Although our topic has switched to tools, in light of The Reaper's post I'll add my recent experience with my furnace (AKA my boiler).

Spring has been late in coming to my area of the NE and last week Thursday I woke up in a VERY chilly bedroom. My home was built in 1941 and still has the original hot water boiler and radiators for its heating system. I was puzzled because I could hear that the system was 'running' so I knew the thermostat had kicked it on.
I walked down the stairs to the basement to find that the copper coil, that is the 'innards' of my boiler and which is heated by natural gas jets on the base of the boiler , had cracked and was now leaking water all over the floor as well as swamped the gas jets and pilot light.
1). I believe there is a 'safety' mechanism that shuts off the gas, even though the furnace was calling for it. Nevertheless, I have several Carbon Monoxide detectors properly located so that was not a problem. After having a 'scare' several years ago I believe that every home should have several and buy the good ones - carbon monoxide is not an area to pinch pennies.
2). I had no idea how to shut the water off to the boiler to stop the leaking all over the floor. Had to call a friend to come do that. ( Note to the other ladies on PS.com........make sure you find out about all the simple stuff as a home owner , like where shut off valves are for everything related to water - water to the toilet, to the outside hose connection, to your hot water heater, to your furnace if it involves hot water, etc. etc.)
3). Once the leaking water was taken care of, I knew I had to find a source of heat for the next few days and the forecast was calling for an overnight low of 0* !!
I have one of those electric sealed space heaters that has oil inside it, and it has a multiple setting thermostat. It actually looks like a radiator - you've most likely seen them.
I don't have a fireplace.
No little children around any longer, but I do have pets so whatever I use has to be 'pet' safe.
Because of that, one other older electric space heater I owned was not going to be 'safe' to use. The heating elements were too exposed for my peace of mind.
A friend loaned me another type of space heater that does have heating elements (rather than the 'oil' ) but it was much safer than the one I had. Mine is going in the trash.

The weather has gone from frigid on the night the boiler died, to 60* yesterday, and tonight we have a weather advisory for 3 - 6 " of snow once again. :mad:

So, I guess this story is about what to do if your home heating source kicks the bucket, in very cold temps, and you can't just pack up and go stay with friends or family because your pets will freeze. :(

It's not the standard problem when all power is lost during a blizzard, but having SAFE alternate heating sources on short notice for back up is worth thinking about BEFORE you need them.

RC201

Wow, RC...glad you found alternative heat.

Did you have your boiler/furnace checked out by a professional prior to turning it on for the winter season?

We have already covered heat, but I would add that in an emergency cold weather situation, collapse all of your activities down to a small part of the house, or a single central or well insulated room, if possible.

The smaller space takes a lot less energy to heat, if you have supplemental heat, and if not, body heat and a candle or two (or a can of Sterno) will be a lot more effective in the confined space than in an entire dwelling.

Just remember to keep an eye out for Carbon Monoxide problems.

Thanks for sharing!

TR

One winter some years ago in Chicago, the furnace died on us. The system was still blowing air, but an electrical part went out related to the thermostat. My uncle whom I lived with then was out and my aunt didn't know what to do. It was a weekend and the repair guy said he'd come the next day. We have a fireplace in the living room and it has it's own gas line. Finding the main valve in the basement was interesting (we rarely turned it on and it was my uncle), but once we did, that was our source of heat.

My aunt, my two cousins, a buddy that was over visiting, and myself all threw sleeping bags in front of the fireplace and crashed there for the night. We had lots of extra blankets. The only problem with the fireplace was that its location was in the most open/exposed part of the house (Valuted ceilings, windows, french doors, etc.). There was no way to trap heat to that room. Temp in the house was hovering around 50 the next early morning. The fireplace looked pretty, but didn't have much 'oomph' to it.

[QUOTE=The Reaper]E-tool, flashlights, batteries, fire extinguisher, an axe, folding saw, multi-tool, comealong, tow strap, tie downs, ratchet straps, bolt cutters, rope, jumper cables, 100mph tape, electrical tape, spare bulbs, 550 cord, a space blanket or three, gloves, hats, rags, wipes, a siphon hose, cans of fix-a-flat, fuel line, clamps, wire, a gas can, flares, cell charger, lineman's phone, water, food, scanner, fuses, spare ammo, OC, flex-cuffs, a first aid kit, paper towels, a notebook, pens and pencils, and a tool kit (Craftsman and WiHa).

