delivered things to grind in it. Working on it, but not much success thus far. Has anyone in the mid-Atlantic had success with this problem?

I also have been toying with a vacuum sealer and will soon be using it to can quart jars of dry foods for extended storage. The wife likes the way it vacuum seals bottles of white wine so that they do not go bad in a few days.

I have a few freeze-dried meals and some MREs, but that is only adequate for a few weeks unless you are rich or deployed with a never ending supply of them. It would be acceptable if you knew that you were only going to have to be ready for two to three two-week cycles of limited to no supply before things returned to normal. The problem is that once the crisis is over (assuming that the knuckleheads do not burn, destroy, or loot the fixtures from every store in the area) almost everyone will start to buy excessive amounts of supplies and hoard the food that the stores do manage to get in, further exacerbating the shortages. I have seen this overseas, during disasters in CONUS, and anyone south of the Mason-Dixon line has seen it anytime the weatherman predicts any amount of snow, however slight. I also lack the storage space for a years worth of MREs for a family of four.

A multi-layered system of preparedness is the solution, with stockpiles of regular food, freeze-dried, prepackaged or shelf stable (like MREs), bulk commodities (like the Superpails or dry goods), and as a final resort seeds, traps and snares, a good .22LR, etc. forming a tiered solution-set for dealing with long-term food requirements. You will need the appropriate cooking containers properly suited to you=our Add to it as your budget allows. Don't wait too long to get started.

Like many, I can afford to lose 25 pounds over a month or two. How many want to see their kids losing that kind of weight, or crying themselves to sleep at night as they are hungry and starving? We are only a few days from that possibility at any given time. Look at your preparations, then at your cupboard, and think about it. If every town in the US was like New Orleans after Katrina (minus the flooding), where do you think the help will come from? Sad fact: It probably isn't coming. You need to be prepared to live for as long as you can with what you have, for several months or more.

Be prepared or be sorry when it is too late.

TR

It is my understanding that the shelf life of properly made summer sausage is a long time but internet searching turns up a variety of answers. I'm pretty sure that storeed in a cool dry place like hanging it under my stairs it would be fine for the winter. Would vacuum sealing it add to the shelf life or harm the sausage by not allowing it to breath? Normally I cut them in half and freeze until I want to get more out.

Reason I ask is 1 doe dropped off at the Amish village makes an enormous amount of summer sausage for very little cost. The jerky is $3.75 per lb but like wise has a very long shelf life stored in a brown paper bag. Since in KY I can kill 4 deer per season I could be up to my ears in summer sausage rather cheaply with a never ending supply of friends who would like to have some. Not to mention all the deployed troops I like to send it out to.

As far as fresh meat goes I seem to have a never ending supply of squirrels here at my house. :D

I found this site some time back. They carry dried food stuff and appliances.

www.pleasanthillgrain.com/

Because we live rural, we are probably good for 60 days on food. I have been adding to the food stock, food with very long shelf life to add to that time limit.

One aspect of being able to stock food, is that we can take advantages of sales and over the long run we cut our food cost down by at least 30%.

Other aspect I have been looking at is setting up the homestead to be more self sufficient.

I was told years ago by someone in the "business" of canned and deydrated foods on how to "do it yourself" food storage using buckets that have sealing lids. He told me that you can do this for any of the grains and beans.

Buy them at bulk from a warhouse club. By the buckets at oher places on the internet. Then go out and buy dry ice. He advised to fill the bucket to 4/5's full with say lima beans. He said to then take an amount (the amount will depend on the bucket size) of dry ice and place it on top of the the beans and cover the beans with a lid, leaving enough space for the oxygen to purge. Check it frequently and when the dry ice is almost gone, you seal the bucket. He stated that the CO2 will drop lower than the oxygen and force it out of the bucket. I suppose you could also do this with Nitrogen and using Mylar instead of the buckets. Maybe use the Mylar first then place them in the bucket(s). He also told me that this process will remove most if not all of the moisture too.

