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x SF med 05-19-2006 12:59

Peregrino-
you forgot that they also carry the Tyvek coveralls "painting coveralls / asbestos removal coveralls" for a very reasonable price - a great investment, along with a piezo electric (squeeze) flashlight -- Actually I use the tyvek, N95 / nitrile combo to sand and paint the boat.

Peregrino 05-19-2006 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by x_sf_med
Peregrino-
you forgot that they also carry the Tyvek coveralls "painting coveralls / asbestos removal coveralls" for a very reasonable price - a great investment, along with a piezo electric (squeeze) flashlight -- Actually I use the tyvek, N95 / nitrile combo to sand and paint the boat.


x_sf_med Thanks, talk about completely missing a cheap alternative. Good catch. I'm actually looking at a product called "Frog Togs" (available at Bass Pro Shops - where HH6 wants to go shopping Sunday to enhance our own preparedness posture!). It's waterproof, inexpensive, disposable, available in a range of colors that includes "Mossy Oak" camoflauge, has an integral hood, and can be sealed with the ubiquitous duct tape to make an acceptable NBC suit. (NTM - I believe the base fabric is Tyvek!) It resembles the last generation (that I know of) SOF emergency NBC exposure suit, the "wad it up and throw it away as soon as you've exacuated the threat area" one. Good call - Peregrino

x SF med 05-19-2006 13:30

P-
I've said it in other posts - look for Spinnaker repair tape - strong, light, waterproof, not shiny, and pretty cheap too $6/roll - comes in black too.

try layline.com -- it's a sailing supplier

Monsoon65 05-19-2006 14:57

Coveralls
 
Just thought of something and I don't know if it's correct, but if you don't have throwaway coveralls, what about an old rainsuit or similiar? It can be hosed off if exposed, and I don't think particles will stick to something that's slick like a vinyl rainjacket/pants.

The Reaper 05-19-2006 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsoon65
Just thought of something and I don't know if it's correct, but if you don't have throwaway coveralls, what about an old rainsuit or similiar? It can be hosed off if exposed, and I don't think particles will stick to something that's slick like a vinyl rainjacket/pants.

Radio, Bio, or Chem?

TR

Monsoon65 05-19-2006 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper
Radio, Bio, or Chem?

TR

Radio. Fallout particles can be washed off. You just need to do it in a place where you won't track it back inside your house, etc. I don't think it's much use in a Bio or Chem incident.

The Reaper 05-20-2006 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsoon65
Radio. Fallout particles can be washed off. You just need to do it in a place where you won't track it back inside your house, etc. I don't think it's much use in a Bio or Chem incident.

Depending upon the permeability of the suit, it could work for some forms of Chem or Bio.

We used to be told that in the event you did not have your chem suit, the rainsuit or poncho was better than nothing.

Most bio weapons have to be aerosolized to distribute, most other vectors are too unreliable. As long as you wear a mask and do not inhale the agent, get it in an open wound, your eyes, ears, nose, or mouth, and washed yourself off with a decontaminant after exposure and before unmasking, you should be okay.

Thus the need for a lot of hot water, bleach, and a slurry pit.

Unles someone wants to talk about air further, and we can revisit it, that brings us to our next topic, First Aid, Medicine, and Escape gear.

The idea here was that if you are trapped, not breathing or and bleeding out, the rest of the stuff on the list is a distant consideration.

Thoughts?

TR

PSM 05-20-2006 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper
Escape gear.

With earthquakes in mind, we have a 3' wrecking bar and
2xD cell flashlight next to each sleeping position. We should have roll-up escape ladders for the upstairs bedrooms, but do not (yet). Perhaps a small FAK next to each bed would be a good idea, too.

Pat

MtnGoat 05-20-2006 16:10

disasters ready??
 
What happens during a disaster weather it a tornado to a Tsunami it all up to you. You have to know where your located at and who your there with - Family, Friend, Coworkers, ETC. You have to be ready for the world to come down on you. Just like get into that new Hotel or Club or restaurant. Do you know how to get out of it when you first get them? Where are the Fire Exits, Delivery doors, how do you get to the back door from the restaurant?