Looks like you have that pretty well covered, but why the bolt cutters?

I also carry an Estwing axe and a folding shovel + a small BOB or "Possibles Bag" which includes a large fixed blade.

bob

Let's just say it comes in handy when I forget my masterkey.

Makes a lot less noise than the shotgun, too.

TR

Concur.
I ALWAYS have bolt cutters when I hunt or go way out to camp. You never know when you might "misplace" your gate keys during a hunt or ride. There are other uses for that wonderful little device should you happen upon a poacher's lock-on stand or climber as well. :D Bolt cutters can also be used to unbind an axle/hub that has been bound by wire/debris as well- BTDT.
[/hijack]

OK, it's just what I figured with the bolt cutters. Not too many fences or gates around Alaska though. Here most problems begin with getting stuck and the weather going to hell. There are a lot of people who think a granola bar is being prepared, so we get a few tragic SAR headlines every year. Most of my hunting is fly in, hike in, 4 wheeler or snow machine.

Back to the subject of tools, I have a complete selection of non-power carpentry tools that I can and have used to build everything from buildings to cabinets to furniture. They are in 2 old style open carpenter's wooden tool boxes and my family knows they are to go with us should the SHTF. I built this tool set based on what I learned from an old retired master carpenter when I was a kid. I do have all the modern power tools & toys, but I use the old stuff most.

I've always thought I should plan for no power and limited fuel if things got really bad. After many prolonged power outages here over the years, I've tried to make sure we have what we need at home so we don't have to rely on utilities. It has paid off many times.....

Indian

I never thought about how useful that would be.

Since I'm in metro Atlanta, surrounded by folks that probably aren't prepared, my plan is to bug-out quickly to the national forests or state parks. If it's a short term problem, I get a nice camping weekend. Is fishing gear considered tools?

TR listed some great tools to keep around the house if you wanted to wait it out. Assuming a long-term stay away from your current home due to H51, economic collapse, or zombie invasion, what would you consider must haves?

Assuming I'd want to build a shelter better than a tent: hammer, nails, manual drill with bits, screws, screwdrivers, axe, handsaw, plumb bob, square, level.

Tar paper?
Rope, what sizes and lengths?
Wire, gauges and amount?

I've been looking at some inexpensive trailers from harbor freight to be a camping/bug-out trailer. My truck feels big, but by the time I add load up on food, water, fuel, and clothing, it seems a lot smaller. With the trailer, I could also carry a few things to make my life easier: like my kayak for fishing, scouting, setting trot lines, etc. Because I camp and hike frequently, I will rotate food stuffs, and the trailer will double as my camp trailer. After a few trips, I will have a better idea of what I need/don't need in a serious SHTF situation.

I have considered a pop-up for similar reasons: more comfortable for a long outing, whatever the reason, and extra carrying capacity.

I would not bet my life on anything made by Harbor Freight.

You may be able to get a good deal on a used enclosed trailer by watching the classifieds.

If you are going to be building a shelter, you first will need a place to live while you work, then you will need a lot of lumber, or the tools to make it, like saws, a portable mill, axes, adzes, drills, braces and bits, a come-along, a Hi-Lift Jack, a welding vehicle alternator with cables, a handcart or heavy duty wheelbarrow, etc. Only after that will you need to tools to assemble it. Tar paper or roofing felt would be good to have, as would plastic sheeting, tarps, some sheets of galvanized metal roofing, a roll of sheet metal, a few rolls of insulation, a caulking gun and plenty of caulk and liquid nails, a window or two, several bags of cement and sand, pieces of rebar, some fencing or chicken wire, some five gallon buckets, a washtub, some cast iron cookware, a Yukon or pot-bellied wood stove, hinges, a lockset, plenty of spikes, nails, screws, cordage, wire, chain, strapping, JB Weld, 100 mph tape, epoxy, etc., a deep cycle battery or two, and a bicycle. If room allowed, a set of blacksmithing tools (hammers, tongs, etc.), an anvil, and some stock metal could come in handy.

If you are anticipate being there a year or more, some seeds and gardening/farming tools would be a great idea.

TR

I have zero experience with HF products. Since I grew up on a farm, and my dad was a mechanic, I'm mechanically inclined and experienced in "Southern Engineering." I intended to check out the trailer quality, then during my camping excursions, see how it holds up under load. However, I'll defer to your experience and either construct my own trailer, or find one.

