Reloading
 

Reloading discussion moved from another thread.

Thanks R.B.

I'm going to start hand-loading my .270's in the near future. Anyone have any thoughts on reloading?

Doc

hmmm...what kind of press are you getting...?

I have never hand-loaded before and open to suggestions in all aspects of this endeavor.

Thanks,

Doc

depends...if all i were going to load was ammunition for a bolt-action rifle, where accuracy was Job #1, i would get an RCBS Rock Chucker or something like that...you load one round at a time, one component at a time...it is slow, but you are handcrafting each round...if you plan on doing a good deal of shooting in the semi-automatic mode, with either rifle or pistol, i'd recommend a Dillon progressive press...i have an RL 500 from around 1987 that i need to send back for reconditioning that works well...you can reload individual rounds in the same fashion as an RCBS, but you can also crank out a boxload of pistol or 5.56 rounds, as well...

my $0.02

Doc - I would look at getting one of the RCBS Rock chucker kits first. A lot of guys have started hand loading and have found it to be too tedious for their tastes. They soon lose interest and are out a bunch of money if they go high end right off the bat. The nice thing about the rock chucker is that it is versatile and can become your back up your progressive breaks down or needs to go in for anything. It also gets you started and allows you to have the basics that will be needed regardless of the press you wind up using. If you are only going to load for accuracy then that is all you need.

Be careful though, this can become a very addictive hobby with thousands of dollars spent for that last little .001 moa of accuracy. :D

Concur with the Rockchucker.

I started loading for IPSC with one, eventually retiring it for match loading only, using a Dillon 550 for mass production.

If I were only going to do match or hunting loads, I would still get the Rockchucker. If I were running 1000 rounds at the time, I would go with the 550 or 650 from Dillon.

HTH.

TR

Doc - LR1947 is right on the money. If you're going to reload go to Midway or one of the other discounters and buy the RCBS Master Kit. It'll get you started for a reasonable price and everything needed (for entry level reloading) is conveniently bundled. It'll get you started and let you learn. If it works out and you realize enough benefits to get hooked on it then you can start doing the process analysis and throwing money at the problem. Every little incremental improvement after that will cost more - sometimes lots more, either time or money and they're both valuable. FWIW - I've still got (and use) the same Rockchucker I bought in 1981. My Dillon is 14 y/o and going strong. And I'm still spending money to "improve" the process. It's a never ending battle. HTH - Peregrino

P.S. - You will need that quality scope (and excellent record keeping) to realize the full potential of your reloading efforts.

Edited to add: I followed a similar route to TR's though I've actually gone to loading even match rifle ammo on the Dillon. The only rounds I "tweak" are the ones I use at 600m for competition. (I'm not a benchrest shooter - the Dillon gives me one round of moa(-) ammo every time I pull the handle which is all I need at the shorter ranges.)

Doc,

I think I have an old rock crusher in a box downstairs.. I`ll look and see whats there. I`ll let ya know what I find.

Also known as thumb crusher when not paying attention. :eek:

I would like to add my thoughts. Some thoughts would be depending on what you want to load for and how many rounds you plane to load for would help in press choice. The Reaper brought mentioned that. I have a Orange crusher (Lyman, had rock crushers) and two 550B's.

Obviously for massive reloading, Dillion, IMHO, is the only way to go. If your doing small loads amounts, say 50 for pistol, RCBS basic kit. Also for target rifle, Neck sizing is all that is needed if the brass will be used in the same rifle, full length sizing will over stress the brass faster. Again the RCBS is a good way to go. I use a RCBS primer seater for precision loads, slower but a better feel.

Problem with Dillion, it is hard to go back to a single stage press after using one. It is a very versatile press though, more expensive. It does a decent job even for more accurate loads too.

But Boys being Boys given time, if you get into reloading, there will come a time where you will need more space for reloading equipment and shortage of equipment won't be a issue. I load for 36 different cartridges, 5 shotgun gauges, and have to form a few cases that are no longer available. I mentioned to a friend, Reloading is to shooting as foreplay is to sex. I have been reloading for over 30 years, and I still have could add to my reloading equipment. Neat stuff out there.