You can break it down by the areas you live in. Like the western USA - so you don't have hurricanes or flood you have wildfires and maybe earthquakes. So what you need compared to me here in NC is different. I like the 3" wrecking bar next to each bed. Great Idea - have to tell me relatives in Hell Fran Area, CA. (9th Dist)

I think some things that I feel that are need in disaster like a hurricane or an earthquakes are mobile communication and electronic (C-E) vehicle platform capable of operating in an urban to rural environment in support of Federal, State and Local Government emergency management incident. Something that is Four X Four and can be dual fueled if not Hybrid fuel system. Something that can support all Bands of CE and provide cellular and has a cross-band repeaters. I know there are some large tractor trailer systems out there, but they are to big. You need some in the HUMMVE or van size. We learned so there being made now.

Also I think an expandable tractor trailer system that is a mobile medical center. Not a hospital in the sense but some that can be set up to provide medical care and move fast once it is needed by the changes in the environment. During a disaster the events can change very fast. you have 4-5 of these 54 Trailers you can have a very mobile medical clinic.

With your family you can think the same way just smaller. TR and other have posted some really good points to think about. We in the military cross training with other skills so we all know how to do them to a point. Cross training is needed with everyone. If you don't know how to start the generator, work the computer reporting program, or even the radio system. Start the radio from a "Cold Start" then you need to cross training. Everyone is a specialties, but you need to know how to do the other guys JOB to a point.

Things that I like are:
- mobile satellite telephone communications
- I got to have XM satellite radio - just wished in work outside of the USA :(
+ real world I would like a broadcast reception with mobile satellite ability and local television reception for all levels
- onboard navigational system information
- wireless Internet access best a satellite
- intra-team communications all bands
+A 8.5 kW AC/DC generator power source for equipment and external ancillaries.
+Pack the family bags so if needed we can go. Wife knows what file draw need to be loaded up and grab the small fire safe.
+ Everyone knows what they are to do, just like in a fire drill. Maybe I'll do one tonight and see if the kids get to the mailbox again.

I think listing what your what type of disasters are with in your Area (AO) and telling us what you do to prepare for them and/or what your local Gov't does. Would better provide ideas on how "you" can be prepared, even our families in the disaster that they face.

.02 VG

Monsoon65 05-20-2006 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by MtnGoat

I think listing what your what type of disasters are with in your Area (AO) and telling us what you do to prepare for them and/or what your local Gov't does. Would better provide ideas on how "you" can be prepared, even our families in the disaster that they face.

I'm within a stones throw of Three Mile Island (TMI)! I think even "minor" problems would be "major"! My plan is to head upwind of anything. Problem will be the roads. All will be designated "outbound", but I don't think that will last for too long. How many parents are going to leave their kids in the hands of the schools? Most will try to get them, so it will be a huge parking lot on the highways.

The Reaper 05-20-2006 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsoon65
I'm within a stones throw of Three Mile Island (TMI)! I think even "minor" problems would be "major"! My plan is to head upwind of anything. Problem will be the roads. All will be designated "outbound", but I don't think that will last for too long. How many parents are going to leave their kids in the hands of the schools? Most will try to get them, so it will be a huge parking lot on the highways.

I would say that thinking outside the box, you need to get off the roads. Do you have access to a boat? How about four wheelers or dirt bikes? That evac should not require any large amount of luggage, as it should theoretically be short term.

Let's try to keep this on track with first aid/medical and escape (being emergency escape from some sort of confinement).

If you are near TMI, live downwind, and expect some sort of additional problems, on the first aid medical side, I would think about Potassium Iodide pills, suits or slickers, and hoods or masks.

For escape items like the wrecking bars, axes, and shovels could also be helpful, or chainsaws, as would knowing how to use a scissor, hydraulic, or Hi-Lift type auto jack to move debris. Having a few, 2x6s, 4x4s or other shoring material to stabilize debris or structures could be handy. If not a winch, definitely a come-along, some rope or cable, and some chain.

I would ditch the D-Cell lights for 123 powered lights. The run time and shelf life are significantly better and the light is tremendously more powerful with the 123 lights.

How about you paramedics and firemen? What would you want to keep handy for self-extrication or rescue from collapsed structures? A Hurst Tool is probably not practical.

