Need advice on a new scope...
 

I'm looking for a new scope for a Sako .270 Win I have. I deer hunt and target shoot with it. Looking at the Zeiss product line in particular. I am open to suggestions from the peanut gallery.

I want quality but I don't have bottomless pockets, ie. I want to keep it real. The $ 1,000.00 price range is where I'm at.

Any PM's, suggestions, links, etc. are welcome from those in the know.

Thanks in advance.

Doc

Look to the Euro line of Ziess instead fo the US line. It is far more complete and includes Scopes by Hendsolt. Dam fine scopes and some you can have at your price level. Not about to say which would be best for you as I am not sure what type of hunting, time of day, target shooting habits, etc.

Besides what I love you may hate. :D

Add to the fact that I have a basic yellow streak that prevents me from advising medical personnel. :munchin

LR,

I've started going through the lineup they have on their web site. I will be shooting paper targets during the day and deer during periods of low light (early morning/late evening) so I'm thinking of something along the lines of a 4X12x44 or 50.

Does any particular model that you can reccommend come to mind?

Thanks,

Doc

Disregard.

I'll step up with a small opinion here and say that for most common purposes, the Leupolds do everything that I need.

For hunting and shooting out to moderate range, they are a good value.

LR loves the Euro glass, Zeiss, Schmidt and Bender, probably owns a Swarovski as well, he must get a commission from them....:D

TR

In addition to the well established manufacturers mentioned, when and if looking for a quality optic with the price range at 1000 $ and under, I would hint to take a look at the Meopta scopes. Based on what I have seen over here, they have a pretty good price vs. quality ratio.

TR - That was cold! I do not own a Swarovski. S&B but not a Swarovski. Besides Doc asked about Zeiss and I wanted to let him know that there are other Zeiss out there in the Euro market that are not on the US Zeiss site. I own Leupolds and have pointed alot of guys that way as well. However, is you were going to get a free scope and the choice was a Leupold (any model) or a S&B (any model), what do you think you are going to grab? Be honest now! :munchin :D

Doc, I put a new Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50 on a new Remington Sendero this year. I have been a Leupold fan until I purchased this peice of glass. I really like the quality of the optics and it meets my need for the Sendero. It is comparable in price with the Vari-X III line of Leupolds.

Thanks gents.

I think I'm going to see what kind of deal I can get on a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50 for the Sako.

I'm also going to look at a new set of rings, perhaps the Sako Optilocks I saw on their web site. I was told years after I bought my Sako in West Germany that I should of had the rings included with the weapon when I bought it. Thanks AAFES. :mad:

I'm probably going to start hand-loading my .270's in the near future. If nobody minds, I start a new thread on that endeavor when I get there.

I'll probably put Leupolds on my other 270's. One is a Remington and the other a Browning. I'll have to space out these purchases so as not to arouse the watchful eye of the warden. :D

Thanks a bunch for the input. It's good to be able to listen to different points of view from guys that know.

Doc

Doc,

Did you ever send me the info we spoke about on the reticle? I never got the email.

Scotty

hmmm...what kind of press are you getting...?

I'm really beginning to dig the US Optics scopes. I saw a couple at the SOTIC Competition this week beig used by a 3rd Gp team. There's had the Horus reticle which seem a little "busy" for me, but I think with a mildot reticle it would be "the heat". I was suprised to see how much my M24's Leupold M3LR zero moved when I was in SOTIC. It bumped the reticle 5 right and 7 up if I remember crrectly. A buddy of mine brought an M14 w/ a Sage stock w/ a US Optics scope to Iraq this last trip. He said the gun builder put the US Optics scope on the gun after he smacked it hard up against a pole and said "let goto the range". Apparently he sighted in the gun prior and it still maintained its zero. I've always been a Leupold Vari-X family fan, but I think the next scope I'll jockey for will be the US Optics. Longrange1947 [Mr. B]... have you guys looked at US Optics scopes yet? I keep forgetting to ask ya'll.

Sorry for the delay Scotty. PM sent to you.

Thanks,

Doc

I have never hand-loaded before and open to suggestions in all aspects of this endeavor.

Thanks,

Doc

Long Tab - Take care with the US Optics scopes. We had two of them for evaluation and neither was spec'ed. The mil dot pattern on one was way off and the other had repeatablility errors. For the price I would do S&B or Zeiss. I am not a fan of US Optics. The leupold with Gen II reticle by Premeir is a fine scope as well and I would look at that before the US Optics.