The seeds are a great idea. They're inexpensive and take a minimum amount of space. The National Center for Genetic Resources Preservation claims that properly stored seeds can remain viable for 100 years at -18C. If your bugout plan includes seeds, make sure you grow a little garden to get the hang of it. Considering most of our food is NOT produced locally, and grocery stores truck most food in, a fuel shortage can quickly lead to a food shortage.

Our refineries are very vulnerable, and much of our oil is supplied by not-so-friendly countries. As Chinese fuel demand increases, and radicalism and socialism continue to rear their ugly heads in several key oil-producing areas, I consider a major fuel shortage to be just as realistic a possibility as the pandemic flu. Those of you who lived during the OPEC embargo already know impact of short term fuel shortages.

If you get seeds, and you plan to grow more than one crop, do not get the hybrid variety seeds. They will be sterile after the first crop.

TR

New Mountain House Group Buy - MRE & Bulk
 

For anyone interested ---
I missed the initial group buy from Mountain House that TR participated in, so I contacted Boadsword directly, and received the following information.

Broadsword,
Are you planning on another group buy from Mountain House. Any information would be appreciated


From: <broadsword2269@yahoo.com>

Yes, We have one coming up in just a couple weeks. We're doing a group buy on MRE entree's right now if you want to get in on that. -
Don

SnT

Food storage
 

I'll first say that I'm LDS (Mormon) and for us, self-reliance and food storage is something of a commandment. ;) Obviously not all Mormons live up to all of their rules (real or perceived) just like any other religious body, so I'm guessing that if you polled 10 Mormons on the street 4 of them might be able to talk with any credibility on the subject. I'm not bagging on my fellowmen here, I'm just adding this caveat so that when I tell you that for some of my suggestions you'll need to find yourself a Mormon, you are careful in your selection of those you seek out for any assistance with LDS resources.

With that said...

The LDS church has a LOT of resources available to it and its membership regarding food storage. Probably the single best resource, in my opinion, is the "cannery" (that's what we call it) but it is more formally known as the Home Storage Center. There are literally hundreds of them located all over the world. You can find the one closest to you here: http://www.providentliving.org/conte...4066-1,00.html
Before I go into what is found at the cannery, here's the catch: in order to avail yourself of the cannery you must go with a member of the church. Because this isn't a "for-profit" organization and taxes aren't paid it or the workers (it's all volunteer) it cannot be opened to the public. So, if you know a member of the church, ask them about the cannery and when their "ward" time is to go. Each ward generally has a pre-appointed time to go to the cannery every month or so. You can tag along. If you don't know anyone in the area who is Mormon and you are a little more daring, you can look up the local church and call and ask for the ward food storage specialist. Every ward has one. Ask for their name and number. Call that person and tell them you'd like to go and volunteer to help on their next canning day and they'll be happy to have you. Generally you have to put your bulk order in a few months in advance, but you can order off the shelf products or bring your own products to can (I'll explain that in a minute). You'll have at least 20-30 people there helping you on a Saturday morning and together everyone cans tons (literally) of food for each other and you are done in a few hours. It's fun actually. Very little religious overtones - just an opening prayer. The rest is getting down to business. I can't promise you that no one will try and invite you to church, but if you are clear that your purpose there is to be a friend and a compatriot in self-reliance and that's it and you are helpful and pleasant - they'll get the hint and move on. That won't stop them from being really nice to you though. The ward food storage (or self-reliance) specialist is the key to your entrance. I called my ward's self-reliance specialist here and asked her if a non-Mormon wanted to come with us and can if that was cool and she said yes, it happens regularly. She said they just get their order to her, get their map to the cannery and they're good to go. I go and can regularly and I've never noticed anyone getting the missionary special (and I rarely recognize more than a handful of people anyway), I've been too busy canning to care. If someone is in the Tucson or Phoenix areas and is interested, PM me and I can hook you up with people.

As far as what you can get/can at the dry-pack canneries:
flour
rice (long-grain - we bring our own short grain rice since my husband is very picky about his rice)
spaghetti
sugar
dried apple slices
red wheat
white wheat
quick oats
rolled oats
powdered milk (great to use all the time for cooking)
potato buds (a staple in our house - they're YUMMY)
chocolate pudding
vanilla pudding (the puddings are good for cooking cakes and whatnot)
dried carrots
black beans
navy beans
dried onions
refried beans
(I'm doing this from memory, but I think that's it for your normal dry-pack canneries). This is all generally canned in 10# cans. I know some do mylar bags, but those break open or puncture easily so if you move at all, I wouldn't suggest it.