TR

x SF med 05-20-2006 20:20

since I do a lot of sailing now, I have a lot of gear that is "dual purpose" - when racing you always have to be pepared for an emergency, and the gear has to be portable.

Now to ask a question to answer a question - should I be thinking as a trained 18D, or joe anybody,with minimal if any training? I'll break it into 2 parts for the med gear.
1. Just your average joe - a good basic prepackaged first aid kit should work - anything else is going to overwhelm the user. You don't want anything but basic meds - aspirin, acetominophen, ibuprofen (yes all 3 - they do lsightly different things), oil of cloves, a good triple antibiotic ointment, betadine, possibly a basic broad spectrum oral antibiotic, anti diarrheal, WATER PURIFICATION (betedine, bleach, heat tabs, something...) contaminated water will kill the patient. Blankets, basic splints. That should cover the novice for a medical kit.
2. for the 18Ds - go big or stay home - rebuild your full M5 for the field - to include the stainless items, meds and a splint set - you will be the 1st trained provider - 'nuff said.

A lot of wrong can be done itf the untrained try to practice medicine - I think that's a subject I won't touch - it took 15 months of training and a couple of years of hands on experience under senior medics and docs in hospitals to get really good. for the average joe - join a volunteer ambulance squad, take classes, and keep your skills up.

Escape fear.
1. a good marine band vhf handheld rxtx - at least 5 mhz as a top end with scannable wxband - mine is a rechargeable (wall or car or boat) and was about $150, wt about a lb, at West Marine -it will pull all 9 NOAA stations, and all 99 mb freqs - open and closed - commo is escape gear.
2. a diesel vehicle - mine gets 44mpg - at slow speeds near 50mpg and 700+ miles to the tank - and it will burn #2 heating oil so I can siphon from farms, fuel tanks, semis, and homes (get a mi-t-vac it's great for siponing, and a pela 6000 oil extractor -it's got a 2 gal holding tank)
3. Rope/biners/seats, blocks, pitons, gloves
4. Knives - a good survival (I need to find out how to get on the list for the Yarbrough, all the links are broken), a 'rope wrench' - rigging knife, and a couple of good folders.
5. foul weather gear - breathable
6. packable food
7. water purification / canteens
8. lensatic compass & maps (old school), and a handheld waas/whc gps
9. boots!!! hi-tec magnums are a good all around - and my issued Chips are still in great shape for a heavy duty
10. sleeping bag and poncho liner
11. if you are not in my state a rem 700 chambered 7.62 Nato, zeiss 40x400 passive ir scope, and ammo to your desired weight level
12. again if you are not in my state - handun of choice see ammo note above.
13. chem lights
14. dual purpose short baton / breaker bar
15. piezo electric flashlight and an led tec light ot two, small, lightweight, and bright (non tactical, right)
somebody else take over, this ruck is nearly full - I'm assuming this is a nontactical, true get your ass out of this AO situation - right?

The Reaper 05-20-2006 20:35

Hey, focus here.:o

Good input, but we will get to wheels and bug out kits later.

What we are asking about now is first aid kits, medical supplies, and escape equipment.

Great medical list, but here is also where the N95 masks and surgical gloves go.

I would also add a rescusitation mask. You may not want to put your lips on everyone you are trying to help. An electronic BP cuff, a thermometer or three, and maybe a stethescope.

Nothing wrong with throwing in the Kerlix and Coban for trauma treatment, maybe an eyepatch or two. Several cravats. Povidone iodine. Neosporin. Eye drops. A topical analgesic. A syringe for irrigating, and some sterile saline. Cold packs. Bug juice. Moleskin and Tincture of Benzoin. A set of EMT shears. A good pair of tweezers. A set of forceps, maybe a hemostat. Some scalpel blades. Some 2x2 and 4x4 sponges. Large safety pins. Surgical tape. Lots of bandaids, some Super Glue, and some butterflies or steri-strips. A tourniquet, if you know how to use one. Same with splints, IV sets, and bags. Only if you know how to use them, or expect to be with someone who does.