Also as you noted, the Horus Reticle is very busy and hte observation scope is te same. They are supposed to be use dtogether, but you have trouble seeing trace with the pattern in the scope. Not being able to see trace is a "bad thing" when trying to correct for miss.

depends...if all i were going to load was ammunition for a bolt-action rifle, where accuracy was Job #1, i would get an RCBS Rock Chucker or something like that...you load one round at a time, one component at a time...it is slow, but you are handcrafting each round...if you plan on doing a good deal of shooting in the semi-automatic mode, with either rifle or pistol, i'd recommend a Dillon progressive press...i have an RL 500 from around 1987 that i need to send back for reconditioning that works well...you can reload individual rounds in the same fashion as an RCBS, but you can also crank out a boxload of pistol or 5.56 rounds, as well...

my $0.02

Doc - I would look at getting one of the RCBS Rock chucker kits first. A lot of guys have started hand loading and have found it to be too tedious for their tastes. They soon lose interest and are out a bunch of money if they go high end right off the bat. The nice thing about the rock chucker is that it is versatile and can become your back up your progressive breaks down or needs to go in for anything. It also gets you started and allows you to have the basics that will be needed regardless of the press you wind up using. If you are only going to load for accuracy then that is all you need.

Be careful though, this can become a very addictive hobby with thousands of dollars spent for that last little .001 moa of accuracy. :D

Concur with the Rockchucker.

I started loading for IPSC with one, eventually retiring it for match loading only, using a Dillon 550 for mass production.

If I were only going to do match or hunting loads, I would still get the Rockchucker. If I were running 1000 rounds at the time, I would go with the 550 or 650 from Dillon.

HTH.

TR

Doc - LR1947 is right on the money. If you're going to reload go to Midway or one of the other discounters and buy the RCBS Master Kit. It'll get you started for a reasonable price and everything needed (for entry level reloading) is conveniently bundled. It'll get you started and let you learn. If it works out and you realize enough benefits to get hooked on it then you can start doing the process analysis and throwing money at the problem. Every little incremental improvement after that will cost more - sometimes lots more, either time or money and they're both valuable. FWIW - I've still got (and use) the same Rockchucker I bought in 1981. My Dillon is 14 y/o and going strong. And I'm still spending money to "improve" the process. It's a never ending battle. HTH - Peregrino

P.S. - You will need that quality scope (and excellent record keeping) to realize the full potential of your reloading efforts.

Edited to add: I followed a similar route to TR's though I've actually gone to loading even match rifle ammo on the Dillon. The only rounds I "tweak" are the ones I use at 600m for competition. (I'm not a benchrest shooter - the Dillon gives me one round of moa(-) ammo every time I pull the handle which is all I need at the shorter ranges.)

Doc,

I think I have an old rock crusher in a box downstairs.. I`ll look and see whats there. I`ll let ya know what I find.

Also known as thumb crusher when not paying attention. :eek:

I would like to add my thoughts. Some thoughts would be depending on what you want to load for and how many rounds you plane to load for would help in press choice. The Reaper brought mentioned that. I have a Orange crusher (Lyman, had rock crushers) and two 550B's.

Obviously for massive reloading, Dillion, IMHO, is the only way to go. If your doing small loads amounts, say 50 for pistol, RCBS basic kit. Also for target rifle, Neck sizing is all that is needed if the brass will be used in the same rifle, full length sizing will over stress the brass faster. Again the RCBS is a good way to go. I use a RCBS primer seater for precision loads, slower but a better feel.

Problem with Dillion, it is hard to go back to a single stage press after using one. It is a very versatile press though, more expensive. It does a decent job even for more accurate loads too.

But Boys being Boys given time, if you get into reloading, there will come a time where you will need more space for reloading equipment and shortage of equipment won't be a issue. I load for 36 different cartridges, 5 shotgun gauges, and have to form a few cases that are no longer available. I mentioned to a friend, Reloading is to shooting as foreplay is to sex. I have been reloading for over 30 years, and I still have could add to my reloading equipment. Neat stuff out there.

I was raised as a kid with an RCBS Rockchucker on the work bench so its pretty much all I know. But Dillon has them beats hand down with their calendars and posters! :D
Attachment 5140

i agee with TR regarding match loads...while i got decent results with the Dillon, i got much better results loading one round at a time, using a powder trickler to get my powder weights rights...i'd say the Dillon was within 1-5% in terms of powder weight, while i could get right to the gnat's back using a powder scale...once again, my $0.02...

Funny that the guy that takes these pictures for Dillion is supposed to be a "former" 5th Gp SF soldier. Everytime I've gone to Dillion (even with another former 5th Gp Vietnam Vet) this guy always seems to be "gone".

Everytime time I've gone, I've asked to meet him, everytime time I was told "he's here, let me go get him" and when I tell them I'm also a former 5th Gp Soldier he is always "out to lunch".

Funny....

Anyone know if he's really a 5th Gp Vietnam vet?

Sorry Doc for the Hi-jack....

TS

Thanks for the replies. I'll start out as suggested and see how it goes. I don't shoot the .270 a lot. Maybe 20-40 rounds a month at the nearby range. I have always wanted to reload, so now is as good a time as any to start.