Some of the canneries (like the one in Phoenix) also do wet-packing. They do meats, jams/jellies, peanut butter, etc. I've never been to a wet-pack cannery, but if you've got one in your area that's great. I don't have a price list with me, but I'll grab one on Sunday. I do know the bulk prices beat the commissary and Sam's Club/Costco on normal days. That isn't to say you can't beat the cannery - but when you add the type of cans (10#), you've got a good thing going and it generally blows it away. The closest cannery in North Carolina is in Greensboro.

However, I do the majority of my day-to-day (what's in my pantry) food storage shopping at the commissary and Costco. Case lot sales are my best friend. I'm a huge proponent of store what you eat. We probably have about a four month supply between our pantry, closets and deep freeze. I've got three young kids who just aren't going to eat wheat happily. I'm not going to cook wheat happily. I have some wheat for real true nasty awful emergencies, but I don't bake my bread. I buy 4-5 loaves at a time and freeze them. I'll post an article below this post that I live by that explains the biggest mistakes in food storage. Being an active duty family I just don't think it is reasonable to think we can store more than 4 months of food without killing our weight allowance and ourselves on any given move - not to mention the fact that we regularly have issues with storage (and that has nothing to do with my obsession with dishes) :eek: .

There are a couple of web sites that I like for bulk items that do have good prices - at least to compare prices with the canneries, etc are:
www.honeyvillegrain.com
www.beprepared.com (have great first aid kits, 72 hour kits and will do group orders and save you on shipping)
www.waltonfeed.com

Couple of other things:

Meds: I've tried to read the whole thread and I may have missed this - if it's been said already, it merits being said again. You need to keep an extra month of medicine on-hand. My son has an endocrine issue that requires daily injections of a drug that gets mail ordered to us in a refrigerated container on a monthly basis. I've been slowly hoarding it over the past few years (they won't hand me an extra supply happily) and now I'm about a month ahead of where they think we are... During Hurricane Katrina there were HUGE problems getting the meds to patients in the affected areas and so other parents on my support group board were driving their extra medicine all over the country - it was awful. Anyway, I'm paranoid now.

Finances: Food storage is a really really good idea during lean times too. We've lived out of our food storage in the past when we just haven't had a good cash flow. It isn't just for catastrophic times. I regularly see the commissary promote buying a little extra to keep in the pantry and I think this is beyond wise and we should educate some of the younger/newers out there that they ought to be a month ahead with what is in the cupboard. The finance office doesn't always come through when they need to and it's good to have some extra mac and cheese hanging around. I also LOVE going through a month where I cook out of my food storage and my freezer and only to the commissary for fruit/veggies. A couple of months ago my total grocery bill for the month was $50. I obviously can't do that every month because I have to stock back up again, and this past month I had a much bigger bill - but it's great when you need to use the money for something else and you need to rotate your food.

MRE's: This is more a question... I saw mention of a bulk order you all did awhile ago. Was this cheaper than the MRE's that you can buy in the commissary? We like having MRE's around as 72 hour kit and camping food and I keep a few in the cars, but DANG they're pricey. My husband flat refuses to bring any home from work. I'm not going to push his ethics on this one, but... can't I find them cheaper somewhere besides the commissary?

Beef: I've had a few family members who have done this - we've never been anywhere quite long enough to do it but I really want to... I think going in with a few friends a splitting a cow is a great idea. I'm not sure the particulars or how you go about finding said cow, but I know they get a ton of beef out of a 1/4 cow and it lasts over a year for a family of five with lots of good beef and ends up being economical (or so I've heard). Clearly if electricity were cut, the freezer would be trouble but I guess the BBQ would have to be fired up right quick. I do know people who can beef in their homes but that is way out of my league.

Hopefully this wasn't too rambling. If I haven't been clear, please let me know. If anyone wants prices, let me know and I'll either post them or PM them to you. I've also got spreadsheets for inventory and food storage plans for building a 3 month supply one week at a time over the course of a year. The last thing you need to do is go into debt to get prepared - that would really defeat things.

I'll post the article below in it's entirety. I think it is worth the read.

