Pics from Russian School Incident
 

Excellent Peters article about it:

TR

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/op...ists/28066.htm

I really like Peters and agree completely with what he wrote. However, I'm not sure Europe will get it. Le Figaro is reporting pretty much what happened, but then what? Just the usual condemnation.

In today's SvD (Svenska Dagbladet/Swedish Times) it is stated in clear text that "[...] this can only happen in Russia". SvD is the only right wing mainstream news paper here, but is usually objective.

The US response and covering of the event was noted between the above ones.

On the page to the right the headline says "Putin feeds terrorism", with an article that goes on to explain 'why they're in this situation', and draws parallells to George W. Bush:
"The Russian president has, the same way as George W. Bush after September the 11th, had an attitude of "If you're not with me, you're against me"." (my emphasis)

Even the opinions of the Swedish Defense Institute goes on to explain the problems under these three headers:

1. Over reliance on military solutions.
2. No real negotiations.
3. Lack of respect for human lives.

While I know that Russia is not a saint, no criticism of the terrorists cause was printed, just the acts they led to.

I'd be very suprised if this leads to any European change of stance. Europe is too occupied with its imaginary existance as the concience of the world and to try to act as an authority on all subjects.

Just my .02

The more I read Peters, the more I like him.

mp

Well, he has asked those questions which need to be addressed. Where are the Muslim "leaders" of the world? Too busy having a "peaceful" time to bother with this? Have they nothing to say? Where are you, the Islamic leaders in the United States?? Have you nothing to say? You disgust me you despicable vermin.
Thank you for saying what needs to be said Mr. Peters.

Martin:

I guess we know why it is called the Stockholm Syndrome.

TR

Well this upstanding religious leader doesn't have a problem killing kids.
I bet this guy is on Britain's watch list if not already.
The more I learn about Islam the more I see how hypocritical these fanatics are.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...5/wosse705.xml

Cleric supports targeting children
By Rajeev Syal
(Filed: 05/09/2004)


An extremist Islamic cleric based in Britain said yesterday that he would support hostage-taking at British schools if carried out by terrorists with a just cause.



Omar Bakri Mohammed, the spiritual leader of the extremist sect al-Muhajiroun, said that holding women and children hostage would be a reasonable course of action for a Muslim who has suffered under British rule.

In an interview with The Sunday Telegraph, Mr Mohammed said: "If an Iraqi Muslim carried out an attack like that in Britain, it would be justified because Britain has carried out acts of terrorism in Iraq.

"As long as the Iraqi did not deliberately kill women and children, and they were killed in the crossfire, that would be okey."

Mr Mohammed, 44, who lives in Edmonton, north London, but is originally from Syria, also claimed that the Chechen rebels were not responsible for the deaths of more than 350 people - at least half of them children - who are so far known to have died in Beslan.

"The Mujahideen [Chechen rebels] would not have wanted to kill those people, because it is strictly forbidden as a Muslim to deliberately kill women and children. It is the fault of the Russians," he said.

The father of seven came to Britain in 1985 after being deported from Saudi Arabia because of his membership of a banned group. He has since been given leave by the Home Office to remain in Britain for five years but the Government is reviewing his status.

He gave an interview yesterday to promote a "celebratory" conference in London next Saturday to commemorate the third anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

Andrew Dismore, the Labour MP for Hendon, was infuriated by Mr Mohammed's comments. "That sounds to me like incitement and I will report him to Scotland Yard," he said. "It is an insult to most moderate Muslims, who are sick of people like this claiming to represent them."

Sounds to me like this guy needs two to the head. :mad: What a twisted bastard.

I read that article this morning, with utter disgust. I’m sure we (the United States) also have islamic clerics that profess the same beliefs. (Religious tolerance is wonderful.)

TS

http://www.hkpro.com/hkembassy.htm

Two words; Princess Gate.

Doc

TS I would bet the farm on it. Sometimes racial profiling doesn't look so bad.

Excellent article.

I do it all the time.
 

Does that make me a racist?

Interesting quote...
 

I wonder how far this is supposed to be interpreted.

[EDIT: Corrected the date for the article.]