For meds, an anti-diarrheal, an anti-emetic, some broad-spectrum antibiotics, cold meds, Benadryl, hydrocortisone, a few serious pain meds, if you have the prescription, aceteminophen, ibuprofen, and aspirin. Antacids. Water purification tabs. Oral rehydration salts. Glucose. The oil of cloves is a good call. Many physicians will hook you up with the basic scripts if you tell them that you are planning some overseas travel and want to take along some vacation savers.

If you are on meds, try to build up a few months stockpile, but watch the expiration dates. I would want at least 90 days supply on hand in the fridge.

Some of this could be in a portable kit as well as a fully stocked home kit. One of the biggest things is knowing where everything is. You do not want to start searching when you need a one-handed tourniquet. Get organized, keep an inventory (with expiration dates) and anything that you use gets replaced ASAP.

Damn, you are right, this IS getting heavy! And don't be trying to pawn your gear off on me to carry.

TR

mugwump 05-21-2006 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper
Great medical list, but here is also where the N95 masks and surgical gloves go.
TR

Great thread, I'm trying to keep up!

For a home kit, and with a disease-centric focus: While N95 and surgical gloves are best, there are cheap alternatives. Rubber dish washing gloves, goggles/shooting glasses, and a bandanna are better than nothing. I presented this idea around a table with a bunch of physicians (we were talking about "I waited too long to prepare and now everything is gone" alternatives. They immediately scoffed and attacked the idea -- wraparound glasses and a bandanna won't filer out 0.5 micron viruses (duh). I pointed out that a major infection route -- possibly THE major infection route -- is touching the mouth, nose or eyes with contaminated fingers. The bandanna and glasses prevent these unconscious actions.

Hmmm they said, maybe you have something there. (Score one for the guy with no letters after his name!)

If you have to go out for food/medicine/whatever during a pandemic, place a dishpan with a 6% bleach solution in the garage/back porch before you go. Step into the pan (thin rubber "Wellies" would be a good footwear choice), remove outerwear and then drop gloves, glasses, mask into the disinfectant, then step out of boots. Then wash yourself carefully with soap and water.

Sunlight is a great disinfectant for clothing -- let it sit for "several" days before re-use. (I am investigating if there is research that says how long H5N1 lasts in sunlight -- I have heard less than 2 days on dry surfaces but need confirmation).

Get a couple of extra bags of pool shock to make sure you don't have to skimp on disinfecting.

mugwump 05-21-2006 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper
I would say that thinking outside the box, you need to get off the roads.

Follow the utility right-of-way. At least around here, there is a fan of right-of-ways leading away from the reactor in all directions (all those towers marching to the horizon) and they are well maintained. You'll need the tools TR lists -- you will hit locked gates. A good topo map will show the routes. Do a recce for ones that go into the prevailing wind to look for traps (impassable embankments, etc.)

Sorry, back to med kits.

The Reaper 05-21-2006 08:50

mugwump:

The pool shock was a great suggestiuon, I have since seen other sites with that info.

That solved the problem of the bulk and shelf life of liquid chlorine bleach.

Having had a pool, I was familiar with the product, though it did take a while to find a product locally without a lot of additional chemicals like vinyl conditioner and algecide.

I also think that the liquid chlorine in the multi-gallon jugs from the pool supply store might be available fairly late in an emergency (if it is during pool season) and would work as well, just not as concentrated.

Your pan of chlorine is essentially a slurry pit.

TR

MtnGoat 05-21-2006 09:09

Living with TMI as a Mountain view
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsoon65
I'm within a stones throw of Three Mile Island (TMI)! I think even "minor" problems would be "major"! My plan is to head upwind of anything. Problem will be the roads. All will be designated "outbound", but I don't think that will last for too long. How many parents are going to leave their kids in the hands of the schools? Most will try to get them, so it will be a huge parking lot on the highways.

Monsoon - Man o' Man live next to TMI

Age of kids will drive this. Look if TMI is and a China Syndrome then you and they need to act. Yes, no school will do the right thing. They need to get out - as TR said out of the box thinking now.
Me I would see what the school and school districts plan is for TMI in the different levels. They should have a written plan that is public release. Just like here in NC they have for Hurricanes coming through here. See what there plan is for you kids in their schools. Different ages will have a different plan. Take their plan and make it yours.