7 Mistakes of Food Storage
 

7 Mistakes of food storage

By Vicki Tate

If you are going to store food, make sure that the food you store is adequate for the need you and your family anticipate. This may not be as easy as to achieve as many people think, because the facts are that most people make serious errors when storing food—errors that will come back to haunt them when the food they’ve stored is the only thing that stands between them and their empty, dissatisfied, bellies.

There are seven common mistakes people make when storing food. They are:

1. Variety
Most people don’t have enough variety in their storage. 95% of the people I’ve worked with have only stored four basic items: wheat, milk, honey, and salt. Statistics show most of us won’t survive on such a diet for several reasons. a) Many people are allergic to wheat and may not be aware of it until they are eating it meal after meal. b) Wheat is too harsh for young children. They can tolerate it in small amounts but not as their main staple. c) We get tired of eating the same foods over and over and many times prefer to not eat, then to sample that particular food again. This is called appetite fatigue. Young children and older people are particularly susceptible to it. Store less wheat than is generally suggested and put the difference into a variety of other grains, particularly ones your family likes to eat. Also store a variety of beans, as this will add color, texture, and flavor. Variety is the key to a successful storage program. It is essential that you store flavorings such as tomato, bouillon, cheese, and onion.

Also, include a good supply of the spices you like to cook with. These flavorings and spices allow you to do many creative things with your grains and beans. Without them you are severely limited. One of the best suggestions I can give you is buy a good food storage cookbook, go through it, and see what your family would really eat. Notice the ingredients as you do it. This will help you more than anything else to know what items to store.

2. Extended staples
Never put all your eggs in one basket. Store dehydrated and/or freeze dried foods as well as home canned and “store bought” canned goods. Make sure you add cooking oil, shortening, baking powder, soda, yeast, and powdered eggs. You can’t cook even the most basic recipes without these items.


3. Vitamins
Vitamins are important, especially if you have children, since children do not store body reserves of nutrients as adults do. A good quality multi-vitamin and vitamin C are the most vital. Others might be added as your budget permits.

4. Quick and easy and “psychological foods”
Quick and easy foods help you through times when you are psychologically or physically unable to prepare your basic storage items. “No cook” foods such as freeze-dried are wonderful since they require little preparation, MREs (Meal Ready to Eat), such as many preparedness outlets carry, canned goods, etc. are also very good. “Psychological foods” are the goodies—Jello, pudding, candy, etc.—you should add to your storage. These may sound frivolous, but through the years I've talked with many people who have lived entirely on their storage for extended periods of time. Nearly all of them say these were the most helpful items in their storage to “normalize” their situations and make it more bearable. These are especially important if you have children.

5. Balance
Time and time again I’ve seen families buy all of their wheat, then buy all of another item and so on. Don’t do that. It’s important to keep well-balanced as you build your storage. Buy several items, rather than a large quantity of one item. If something happens and you have to live on your present storage, you’ll fare much better having a one month supply of a variety of items than a year’s supply of two or three items.

6. Containers
Always store your bulk foods in food storage containers. I have seen literally tons and tons of food thrown away because they were left in sacks, where they became highly susceptible to moisture, insects, and rodents. If you are using plastic buckets make sure they are lined with a food grade plastic liner available from companies that carry packaging supplies. Never use trash can liners as these are treated with pesticides. Don’t stack them too high. In an earthquake they may topple, the lids pop open, or they may crack. A better container is the #10 tin can which most preparedness companies use when they package their foods.

7. Use your storage
In all the years I’ve worked with preparedness one of the biggest problems I’ve seen is people storing food and not knowing what to do with it. It’s vital that you and your family become familiar with the things you are storing. You need to know how to prepare these foods. This is not something you want to have to learn under stress. Your family needs to be used to eating these foods. A stressful period is not a good time to totally change your diet. Get a good food storage cookbook and learn to use these foods! It’s better to find out the mistakes you’ll make now while there’s still time to make corrections.

It’s easy to take basic food storage and add the essentials that make it tasty, and it needs to be done. As I did the research for my cookbook, Cooking with Home Storage, I wanted to include recipes that gave help to families no matter what they had stored. As I put the material together it was fascinating to discover what the pioneers ate compared to the types of things we store. If you have stored only the basics, there’s very little you can do with it. By adding even just a few things, it greatly increases your options, and the prospect of your family surviving on it. As I studied how the pioneers lived and ate, my whole feeling for food storage changed. I realized our storage is what most of the world has always lived on. If it’s put together the right way we are returning to good basic food with a few goodies thrown in.