I am not sure if this would work right or not. Would anybody know for sure?

By the way if this has been discussed here before PLEASE forgive me. This thread is, well, HUMUNGUS and I didn't take the proper time to go back and re-read. :eek:

My family me excluded, can eat ordinary MRE's if need be so I should probably stock up on a few more cases. That and canned meats and potatoes. I have been sorting my items for that "emergency" and came across two cases of the "Cold Rations". The contents don't look to be that bad and actually sound like they'd be pleasing to eat in an "emergency". I also found two(2) boxes of "HOOAH" Bars that I didn't know I had either. By the way, are these of any value nutritionally and storage wise?

I too could stand to loose 25+ pounds, but it would just kill me to see my family starve. That on top of the thought of what I could become when pushed to desperation in order to feed them. :(

Check this ste
 

Check this site about O2 absorbers, Diatomaceous earth, Mylar bags, 6 gallon pails, lids, etc. Some good info to nose around in.

http://www.survivalunlimited.com/buckets.htm

12-18 gallons of rice is cheap and would stretch other foods a loooong way.

Pete

Great thread here. I was on the ground in the aftermath of RITA.

What fun.

Here is a picture of Holly Beach Louisiana just across the river from us.

http://i14.tinypic.com/4cw7eat.jpg

The info here is solid.

Thanks.

Pete thanks, that is what I am looking for. I mix rice with Chilli, lima beans, chicken broth, hamburger, soups, etc., etc. I guess I should go out and but a "rice" Boat!:D I am afraid to tell you how much Rice I go through in a weeks period. Bet you can't guess it?

Broaodsword2004, the only problem with this is that it means allot more liquid intake then would be possible during a disaster. Just my HO.

Anyone here in the weather affected portion of the country right now?

Hope you were ready and up to date with your plans and prep.

Let us know how you fared, as soon as you can.

For bulk storage of food, the Superpails with the Gamma screw on replacement lids and sealed Mylar liners with oxygen absorbers are the best way to go for longer term storage.

TR

Well Chicago didn't have it as bad as some folks in the midwest, at least in my particular suburb. First the freezing rain (with thunder!) then we got about 7 of the 12" of snow they predicted; up north and west of me they had a foot or better. In advance I stocked up on food, water, a bit of cash on hand, cell phone charged up and had candles etc in case I lost power. Blanket, extra gloves, scarf etc in the car just in case. I only drive 1 mile to work now, but hey better to have this stuff on hand at all times anyway.

Streets weren't plowed very well so it was slow going to work this morning but I allowed extra time and made it there in one piece. I did manage to get stuck in my apartment complex lot as they didn't bother to plow, (and when they do it's not the best job) but 3 burly guys got me squared away. Probably more of a selfish motive on their part seeing as I was blocking their way out. :D

Then there was the guy who somehow got hung up on the RR tracks across from my building...saw that and took another route. (Yes he eventually made it across the tracks before a train came through)

Glad to hear that you are okay.

I would be very careful with the candles and would consider a lantern or some less dangerous illumination system. Consider keeping an LED flashlight handy for noises in the night and get a Photon MicroLight for your keychain or put one on a retractable security badge reel for your purse.

Be safe!

TR

Thanks TR! Roger on the candles. I do have a couple of good strong flashlights, (2 is one and 1 is none :D ) batteries and a micro on the key chain which I love. Good idea for the lantern though, much safer.

I think adding a shovel is top of the list tomorrow. Had one and I think it got lost in my move. Too much "black ice" on the roads yet tonight so I came home straight away instead of stopping for one.

Gypsy

Don't forget to carry a bag of salt or sand in the trunk.

A

Oh yes, good point A. I do have a bag of salt in the trunk.

Down in SW Missouri we made out ok, or at lest my loved ones and myself. We had the ice then snow mix which is making it hard for the state and city to clear but we are fine.