1) Can you kids leave the school? With you and friend or family member Who is closer? Can the leave on their own, do you want them to? If they can where do they go, can you have a meeting spot? They can move there and meet up with whom ever is to get them. Like you say, the parking lots and school roads will be packed, I just look at when I drop my off or pick them up. Madness!

2) as TR said - off road - you have a 4x4 Vehicle? Well that cougar that you drive can still go off road, it all in how you drive it. Do you drive with a "Survival" pack in your car. So many Americans do even have a roadside kit in there cars. In AK you have to have by law at standard set of equipment. But do people really carry them when the live in Anchorage or Fairbanks, AK. So what do you really have in your car to survival on.

3) Your Movement - during a TMI melt down your not really looking at down power lines or tress. Or are you? DO you need escape items like the wrecking bars, axes, and shovels or Hi-Lift type auto jack to move debris. It maybe need, why because you have DONE a pre-route drive on the off road routes out of the threat area. There may be some trees in the roadway, they were there on your RECON. Having some 2x6s, 4x4s vehicles could work but do you have them now and does your family ride them off road? Having a small bit of shoring material to stabilize debris or structures would be handy; can you find this along the roadway? If not then having some would work out - plan ahead. Does your vehicle have a winch? Then like TR said definitely get a come-along, some 1" rope or cable, and some chain, along with a towel that can be thrown over the rope to chains if your pulling on something.

4) The city or town your in have an Emergency Plan for a melt down, Yes, but do you know what the plan is? Find out, its preobaly on line. Looking at what their EVAC routes plans are and plan you own on the backroads that you know.

5) Medically wise - you have to plan for basic ABCs

lrd 05-21-2006 10:25

Great thread. We begin the region's annual exercise this week in preparation for the upcoming hurricane season, moving up a COR level each day. I'm reading through the instruction now, checking it against TR's posts.

We are at sea level and have to be able to evacuate housing in 30 minutes, so I would ask that portability be considered in this discussion. We used to keep a hurricane/tsunami kit in the trunk of the car, but I need to be able to carry what I'll need here. That makes water a big issue for me. Also, we have a lot of families with small children. If anyone has specific recommendations for evacuating children, they would be welcome. My kids were in middle-school by the time we went through our first tsunami.

The Reaper 05-21-2006 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrd
Great thread. We begin the region's annual exercise this week in preparation for the upcoming hurricane season, moving up a COR level each day. I'm reading through the instruction now, checking it against TR's posts.

We are at sea level and have to be able to evacuate housing in 30 minutes, so I would ask that portability be considered in this discussion. We used to keep a hurricane/tsunami kit in the trunk of the car, but I need to be able to carry what I'll need here. That makes water a big issue for me. Also, we have a lot of families with small children. If anyone has specific recommendations for evacuating children, they would be welcome. My kids were in middle-school by the time we went through our first tsunami.


There should be plenty of water up in the mountains. Make sure that you have the ability to purify it. For the most compact method other than the WP tablets, look at the MSR MIOX. Great little device. All you need is salt and batteries.

You will need containers as well, several companies, including Coleman make collapsible 5 gallon water bladders.

Food would be another consideration, MREs or freeze-dried would be a good bet in your circumstances. At least three days worth, more if you have the money and space.

If you are going to stay in the woods, take the usual camping essentials. If you are going to a shelter, focus on comfort items that might be useful there.

A tsunami can be such a short notice event that it is more likely than not that the roads will be jammed. Have the gear in a ruck or at least bags with straps if you have to go to foot. Bikes might be a good idea as well.

HTH. Let me know if you have specific questions.

TR

lrd 05-21-2006 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper
There should be plenty of water up in the mountains. Make sure that you have the ability to purify it. For the most compact method other than the WP tablets, look at the MSR MIOX. Great little device. All you need is salt and batteries.

You will need containers as well, several companies, including Coleman make collapsible 5 gallon water bladders.

Food would be another consideration, MREs or freeze-dried would be a good bet in your circumstances. At least three days worth, more if you have the money and space.

If you are going to stay in the woods, take the usual camping essentials. If you are going to a shelter, focus on comfort items that might be useful there.

A tsunami can be such a short notice event that it is more likely than not that the roads will be jammed. Have the gear in a ruck or at least bags with straps if you have to go to foot. Bikes might be a good idea as well.