Vicki Tate is the author of the popular book, Cooking With Home Storage

Shar
 

Shar;

You have 8 posts so far and all have been great. Keep up the good work, I'll have to keep my eyes open for the next Shar-gram.


Pete

Shar:

Good info.

When you get here and get hooked up with a local church, maybe we can get together and tag along with you on a trip to Greensboro.

Since you mentioned you have a dish fetish, I feel it is only fair to warn you that one of the largest dish replacement companies in the US, Replacements Limited, is located in Greensboro. http://www.replacements.com/index.htm

MREs are expensive to make and are best stored in cool temperatures. The menu changes for good reason, since eating them for very long is quickly monotonous. The cheapest way to get them is to ask around military people who deploy a lot. Like SF. If your hubby won't hook you up, someone in his unit might have some extras. I have to tell you that you can save money on the MREs by just buying the entrees and skipping all of the packaging, accessories, heaters, toilet paper, etc. The companies that package the entrees also sell them separately.

PCS time is a great chance to get ahead on meds.

The details of the Mountain House buy (from Oregon Freeze Dry, who packs MH food) are further back in this thread, they were with Broadsword at WarRifles.com and they appear to do them regularly. IIRC, someone said that they were doing an MRE entree buy as well. They have some rules, but I found it realtively easy to order and they were delivered to my door. The discount, for #10 cans was somewhere around 50% and the shipping (for orders over $500) was free. The people putting the deal together semed pretty trustworthy and easy to deal with.

HTH.

TR

Oh, I LOVE that company though I've never bought, only registered. And really, you should be warning my husband... He doesn't share the love. I will however forget to mention the tidbit of information so that he can focus all of his energy on getting us to NC. :p

I'd be happy to help coordinate the cannery if/when we get there so long as I get to waive at Replacements Limited on the trip.

Shar:

Thanks for all the info. I have the waltonfeed website on my favorites list. I think I'll be getting some of their Gamma Seal lids. That's something that has a ton of uses for storing stuff.

I noticed at waltonfeed.com that they have package deals for a year or two months supply of food. (They have three different "one year" packages).

http://waltonfeed.com/intro/packages.html

Would something like this be a good starting point for someone starting their food storage system?

Most packages offered are very heavy on grain and have a lot of sugars to raise the calorie count and are not something that you would actually want to eat for a year.

I would look closely at the menu and be sure of what I was getting before I ordered it.

You also need to look at shipping charges, and whether you actually have somewhere to store a couple of pallets of food under controlled climate conditions.

TR

Check Ebay for Bendix/King Radios. Also known as a PRC-127. User face programmable VHF (and UHF) radios.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/ind...e&id=multi_use

You can program it to the MURS freq's for local use.

Good compatible mobile VHF radios for vehicles and base are relm/regency/wilson mobiles on ebay. They are also user programmable.

I've used these radios for years in SAR and police work. Good bang for the buck, and the major advantage is they are easily programmable. Lots of Amateur radios today are very complicated to program and require you to take it to a shop where they program it from cables connected to a 'puter.

New People
 

For you new people. Dean is churning out in the mid-Atlanitc.

Time to review this thread, blow the dust of the generator, check/rotate emergency supplies, check meds, review emergency plans to include commo, check the exterior of the home (gutters, etc) and yard (dead trees, branches, etc) etc, etc etc.

Read the thread.

Pete

here's a question... anyone do any off-site caches, and if so, what are you caching?

I do not think it is prudent to discuss where or what one is caching on the internet.

Having said that, it is reasonable to have modularity, and back-ups (remember PACE). Most people do not stay at home 24/7. If possible, people should have a certain amount of gear on their person (EDC or ruck), as well as at their workplace, in their vehicle, at home, and at any alternate location you plan to go to.

Someone living in Miami might want to have a secondary location with preparation at an alternate inland site, perhaps at a friend's or relative's house.

The purpose of the personal kit is to enable you to be prepared for a short duration emergency and to move to the next prepared location. If the evacuation has hopelessly crowded the highways, you need to have a plan to remain in place.

The kit in the auto should be appropriate for the season and the threat. What you would keep in a preparedness kit in Buffalo, NY in February would not be the same as New Orleans in August. The car kit should be designed to supplement your personal kit, and to allow you to survive in your car or on the move for a given period, perhaps 3-7 days, while you wait for rescue or move to a better location.