I was raised as a kid with an RCBS Rockchucker on the work bench so its pretty much all I know. But Dillon has them beats hand down with their calendars and posters! :D
Attachment 5140

i agee with TR regarding match loads...while i got decent results with the Dillon, i got much better results loading one round at a time, using a powder trickler to get my powder weights rights...i'd say the Dillon was within 1-5% in terms of powder weight, while i could get right to the gnat's back using a powder scale...once again, my $0.02...

Funny that the guy that takes these pictures for Dillion is supposed to be a "former" 5th Gp SF soldier. Everytime I've gone to Dillion (even with another former 5th Gp Vietnam Vet) this guy always seems to be "gone".

Everytime time I've gone, I've asked to meet him, everytime time I was told "he's here, let me go get him" and when I tell them I'm also a former 5th Gp Soldier he is always "out to lunch".

Funny....

Anyone know if he's really a 5th Gp Vietnam vet?

Sorry Doc for the Hi-jack....

TS

Thanks for the replies. I'll start out as suggested and see how it goes. I don't shoot the .270 a lot. Maybe 20-40 rounds a month at the nearby range. I have always wanted to reload, so now is as good a time as any to start.

Scotty,

Go ahead with the optics plan if you will. I will wait and see what you come up with on the re-loader too. Thanks a bunch for your help.

Doc

No problem TS.

Doc

Dang, I wish I had weapons instructors and co-students like those in the posters.....

I use a Lyman electronic trickle scale for my "precision" loads. They are 338 Win Mag, and 300 Ultra Mag. If I had it to do again, I am not sure I would have not gone to the RCBS or PACT, scale/measure combo if I had to buy one again.

Doc:

I will head in a different direction from conventional wisdom.

Redding Presses and Redding Competition Rifle Dies.

You want an inexpensive kit to start with? Believe it or not -- get a Lee kit that has its Classic Cast press. Cost will be under $150.00 for the kit and you will never get rid of the press or powder measure. The rest of the stuff will eventually break and Lee dies aren't real good. However, it is sufficient for producing good ammo and is cheap enough for you to determine if you want to continue in hand loading.

I use a number of presses and reloading items. I don't care who makes them -- only that they give me the results I want. Redding gives the results.

Sure, I have a Rock Chucker. Have owned it for twenty five years. It has one purpose in my loading area. I have a collet bullet puller on it and use it to pull bullets. I do use one piece of RCBS gear for loading. I bought a bench primer seater at a gun show for ten dollars and it is very handy when seating primers.

Oh yes, what ever you get -- get someone who has loaded many thousands of rounds over the years to take you step by step through your process. Ensure he has all ten fingers and both eyes are original. That is an indicator that the guy knows what he is doing with hand loading. An indicator of a fellow you may not want to walk you through this process is one who tells you that the loading manuals always go low on powder charges due to liability issues. Such guys should be avoided, particularly when they are 'testing loads' on a range.

Have fun -- I have been handloading for close to thirty years and although it is boring as hell, it is a fine way to learn about cartridge and bullet design.

Gene

OK Doc, from what I can see you need a Dillon/RCBS/Lee/Redding. :D :munchin

Heartily agree with Gene on the advice of getting a guy that has reloaded for more than a bit and have him hand carry you through the process.

Do not allow your self to get distracted. It is tedious and can get monotonous, and the mind can wonder. Double check and triple check. Do not place a bullet on an empty case and do not double charge a case. Go slow and deliberate.

Above all, have fun!

In my experience, weighing powder charges has a lot less to do with accuracy than prepping cases properly, picking the right bullets, and loading ammo to the proper specs for your weapon.

I cut my groups in half when I started prepping cases, in half again when I selected the right bullets for the job, and in half another time when I learned that loading to the proper seating depth off the rifling is critical to accuracy and keeping peak pressure down.

Just my experience.

Good seeing you yesterday LR and Longtab.

TR

Gollu I forgot about Lee, they make great stuff, and generally people under rate it because of price. On a single stage press, I used two sets of loading trays.

1) place cases in the first tray, when you resize them they go into the the second tray, right handed cases to be resized on the tray on the right, resized cases go on the empty tray on the left.

2) now switch trays, (assuming rt handedness). Prime the cases, the cases are placed in the empty tray on the left up side down. This allows you to check the primer seating.