When the info hit me that this was going to be for real I felt the need to “run around” and get ready but I guess a mix of this thread and my own preparations and lifestyle made this “running around” pointless. I was thinking of tons of things “I should get read”, but every time I when to check the stock of this or the placement of that… it was already there, so I went to get just a few basics, gas and bread… ended up only needing 4.5 gallons or so, and that was filling up to the top of the fill tube.

Like I said we didn’t fine our selves snowed in completely or anything, but I think we would have been fine.

We did loss power for a few hours at the girlfriends apartment, but I hung some LED micro lights that have click on buttons, not the ones you have to hold in your teeth, from the ceiling in the living room and we were GTG.

Thanks everyone for the info in this thread, lets keep it alive so we can all learn from each other before one of us or all of us really need it.

JPH

We have touched on this before, but it bears repeating.

You have to do a good analysis of what your threats are with respect to likelihood and severity and make plans accordingly.

Location is one major factor. If you are living in So Cal, a wind driven event is unlikely. In South Florida, an earthquake is pretty low on the list to be concerned about.

Seasonal events are another. This time of year, a winter weather disaster is much more likely than a hurricane or tornado.

If I lived in the UP of Michigan, I would be a lot more concerned right now about shelter and warmth than if I lived in Arizona, where potable water might be a higher priority.

Never forget that among the most likely and catastrophic disasters are manmade, like house fires, car accidents, crime, and health events like heart attacks. They are much more likely than the TEOTWAWKI scenarios. There is little better use of your time in preparing for disasters than a good assessment (followed by miitigation or appropriate training) of your fire risk, driving skills, vehicles, and their maintenance, crime prevention posture (the cops will normally do an assessment of your home for free), and taking care of your health and meds, to include taking CPR, PHTLS, or TCCC training.

You should not acquire firearms for defense unless you can honestly state that you are willing to take another human's life to save your own or another's. If you are, don't just collect them, learn to use them effectively. You would be much better off with one firearm that you use well than a closet full but are a threat to yourself and others with them. I would much rather have a neighbor hitting what he was aiming at than dumping a mag out the window at noises in the night. If you are not willing to use them, better not to have them around to be used on you.

Those who have experienced a disaster, lost power, or been stranded (even in an airport) should feel free to chime in with what was good and bad about their plans, preparations, and gear. It could be very beneficial to someone else.

TR

I knew what CPR and PHTLS stood for (Prehospital Trauma Life Support)

I believe PHTLS is for advanced practice EMTs and EMT-Ps and that BTLS (Basic Trauma Life Support) is the entry level class for regular EMT's and First Responders.

I will admit I had to google what the last class was:

Tactical Combat Casualty Care

Anybody have anymore advice, information, experiences, etc., etc? This thread should not die.

Got a ton of it, but I am tired of being the only one contributing.

Others need to step up and offer their opinions.

If Mr. Kim had been a reader of this thread, I doubt he would have gotten lost, or died.

TR

TR:

I was talking to my girlfriend about Mr Kim this afternoon and mentioned this very thread to her with the same comment. He'd have had a fighting chance if he read a tenth of the information posted here.

I'm going to see if I can come up with some info on how to keep anything fresh long term; that's what's got me stumped at this time.

I’ll step up and contribute to the emergency/survival ration question, but it took time to build my bunker. Fruitcake. (It is that time of year.)

I’m serious, but I hear the distant thump of incoming indirect so I’m defilade.

Pat, out!

I'm going to address this question from my personal situation. Obviously, that won't work for all, but it may give some ideas of alternatives that are appropriate for others.

In High School and College, I worked summers for a local farmer who raised corn, soybeans, had some chickens and some pigs (the latter for his family's consumption, not for sale) and some milk cows. For all intensive purposes, the farm had the capability to be self-sufficient if necessary (or at least far more so than most), and I had developed skills that would hopefully make me an asset to the owner of that farm.