The home kit should be the bulk of your preparedness effort. If you plan to relocate to another location, you should still have the necessities so that survival there is an option. If you are planning to relocate, the home kit should be as portable as possible considering your transportation assets available.

A secondary location should be stand-alone as well as supplemental to the main effort. For example, if you are bringing firearms, spare ammo and mags would be a good idea, but you might want to have one or two firearms in the same calibers there, in case you arrive unarmed. A wise person will look at the laundry list of things that we have discussed and will make sure that additional iterms at the secondary site are complementary. Canned food is useless without a way to open it. Bulk wheat is not very palatable without a mill or grinder. Etc., etc. Barter items may be useful as well.

Hope that helps.

TR

Good train of thought.

preparedness
 

This is a great thread.
My wife of 26 years is very talented in the food preparation department.
She cans fresh vegetables so that we do not need refrigeration and i cure pork and venison so that we do not have to use a freezer.
During hurricane Katrina we were without electricity for 15 days and I can tell you that a butane cooker is about the handiest item you can use. Bottledwater is also very desirable, but in an emergency any water can be boiled to purity.

We actually saw desperate individuals pull knives on each other over a gallon of gasoline. Civilization breaks down very fast when people's immediate needs can not be attained.

I hope I never live thru another Katrina but you can bet your last dollar that my family is prepared.


calpdoc sends,

PCS preparedness issues
 

The big difficulty we've run into is the frequency of moves we've had, space alloted us in quarters and weight allowances. Out of pure need things like our generator are now being stored at my father's home until we get a little more stable. Although, his house would likely be our secondary location - as you stated TR. I'm not sure if this is naive of me or not, but I'm assuming that if we are living on post our need for large, major things like generators should be lower. I wish we could have all the supplies with us for a long haul, but there is simply no room.

Since we anticipate another PCS soon, I also find myself in the position of starting to try and use up as much of the food storage I can to lighten our weight. I really wish we didn't have to do that, but I guess it helps with rotation and it helps the food budget on the way out! What stinks is trying to build it up again with each subsequent move.

We've been from Ft. Drum to Ft. Huachuca recently and the car kits and emergency supplies we keep in the car are very different. I don't dare get rid of the emergency blankets or other cold weather supplies though. With our PCS pattern, it is inevitable we'll end up using it again.

What we really need to buy is a trailer. Any recommendations? My husband has a full-size pickup truck but we wouldn't want to get anything too big, but we wouldn't want to kick ourselves later for going too small.

What do you want the trailer for?

PCS or evacuation?

TR

I was hoping we could cover both bases with one trailer.

To complicate matters, my husband would like it to be something he could keep the family camping gear in when we aren't moving (and maybe when we are) so it wouldn't take so long to pack up for camping trips. I should also say that our camping supplies can and do double as our emergency supplies and all of it, if not most of it, would also be what we'd take with us in case of an evacuation. So we feel like the purchase of a trailer is an emergency preparedness move we'd be making more then just buying a trailer for PCS moves.

So... we're looking for a PCSing, evacuation, camping trailer. :D

I would rent a trailer for PCS moves and doing a DITY. You can even haul all of the stuff that the movers won't take or that you don't trust then to haul.

If you want one to store stuff in or to evacuate in, you will need one that is weatherproof, theft resistant, and able to be slept in. You also need to be sure that you have a good prime mover that is safe to tow it when loaded. Do not forget that you will need a secure place to park it between moves.

That means probably a 12 footer or more with a side door, dual axle, with electric brakes if you are going to load it heavily.

TR

I am so glad that somebody started this thread again. I am printing the pages out now for future referece.

Now on a side note. In NEO we experieced our version of the "Perfect Storm" over the lower Great Lakes. It was a very deep low with a record barometer reading at the end of December 31 and through January 1 1976/77. Temperatures droped throut the day until sundown when we hit record lows of -10 to -20 degrees without wind chill which was on most occassions at 30 to 45 knots. It started in the morning when people were on their way to work and
within an hour we had already 7+ inches and the street plows where now begining to loose the battle when the accumalations began to reach the 14-16 inches. In fact they ended up buried themselves. The snowflakes were at least two inches in diameter visibilty was absolute zero I remember that people were stranded everywhere there was a road or highway. It snowed a record total of acumalation of 4+ feet and that was the least amount some people recieved to my AO had a total of 5+ feet. Now here is where it gets interesting. Thirteen people died on interstates 77 & 76. They died either (most of them) form Hypothermia or Carbon Monoxide poisoning. They waited for 2 days for rescues that didn't come until the ONG started flying rescue missions and this was until the ONG pilots could make into work. The Govenor mobalized the entire ONG to come to our AO and when they did come they came by M-113's, tanks with plows on the front, massive road graders, or by Chinook and Hueys. Now these stranded drivers were ALL within a few hundred yards to one or more houses. It would appear that some either were afarid to ask for help or didn't want to leave there vehicle while they were safe and warm. The people that died of Hypothermia had used up all their gas and just waited it out with no supplies or even a blanket. They went to sleep freezing and never woke up.