3) switch trays, the primed cases are on your right, upside down, flip them up and charge them, and place them on the tray to your left, right side up. This allows you to check the powder depths and insures each case gets charged.

4) switch trays, the charged trays are now on your right, place bullet in case and seat. and place the cartridge in the tray on your left.

Using two trays will help preventing mistakes in over/under charging powder and primer mistakes. Each tray will hold 50 cases.

On a Dillion, only problem I have had was in primer seating. Other problems do arise when the cycle is interupted.

I hope this comes out ok?

Hollis - Same procedure I use. Except I check all cases with a flashlight to make sure each case has a powder charge before beginning bullet seating. This is especially true if interrupted during the powder cycle.

Thanks Guys.

I will go slow and deliberate. I bought The Complete Reloading Manual for the
.270 Winchester today. This looks like a new adventure. I can see the need to be careful.

Hopefully the new glass and rings will be on top of the Sako soon.

It's nice to have a basement where I can set things up.

Please stay open to questions.

Doc

Ever locate that scope Doc?

Ran across one (Zeiss) I might be able to get at a steal.

I have a Rockchucker as well ... my main press.

BK

Thanks briansain but ChandlerSniper has already got one ordered for me. It should be in this week. Thanks for thinking about me.

Doc

Easy day. Good luck with the project.

BK

One last thing about reloading, keep meticulous notes....

Only load 20 at a time, that way if your gun doesn't like the load you will not have too much time invested. (20 should let you know how they handle.) I've not hand loaded rifle but have loaded thousands of handgun rounds....

TS

TIP:

If the air conditioning vent in your reloading room blows directly on your reloading table, be sure and turn the fan off before weighing powder charges with a powder scale.

The scale is sensitive enough for the blown air to cause an errant measurement.

fwiw

Don't forget ceiling fans too! I moved some of my equipment around and couldn't figure out why my powder charges weren't consistent. It took me 10 minutes of adjusting the powder measure and checking the scale before I figured out what was going on - duh! :o It's the obvious things you take for granted/don't even think about that'll trip you up. (And I've been doing this for 27 years. It's a good thing I'm meticulous about cross-checking.) FWIW - Peregrino

Reloading
 

I was wondering if the admins could break out the reloading part into a new thread. This is info that others may like to have but do not know it is hidden in a scope thread.

Just wondering. :)

Some tips on reloading high pressure rifle cartridges:

It's almost impossible to double-charge a rifle cartridge if you're using the correct propellent, so your greatest danger is case-head seperation. Case-head seperation at 50,000+ copper units of pressure can be akin to having a pipe-bomb explode next to your face. You might get lucky and avoid the big, fast pieces, and you might not. To avoid the situation altogether...

Start out with new brass, or brass that you KNOW to be "Once-fired". The first time you reload for a particular rifle, do a full-case resize. After you've fired these in a particular rifle, and only if you intend to fire them from the same rifle again, only resize the neck. This avoids stressing the area just in front of the case-head. ALWAYS inspect your cases for cracks or leaks around the primer pocket, and for cracks or a bright band just forward of the case-head. Depending on how hot you load, find a happy number at which to dispose of your brass. I use 3 for maximum loads, and 5 for anything less. After that, throw the brass away. It's not worth spending an hour extracting the case remnants or blowing up your rifle and your face to save a couple bucks. A case-head sep in an auto-loader is usually no big deal..( http://www.tacticalsupplies.us/media...seperation.mpg )... .it can be a little more messy with a bolt-gun.

I got my reloading kit today. It's an RCBS Kit. I've got two friends that said they would walk me through the process. Both have all fingers attached.

Thanks for all of the golden pearls of guidance.

Doc

Well let me open this one up again.
 