HTH. Let me know if you have specific questions.

TR

Thanks, TR.

Fortunately, the families here spend a lot of free time up in Waimea Canyon (where we'll evacuate to on-island) 4-wheeling, hunting, fishing, hiking and riding the trails on mountain bikes. Like you said, there is plenty of water but it isn't potable (lots of wild pigs up on the ridges).

I need to make sure my ladies are prepared to drive, since the majority of the guys will be in the air. Any recommendations for moving supplies on mountain trails other than rucks? I was thinking about bags for the mountain bikes that the older kids could ride. We'll be carrying the small children.

The Reaper 05-21-2006 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrd
Thanks, TR.

Fortunately, the families here spend a lot of free time up in Waimea Canyon (where we'll evacuate to on-island) 4-wheeling, hunting, fishing, hiking and riding the trails on mountain bikes. Like you said, there is plenty of water but it isn't potable (lots of wild pigs up on the ridges).

I need to make sure my ladies are prepared to drive, since the majority of the guys will be in the air. Any recommendations for moving supplies on mountain trails other than rucks? I was thinking about bags for the mountain bikes that the older kids could ride. We'll be carrying the small children.


Llamas or mules.

Failing that, I would say saddlebags, bike panniers, or I have seen a number of rickshaw looking bicycle wheeled carts. During the SE Asian wars, a lot of supplies (several hundred pounds per bike) were moved on very small trails using bicycles with a handlebar extension loaded up and walked on the trail.

If you are already 4-wheeling, why not use that, with a small trailer?

TR

lrd 05-21-2006 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper
If you are already 4-wheeling, why not use that, with a small trailer?

TR

There is only one paved road up the canyon. In heavy rains, the dirt roads are slick as snot and flooded. The first stage of evacuation can be done in vehicles, but if we have to move on up it'll be on foot.

The Reaper 05-21-2006 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrd
There is only one paved road up the canyon. In heavy rains, the dirt roads are slick as snot and flooded. The first stage of evacuation can be done in vehicles, but if we have to move on up it'll be on foot.

Yeah, I have spent some time in the Kahukus and know what you mean.

Tsunami coming, you are heading into the mountains afoot with everybody else, move light and fast.

Worry about everything else later. You can eat the guavas if you have to.

TR

Monsoon65 05-21-2006 15:23

Evac/First Aid
 
Thanks for all the great ideas!!

Yes, I do have a 4x4. Getting off road to evac would be the best idea. I'll need to find the city route out to avoid them. I don't think I'd have to go really far, just out of the contamination zone. Maybe 1-2 hours out (75-100 miles?) I have a mountain bike I can use to transport if necessary, or just hump it out on foot. A strong will to live is a great motivator.

I already carry a first aid kit in the car. I have a ruck packed with a few items in case I have to leave in a hurry. I do need to work on water purification, tho. I have shovels/pry bar/etc in the garage I can toss in the truck.

For first aid, I'd think you'd be limited on what you know. An IV set up might be nice, but unless you know how to use it, it's just extra weight. Either pack stuff you can use, or learn how. Looks like I might be visiting our medics for some training.

Antibiotics are necessary, but has anyone thought about vitamins? Might be useful to suppliment food and things the body might be missing. Something like a multi-vitamin?

MtnGoat: You mentioned a Cougar being an "off road vehicle". A friend saw a guy driving the AlCan in a Caddy!! Wonder what shape it was when he arrived?

mugwump 05-21-2006 18:22

Medkit addition (FOG Alert)
 
Reading glasses in a hardshell case.

MtnGoat 05-21-2006 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsoon65
MtnGoat: You mentioned a Cougar being an "off road vehicle". A friend saw a guy driving the AlCan in a Caddy!! Wonder what shape it was when he arrived?

On Bragg you would see all kinds of vehciles driving the fire breaks. So with that said - you can drive anything down just about any road. You don't need a 4x4 to EVAC you family or self. You just got to know how to drive something right. I've driven a Cougar down some missed up roads doing some "off roading".
Sounds like you have a good plan - just look up the city routes to be safe.

The Reaper 05-21-2006 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by mugwump
Reading glasses in a hardshell case.