Since that time, each time I have lived somewhere (except for my time in the service), I have looked for a similar situation within possible travel distance, somewhere that sustenance farming is possible and where I could be an asset to the people who hold the land (possibly helping them to hold the land).

My current situation makes that easier. Most of Thailand is still rural and most farms are still arranged as sustenance plus (meaning they provide the needs for sustenance of their owners, and sell the surplus in one crop, usually rice). My in-laws own a very large farm that operates in this manner. They grow rice and corn for sale, but also have various fruit trees, cows, water buffalo, dogs, pigs, chickens and even raise shrimp and fish for their own use. I can and have been useful to them in dealing with the corn, cows and dogs... and should the worst sort of collapse occur, hopefully could be of help in defending the farm and its products.

Preparation can be more than physical preparation, it can also be cultivating relationships and allies that could make a difference in hard times.

Then let's break it up by theme. Such as Be Prepared for:

Be Prepared for lost alone while hunting.
Be Prepared: Lost in auto with family. Lost in cold, wet temperate forest, lost in hot dry desert, lost in snow, etc etc.

I'm sure everyone can think of a situation they'd like to know about. Ask and we'll chat about each and every one.

We can also start a forum such as "Be Prepared" with sub topics.

Thoughts?

TS

Prepared vs Fieldcraft
 

I see the two issues as going hand in hand.

Prepared is looking ahead and planning for potential problems while fieldcraft is the ability to put the preparations into action.

As with Mr Kim, a small get-away bag in the trunk of the car that contained a small tarp/plastic sheet, some foil emergency blankets, one surplus wool blend blanket, candles, matches, soup mixes, small pot, signal mirror, road flares and a few odds and ends to fill up a gym size bag would have helped their situation.

They would have been able to move out of the car and set up a make-do shelter under the small trees. This would have saved the gas and tires allowing them to drive out when the snow had melted. If you notice from the pictures, the roads were almost clear and melting fast when the car was found.

Pete

"Frankly, I wish there was a way to get the 5 gallon buckets or Superpails of hard white wheat, beans, powdered milk, sugar, etc"

Would it be too expensive to make something like that yourself?

I was thinking about this over the weekend. How about vacuum bagging rice (for example). Several bags of a certain amount that you think you'll need. Place that all in a five gallon bucket and seal that.

When you have to open the bucket, it's all pre-packaged and ready to go. Maybe if you can't reseal the bags, you can have a small container to put the loose food into for use.

I've been looking into vacuum sealers for a while now. I think they'd be a nice addition for storing food.

I have a vacuum sealer and some five gallon buckets, and know where to get oxygen absorbers. I also understand that local LDS churches have canneries and let outsiders use them when they do not need them.

The problem is that you have to have the stuff that you are going to seal on hand.

Since I am not making powdered milk, or granulated sugar, or processed hard white wheat, or dried pintos, you still have to get them shipped to you, which might as well be in the final packed configuration. Shipping charges are horrendous. The alternative is that I understand if you buty a minimum amount, they periodically send trucks out on the circuit route for semi-local deliveries, but the chearges are only reduced somewhat, and am not able to fill half of my garage with bulk food.

Anything that you can get in bulk locally could be packed as you suggest fairly easily, packing materials (buckets, bags, absorbers, etc.) and instructions are available online.

I suppose that you could configure buckets with a variety of staples configured as you desire (making acquisition easier as well), but I have not seen that done before. For maximum shelf life, the products still need to be kept in a cool, climate controlled environment, like a basement.

Good thinking though.

TR

Vacuum Seals
 

Just something to remember when vacuum sealing. Once you suck it down it will be as hard as a rock.

Bulk storage of one mylar bag and a 6 gal. bucket will fill just about every square inch of space. A number of smaller irregular vacuum sealed bags would fill the same space but have less volume due to voids.

The technique used should be tailored to the individual's needs.