I do a bunch of loading..I thought. I like loading the personal one a a time and get a lot of relaxation from it. I use mostly Lee products, with different brands mof ancillary equipment. I was working some ambitious rounds. One is a 240gr 30-06 to go 1600 meters transsonic. to make this a short story I did finaly get the velociety to reach that level but the rounds grouped poorly. I returned the the best grouping (.37moa) @ 100. and transsonic just beyond 1300 meters. It also has much reduced recoil for a 30-06. I do not know why this round is soooo good.
I am now looking for some reload suggestions for IMR 4831 powder with this same weight bullet. It may end up a failure but I wanted to try. I doubt I'll do any better with the 30-06 than my1300 meter recipe.
I do load 200gr in my 8mm Mauser (Shilen barrel, Timney trigger, reworked bolt,etc. and 175s in 308. All are Sierra HPBTs.
My primary powder for these rounds is IMR 4064 and am very satisfied with it.
I had read on the IMR 4831 as being a good heavy bullet powder, but could not find any heavey 30-06 recipes. any help would be welcome. Blitzzz

One of the benefits of a single stage press is the inspection process is easier.

I used two loading trays. I would fill on tray with case and set it to the right side of the press and the empty tray to the left side of the press.

After sizing and priming, I would place the case in the left tray upside down. Upon completion I would take the left tray and inspect the primers setting depth.

Next, I would place the tray with upside down cases in it, to the right of the powder flask and the empty one to the left.

upon charging the case it would go into the empty tray (obviously right side up). Using one tray can cause over charging or cases being missed.

When that process is finished, I would take the tray and inspect the powder levels in all the cases.


Final (if seating and crimping is done at the same time)

Tray with cases to the right of the press, I would seat bullet and or crimp and place it into the left tray.


Starting with the tray on the right or left does not effect this method, where you start is personal preference.


Side note, 4064 has always been a favorite powder of mine.

New powders...?
 

Alliant has a new form of powders. They are called the "power Pro". they are:
300-MP (Smokeless Spherical Magnum Pistol Powder)
2000-MP (Smokeless Spherical Medium Rifle powder)
4000_MP (Smokeless Spherical Medium Rifle powder)
varmint (Smokeless special Light Rifle powder)
3000-LR (Smokeless special Large Rifle powder)
Just curious, has anyone had the chance to use any yet
They advertise "boost velocities,while permiting more efficient metering and loading ans with greater consistancy. Dave

I should be getting the rest of my reloading stuff in the next month or so. I've never reloaded before, always bought ammo from the store when it was cheaper. I already have 1lb of Alliant Unique powder, and 2000 Winchester large pistol primers. What I have left to purchase is a lee hand press, carbide dies, improved dipper kit, lee auto primer with shell holders, and some cast lead bullets. Found some good reloading manuals already. I don't do IDPA or anything like that, so I figure the hand press will suit me fine.

Lee Hand press..?
 

I use Unique for all my pistol and shotgun loading and am very pleased with as a one for all powder. I'm close to settling for a one powder for my rifle cartridges it's pretty much IMR 4064 but I am looking at the new Alliant pro powders. As to the lee Hand loader it's a nice piece but very slow way to go. You might think of a lee turrent. They are inexpensive and much faster the the hand loader. But it's all up to the time you with to spend loading. I like my loading time, it's relaxing. If i may ask what are you loading with cast bullets. revolver fine, semi not so fine.
You may want to get some Lee ALOX to coat the lead bullets. decreases lead clean up.

I'll try your suggestion of IMR 4064 once I start reloading 5.56. I just sold my heavy barrel bolt action so no .308 until finances clear up. Times have been tight.

I figured I'd get the hand loader for the price and size. Midwayusa.com charges 36.99 for the kit, which isn't so bad and I could probably fit it all in a .50 cal ammo can. I'll take a look at the lee turrets too. I'll be reloading .45 ACP and no more than 500 rds a month, so I could split it up on the weekends and relax. I definitely want to take my time and learn too, don't want anything bad happening.

The bullets I plan on using came from advice from an AD Marine that shoots IDPA pretty frequently when he's in the states. The price seems decent, and they are apparently coated with lube already. He shoots the 200grn SWC and doesn't have any problems in his Les Baer TRS 1911 (I have the same pistol). You can look at them here: http://www.precisionbullets.com/ . Is there anything I should be worried about regarding these in my 1911?

And thank you for your advice. Definitely helping me out!

Check other powders...
 

IMR 4064 is a great powder for heaver calibers but not so for the 5.56. 5.56 may require a faster powder.IMR 3031 or RL 15 . Slow loading is a pleasure if you don't need a lot of ammo quickly. Loading can become an art form.. Enjoy it. Dave