You mean a spare set as back-ups for the primary ones you have on you.:D

That reminds me, if you are looking at an extended period without competent medical care, I would add a med book or two to the kit.

Anyone else have recommendations beyond the SF Med Handbook, "Ditch Medicine" and "Where There Is No Doctor"?

TR

MtnGoat 05-21-2006 20:21

I know this isn't medical but I would add the FM 21-76 "Survival" or how is it now 3-05.76. Having a good Survival book that covers you AO is always great to have.

Cincinnatus 05-21-2006 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper
Anyone else have recommendations beyond the SF Med Handbook, "Ditch Medicine" and "Where There Is No Doctor"?

I think most people would be well served by Tilton's "Wilderness First Responder" (ISBN 0-7627-2801-9)

Actually taking the course, either through NOLS, SOLO, or someone else would be better still. The class is eight or nine days and will run several hundred dollars, but is money well spent.

mugwump 05-21-2006 22:24

Wilderness Medicine, Beyond First Aid by William Forgey. Great book with thoughtfully worked up prescription and OTC med lists. I actually gave this to my internist to look over a couple of years back -- I was trying to get him to write me scripts for the recommended prescription drugs. He agreed on the condition that I followed the administration guidelines in this book, which he thought were spot on.

Cincinnatus 05-22-2006 08:35

Thanks, mugwump, that looks interesting. I'd never heard of this book, but given your recommendation and the five star rating from reviwers on amazon I think I'll pick it up.

A thought that occurred to me after I posted the above was that the format of the Tilton book, large paperback (8.5" x 11"?) doesn't lend itself so well to a BOB. I believe the SF Med Handbook is both smaller format and designed to hold up better - waterproof paper, three ring binding, etc. So probabley a better choice overall, though the Tilton book is aimed for those who know little and very well laid out.

mugwump 05-22-2006 20:20

Burns, gut diseases such as cholera, and the current strain of H5N1 can all cause life-threatening dehydration. If the patient is to survive, you must replace the water and electrolytes that have been lost. The following is a simple, inexpensive solution that you can mix up using ingredients easily found in any grocery store (available this week -- next week, ???). All the ingredients store well, so get them now.

Specific to Flu: Note that administering oral rehydration solution and sufficient Tylenol (don't give aspirin/ibuprofen/other NSAIDs to kids under 12 with the flu -- stock up on Tylenol generic acetaminophen) to keep the body temperature no higher than 101 F are two recommended home care treatments for flu. If available, administer statins (Lipitor, Zocor) to ease the inflammatory response (cytokine storm) caused by H5N1.

Expedient Oral Rehydration Solution (based upon WHO formula, revised 2004)

This formula is based upon the readily available "Morton Lite Salt Mixture" found in blue 11 oz. containers. The container should say "Half the Sodium of Table Salt" and the first two ingredients should be salt and potassium chloride.

Morton Lite Salt 1 tsp.
Baking Soda 1/3 tsp.
Table Sugar 2 tablespoons
Potable Water 1 Liter (= 1 Qt. + 2 tablespoons)

Chill if possible. This tastes quite salty to someone who isn't dehydrated. You can mix it with sugar-free Kool-Aid or Crystal Lite or whatever as long as it is sugar-free. Add the minimum flavoring to make it palatable. Avoid products with sugar or the artificial sweetener Splenda (sucralose) which will change the osmolality of the solution and possible worsen diarrhea. If the patient will drink it plain so much the better.

Have small children start with 1 tsp. every 5 - 10 minutes, which is usually quite well tolerated. The amount can be increased every 30 - 60 minutes (2 tsp, 3 tsp, 2 tablespoons, etc. every 5 - 10 minutes).

Adults can go on the same increasing schedule but start with a tablespoon.

If the patient is moderately to severely dehydrated (skin "tenting" is present - when pinched skin does not return to the original flat shape; compare with your own skin) and unresponsive you can still use an eye dropper to introduce small amounts of solution into the mouth - I'm talking drop-by-drop over time, not pumping whole droppers full repeatedly into the mouth. Over several hours you can administer a significant amount of solution - tedious but potentially life-saving.