Pete

Who vacuum sealed many a cloth item for a sub-surface swim using plastic bags and a boat foot pump.

Pete:

Roger that.

Sharp or pointed items (like grain) will puncture most plastic bags, even without vacuum packing, that is why they use a good quality Mylar bag for vacuum packing bulk food inside the buckets.

TR

I have no idea if this will work with other grains (it does work with rice and dry pasta) but the following is how Thai farmers store rice long-term for their own use.

Take a lidded plastic garbage can.

Fill it 80% full (approximately) with rice grain.

Add enough chili-peppers to cover half of the remaining space.

Stir the chili peppers into the rice (so they are fairly uniformly dispersed throughout the container).

But the top on.

The chili-pepper keeps both pests that would eat the rice and bacteria away.

It works. Extraordinarily well. No requirement for vacuum. Remove the peppers from scoops of rice taken out for preparation and use for seasoning.

Thanks for this! Really useful info, and given the current immigration situation bulk supplies of peppers are available at the local supermercado. I assume the really hot ones are used?

If you have a big chest freezer (I don't) I've heard that freezing sacks of rice/grain for 3 days prior to putting into mylar bag/bucket also works well. Kills all the eggs. Of course, the dry ice/oxygen absorber/nitrogen methods to be found all over the net are reputed to work well.

Reaper, I was in the same boat as you regarding bulk grains and shipping. I eventually found bulk supplies of legumes, dent corn, wheat, amaranth, etc. at a local business that supplies the restaurant trade with "premium" product. They also carry morels, truffles, blue corn for $12 appetizers, etc. While the price was probably double fair market value, the fact that there was no shipping made it a screaming bargain compared to the Walton Feed/Emergency Essential route. And the product was beautiful, I have to admit. Clean, dry, no broken grains, etc. Still had to be put up in mylar/buckets.

It's also worth a shot calling the LDS chapter and inquiring about getting in on a bulk buy. Food co-ops often have bulk product, there's a state list here. Organic food stores are sometimes a good resource.

I've been away in Singapore. The people I worked with represent a mirror image of the average American: they are all prepping like mad, even given the challenge most face with small living spaces. Many Indonesians commute to S'pore (on cheap charter flights) to work as domestics, service workers, etc. The Singaporeans know they are on the front lines if a pandemic pops up in Indonesia.

Recipes
 

Regarding bulk food purchases:

It's a really good idea to dig up recipes on the Internet and print them out now. You'll identify the additional ingredients needed to turn the bulk product into edible food and you'll be forced to think about cooking/baking requirements. Team Sergeant will parch his corn on a heated flat rock and choke it down with agave juice, but I'm hoping for a better menu. ;)

We have a mix of canned food that we try to rotate (unsuccessfully in most cases), Mountain House (this was a freebie) and bulk rice, corn, hard red wheat, soft white wheat, legumes, and pasta. I plan on stretching the canned food and the Mountain House by serving it over rice and beans (a big single-serving can of Progresso soup poured over four cups of rice/one cup of beans is a filling meal for four, and certainly better than the noodles and ketchup I've eaten for weeks at a time :) ).

Now, I make a mean loaf of crusty peasant bread, and I have the ingredients to make it, but I think it would be foolish to count on my oven being available in any serious crisis. Recipes for wheat tortillas, Indian Roti and Chapattis, and other unleavened flat breads are all over the Internet and they can be cooked using a cast iron skillet over an open fire. You do have a cast iron skillet and dutch oven?

Corn bread, polenta, hasty pudding, and other recipes for using ground dent corn are also all over the place. Corn needs to be soaked in a lye solution (wood ashes in water is the traditional method) to make the niacin in corn nutritionally available (as in grits) but just grinding it makes a really tasty cornmeal that has dozens of uses. Those cowboys ate cornbread and beans for a reason: as with beans and rice, corn and rice in combination has all the essential amino acids.