Scotty,

Go ahead with the optics plan if you will. I will wait and see what you come up with on the re-loader too. Thanks a bunch for your help.

Doc

No problem TS.

Doc

Dang, I wish I had weapons instructors and co-students like those in the posters.....

I use a Lyman electronic trickle scale for my "precision" loads. They are 338 Win Mag, and 300 Ultra Mag. If I had it to do again, I am not sure I would have not gone to the RCBS or PACT, scale/measure combo if I had to buy one again.

Doc:

I will head in a different direction from conventional wisdom.

Redding Presses and Redding Competition Rifle Dies.

You want an inexpensive kit to start with? Believe it or not -- get a Lee kit that has its Classic Cast press. Cost will be under $150.00 for the kit and you will never get rid of the press or powder measure. The rest of the stuff will eventually break and Lee dies aren't real good. However, it is sufficient for producing good ammo and is cheap enough for you to determine if you want to continue in hand loading.

I use a number of presses and reloading items. I don't care who makes them -- only that they give me the results I want. Redding gives the results.

Sure, I have a Rock Chucker. Have owned it for twenty five years. It has one purpose in my loading area. I have a collet bullet puller on it and use it to pull bullets. I do use one piece of RCBS gear for loading. I bought a bench primer seater at a gun show for ten dollars and it is very handy when seating primers.

Oh yes, what ever you get -- get someone who has loaded many thousands of rounds over the years to take you step by step through your process. Ensure he has all ten fingers and both eyes are original. That is an indicator that the guy knows what he is doing with hand loading. An indicator of a fellow you may not want to walk you through this process is one who tells you that the loading manuals always go low on powder charges due to liability issues. Such guys should be avoided, particularly when they are 'testing loads' on a range.

Have fun -- I have been handloading for close to thirty years and although it is boring as hell, it is a fine way to learn about cartridge and bullet design.

Gene

OK Doc, from what I can see you need a Dillon/RCBS/Lee/Redding. :D :munchin

Heartily agree with Gene on the advice of getting a guy that has reloaded for more than a bit and have him hand carry you through the process.

Do not allow your self to get distracted. It is tedious and can get monotonous, and the mind can wonder. Double check and triple check. Do not place a bullet on an empty case and do not double charge a case. Go slow and deliberate.

Above all, have fun!

In my experience, weighing powder charges has a lot less to do with accuracy than prepping cases properly, picking the right bullets, and loading ammo to the proper specs for your weapon.

I cut my groups in half when I started prepping cases, in half again when I selected the right bullets for the job, and in half another time when I learned that loading to the proper seating depth off the rifling is critical to accuracy and keeping peak pressure down.

Just my experience.

Good seeing you yesterday LR and Longtab.

TR

Gollu I forgot about Lee, they make great stuff, and generally people under rate it because of price. On a single stage press, I used two sets of loading trays.

1) place cases in the first tray, when you resize them they go into the the second tray, right handed cases to be resized on the tray on the right, resized cases go on the empty tray on the left.

2) now switch trays, (assuming rt handedness). Prime the cases, the cases are placed in the empty tray on the left up side down. This allows you to check the primer seating.

3) switch trays, the primed cases are on your right, upside down, flip them up and charge them, and place them on the tray to your left, right side up. This allows you to check the powder depths and insures each case gets charged.

4) switch trays, the charged trays are now on your right, place bullet in case and seat. and place the cartridge in the tray on your left.

Using two trays will help preventing mistakes in over/under charging powder and primer mistakes. Each tray will hold 50 cases.

On a Dillion, only problem I have had was in primer seating. Other problems do arise when the cycle is interupted.

I hope this comes out ok?

Hollis - Same procedure I use. Except I check all cases with a flashlight to make sure each case has a powder charge before beginning bullet seating. This is especially true if interrupted during the powder cycle.

Thanks Guys.

I will go slow and deliberate. I bought The Complete Reloading Manual for the
.270 Winchester today. This looks like a new adventure. I can see the need to be careful.

Hopefully the new glass and rings will be on top of the Sako soon.

It's nice to have a basement where I can set things up.

Please stay open to questions.

Doc

Ever locate that scope Doc?

Ran across one (Zeiss) I might be able to get at a steal.

I have a Rockchucker as well ... my main press.

BK

Thanks briansain but ChandlerSniper has already got one ordered for me. It should be in this week. Thanks for thinking about me.

Doc

Easy day. Good luck with the project.

BK

One last thing about reloading, keep meticulous notes....

Only load 20 at a time, that way if your gun doesn't like the load you will not have too much time invested. (20 should let you know how they handle.) I've not hand loaded rifle but have loaded thousands of handgun rounds....

TS

TIP:

If the air conditioning vent in your reloading room blows directly on your reloading table, be sure and turn the fan off before weighing powder charges with a powder scale.

The scale is sensitive enough for the blown air to cause an errant measurement.

fwiw