Cincinnatus 05-22-2006 22:44

I recently saw "Disater Medicine" spoken well of on another board, here's the link;

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/032...Fencoding=UTF8

I have not read it, and it may be a bit outside of what we're discussing here (i.e. it seems like a book you'd keep as a reference if you were "bugging in" or might like to have read before bugging out, rather than something you'd include in your BOB), but it looks interesting.

mugwump 05-23-2006 08:27

Cheap, Compact Water Storage
 
Dehydrated water! Kidding. :)

Sorry to jump ahead to water storage, but I think this is a prudent option for many and these things are on sale now for the upcoming holiday weekend. Like the "water purification on the cheap" solution it is inexpensive and minimizes "situation normal" storage requirements. It is not useful in a bolt out of the blue water contamination scenario but it would be useful in a situation where you get advanced warning, e.g. hurricane, pandemic, etc.

Current US government guidelines call for storing a two week supply of food and water - one gallon / person / day. For a family of 4 that is 56 gallons. That is eleven Wally World 5 gal containers or one 55 gal food grade barrel. Traditional supplementary emergency water sources include your hot water heater, toilet reservoir, and bathtubs (turn off the main water inlet to the house if you suspect contamination - treat as contaminated if unsure).

Fifty to sixty gallon barrels are about $70 a pop without shipping, are tremendously heavy when full and take up a lot of room. The small, cheap 5-gal containers from Wally World are also costly in the numbers required and leak with annoying regularity.

An alternative solution is a flexible rigid-sided (not inflatable) child's wading pool with a painter's plastic drop cloth as a cover. If unopened the pools store in a small space (a 6' diameter pool is 6"x6"x16") and they are quite inexpensive (I spent $14 on a six footer on sale at Ace). They can be set up in a garage, basement or other protected area when your particular warning threshold has been reached and they hold a fair amount of water:

Six foot diameter X 1 foot depth = 28 cu. feet = 209 gallons

Eight foot diameter X 2 foot depth = 101 cu. feet = 756 gallons

Pick up additional thin plastic drop sheets for lining you bathtub before filling for storage. You can block the drain this way (mine always leak slightly) and you can increase the fill by up to 25% by blocking the overfill drain.

Plastic/vinyl contamination? Least of my worries if this has to be used, and hopefully it's only short term. If you are really worried use the water for clothes washing/bathing/flushing and save your more palatable sources for drinking.

mugwump

PSM 05-23-2006 11:49

Water Storage
 
The empty 5 liter bladders that boxed wine comes in are refillable. (Of course you have to empty them first :D ) Left in the box they are easily stackable; out of the box they can be frozen. Also, in the box, they can be grabbed on the way out the door if you are in a hurry.

Pat

Pete 05-23-2006 12:17

Contacts
 
Read all the way through to Pat's post about drinking the wine:D .

OK, just a thought here. I think I picked this up from the Red Cross or FEMA site after Katrina.

With all the active families with cell phones now days you need a contact plan. Everybody just assumes they'll call all the family in the area. The towers may be down, phones decharged, lost and individuals making their way out of the area to evacuation shelters.

Every family member that runs around town by themselves needs to know the number to a contact person outside the area/state/region. In a disaster call that number and "check in". Little ones should be able to give "Granny Mary Johnson in Bugtussle, MO."

Pete

jasonglh 05-23-2006 13:13

I went to my local farm supply store (Rural King) today and bought some used plastic 55 gallon drums for $8.99 each. They have industrial grade 55 gal trash bags you can use as liners. Requires a bit more effort but seemed better than shelling out $50 for a food grade drum.

They also have large water tanks in various sizes that were not unreasonably priced. Many people that live in the country buy them to haul water from the city out to their farm. They ranged from 35 gal on up to 3000 gal

JPH 05-23-2006 21:17

How long will the sealed 5 gallon water containers for office water coolers last. And cost?

mugwump 05-23-2006 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH
How long will the sealed 5 gallon water containers for office water coolers last. And cost?

Where's The Reaper? I'll try to fill in...

Good question; I don't know. Find out and report back.

jasonglh 05-23-2006 23:05

When I ordered the 2.5 gal springwater I was told to keep it in a cool dark place like a closet and the shelf life was indefinate so long as the seal was not damaged.


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