Grinding. You can sprout your grains or simply boil them into a mush but to really make anything tasty out of them you'll need to grind them. Manual grain mills don't come cheap. In a pinch, you can get three lengths of black pipe (the kind that carries residential natural gas) and wire them together side-by-side into a single triangular length. Open both ends of big coffee can, place it on a concrete surface, and fill 1/3 with grain. Drop the pipe into the can. Repeat a gillion times. I prefer a mill and I'll reluctantly say I have the Country Living Mill. It's not the Cadillac of mills, but it's reasonably priced compared to the others and it has Cadillac performance. As noted in the link, the mill is mostly plastic, but it's German plastic and this little mill has a rabid following if you do some research. It's reputed to hold up well. YMMV.

Finally, cooking oil. Oil and shortening will provide many essential nutrients and calories in an extended emergency. I have several large cans of olive oil (cost a bomb) and it's reputed to last virtually forever if left unopened in the can in a cool place. Cooking oil has the shortest shelf life of any stored food - I can't get a straight answer on this but I hear 6 months to a year. Canned Crisco can be stored for a coupla years, I've heard. But at the first hint of trouble, I'll be finishing my preps by getting several of those bulk jugs of canola oil used by turkey fryers.

Don't forget salt and vitamins.

Great info as usual.

I was thinking about this today. You can survive on plain, boiled rice, but you're not going to be having a good time doing it. Salt, spices, etc will really go a long way in having a tasty meal.

And vitamins will help where you might be lacking. What's the usual shelf-life of a normal multi-vitamin??

I have a Family Grain Mill.

It comes hand powered or electric. The hand version can be found for less than $100, delivered. It is durable, reliable, and does a good, if slightly coarse job.

The Country Living Mill is a Cadillac, IMHO.

TR

Well guys, are we going to divide up the "preparedness" into sections as TS stated?:munchin

Generally I believe it's approximately 1-2 years, (based on when I last bought mine and the expiration date on the bottle) and they should be stored in a cool, dry place.

Meds, food, and batteries will keep well beyond their shelf life if refrigerated (but not necessarily if frozen).

Most will still have some effect remaining, but meds are a real tricky area.

TR

Speaking of meds. Isn't Tetracycline one of the meds that is a no-no after it expires? Something about kidney damage?

Just a bit off subject…

Just an observation, this is going to have to be reorganized in some form after we are done here, and maybe even available in a print form with a good index. If we wrap things up before I take off for selection and all that, I have a friend in the printing business that might help…. But this in not something to rush, and it may have to be something that we as a forum do much further down the line.

Additionally it could be a good source of income for both this forum and a worthy cause like the Warrior Foundation, or the like…

Just my 0.02

JPH

You will still find this all over the Internet and your family doc will use it as a scare tactic for not using drugs past their expiry date, but it's an urban legend. Forty years ago, there was exactly one case of irreversible kidney damage due to out-of-date tetracycline, and that was due to an "inert" ingredient that combined with the TC and caused the problem. The formulation was changed and the problem disappeared.

As TR said, most drugs are perfectly good long after their expiry date has passed. The Pentagon instituted a series of studies, and then a program called Shelf Life Extension Program (SLEP) that has saved tens, maybe hundreds, of millions of dollars by dispensing drugs after their expiry. I think there's a database online somewhere (Google SLEP) detailing the results of the studies. You can look up individual drugs.

Note this extended life is not true across the board: nitroglycerin and other drugs lose potency very quickly. But most blood pressure pills, antibiotics, antivirals (incl. Tamiflu) can be nearly 100% potent ten years after expiry.

Amen. That's why I like Greenhat's tip regarding chiles in the rice. Dehydrated onions/green peppers/mushrooms, bullion, hot sauce, worsteshire sauce, spices, etc. would really make a difference. This is one place having a dehydrator and a vacuum sealer really shines. A tip though: if you dehydrate diced onions make sure you do it outside. Lesson learned.