Now, why would these people not leave their vehicles and head for a house?
This still blows my mind when I read books on our "Perfect Storm. What could they possibly have been thinking as they were dying within eyesight of a house with heat and smoke pouring out of the chimneys? :confused:

From your description and the depth of the snow, they may not have been able to see them.

The best advice is usually to remain with the vehicle.

It is understandable, but rare for rescue to take that long.

TR

One more reason I am opting for a stack on my truck. Utility outweighs appearance...

it's recommended if you're stranded to dig your rig out in terms of the exhaust, keep the windows slightly cracked if possible, and run the engine sparingly to prevent CO buildup.

Diesel motors also are safer in that regard, because of the lesser CO count output.

I wonder if it might be possible to explore the mirror image of your question.

Let us suppose we have two people in one of those houses you mention. They are well prepared and comfortable. And then comes a plaintive knocking on the door.

If they invite them in, the load on existing supplies increases. That probably won't be an issue in the short term - but longer term situations occur. Given the amount of supplies most people keep on hand, one might need to tap the long-term survival supplies earlier rather than later. And, too, the number needing help is indeterminate. It might be one or two...it might be a family with 4 hungry teenagers...it could be a bus with the local university's football team. Will the existing supplies suffice? Is one prepared to allocate based on need - or eloquence of whine?

I suppose we have all read horrific accounts of what happened to people who opened the door to strangers. While a Quiet Professional could surely deal with the matter, not everyone has the skills and abilities of a QP. So - is one inviting a pack of wolves into the house?

Of course, the other side of the coin is that one might meet some splendid people, and spend a day enjoying good conversation and fun - in essence, a party where new friends were made.

I am not advocating any course of action. But I suspect the issue of what one does when the knock on the door comes is worthy of consideration.

Not true
 

A snow storm is a short term event - mostly. A few days and then things start picking back up.

I'm trying to remember the storm but it was about two years ago and a section of highway was blocked, I want to say somewhere in the S/W. People made their way from their cars to the nearest homes. A place was found for all.

By the time the storm was over IIRC one home had over 20 people in it. From the stories I recall, some of the homes got real low on food and they became very creative with menues.

Again - this is "Be Prepared". If you live near a section of highway that gets snowed over a couple of times a year would you have just a bit more emergency food and supplies on hand? Would you look out during a clear spell and see a car or two and go check them? Who would you find? A pregnant mother with two little kids travelling to see the grand parents for the holidays? Granted you could find the other extreme but "Be Prepared."

Guys, got my dates a little mixed up. The temperature during the winters of 76 & 77 were the coldest on record for Ohio, not really a blizzard in any stretch of the imagination. My apologies!

Here is the real deal that I am talked about in my past thread. It happened in January of 1978:

http://www.ohiohistory.org/etcetera/...bumPage01.html

http://www.bceo.org/78blizzardrev.html

Blizzards
 

I was living in Dayton at the time. Drove from Middletown to Dayton that night up I-75 by staying in the tracks of the few semi's crazy enough to still be on the road. Once home, the only thing that saved me was a 7-11 on the corner. They got snowed in too. "Oh, thank heaven for 7-11". I had just left the OHNG,Trp D, 1-238th Cav. My buddies out of Columbus did a lot of great flying to save people and livestock.

Obviously I'm not recommending anyone depend on a 7-11 for survival, but you sometimes get what you need in the strangest places.

OK, I'll try to stop posting for a while. Being retired is a bitch!

Yep, she was a bad one. I remember the 107th ONG out Stow Ohio coming through on M-113's and large trucks on the third day. Then the air element of the 107th out of Akron Canton Airport provided air rescue. The same 10th ONG was the one at Kent State back in 1970.