We need to go ahead and take the steps to establish that "Radical Islam" is itself a form of "Government" and therefore a True State!!! Then, go after them and take down the leadership and ALL followers !!

It is an attempt to link all Chechen rebels to the Islamist terrorists. Chechen opposition to Moscow is divided between Chechen nationalists who seek Chechnya's independence, Islamist radicals who want to ignite a holy war in all of the Caucasus and old-school bandits profiting from the chaos. Because of the experience of many Europeans under the Soviet thumb and because of the atrocious human rights record of the Russian government in the Chechen wars, the Chechen nationalists (but not the Islamists) have much support in Europe. By linking them to the terrorists, Russia wants to dry up this source of funding and sanctuary.

The specific target here is Aslan Maskhadov. A colonel in the Soviet Army, Maskhadov became Chief of Staff of the Chechen armed forces when Chechnya declared its independence under former Soviet Air Force general Dzhokhar Dudayev. Maskhadov led the successful guerrilla campaign in the First Chechen War (1994-96). Dudayev was killed in a rocket attack in April 1996, and Maskhadov was elected President in 1997 (beating, among other candidates, Shamil Basayev). The Chechen and Russian governments existed in an uneasy coexistence during that period. Maskhadov and Islamist warlords such as Basayev cooperated initially, but soon broke with each other.

In 1999, Chechen Islamists opposed to both Maskhadov's government and the Russians launched a series of attacks, including a raid into neighboring Dagestan. Then, in September 1999, a series of bombs went off in Russia, including one in an apartment complex. Putin immediately blamed the Chechens, though it is widely believed in Russia that the FSB actually set off the bombs, either as part of a CT exercise gone wrong or as a pretext to relaunch the war in Chechnya. The FSB refused to allow FBI forensics specialists to assist in the investigation.

Whatever the truth, relaunching the war is what Putin (former head of FSB) did. Avoiding the mistakes made in the first war, Russian forces overwhelmed Chechen forces and took Grozny, where they installed a pro-Russian government. The rebels fled to the hills and continued the guerrilla campaign, but have fractured even more than they had before.

An Arab, Ibn al-Khattab, was the main leader of the Islamist Chechens. He was poisoned in 2002. Shamil Basayev now has that role. Basayev led the 1995 Budyonnovsk hostage raid and the 1999 Dagestan raid. He has claimed "credit" for the 2002 Dubrovka Theatre raid led by Movsar Barayev, five suicide bombings in 2003, and many other acts. Among the dead terrorists in Beslan were several associates of Basayev.

Other Chechen "rebels" specialized more in banditry than war. Arbi Barayev, killed in 2001, was one - ransoming hostages was his specialty. Barayev did try to kill Maskhadov in 1999, though.

Notwithstanding Mr. Sadchikov, the lesson of the Taliban regime, if any, is that if you destroy your opponents, what may rise from the ashes may be even worse. Having almost completely destroyed the Chechen nationalists, the Russian government has only strengthened the Islamists. Further, the Islamists also know that when they strike, the Russians will either retaliate directly against the nationalists, further strengthening the Islamists, or randomly against all Chechens, further radicalizing them. So they have a perverse incentive to commit even more horrific acts of terrorism.

To judge by Mr. Sadchikov's remarks and other Russian government statements, it appears that Putin has chosen to continue this vicious cycle. Though, to be fair, I am not sure what choice he has. He could reach out to Maskhadov, and try to bring together his rebels and the pro-Russian government in Grozny, in order to marginalize the Islamists. But while Maskhadov is no Basayev or Bin Laden, he is not exactly innocent either (nor is Putin for that matter), and given what Russia has done to Chechnya, I doubt he would welcome the invite. And the bandit wing will continue its activities no matter what. It is inconceivable that Putin would reach out to a man he despises, and who despises him, with so little chance that anything positive will come out of it.

Actually a fairly common strategy. I don't think it will work in this case because the repression will be complete. This "provocation to repression" strategy works with a government like the US that is unwilling to go the full distance with martial law, etc.. A classic of a failure of this strategy is what happened to the Tupamaros in Uruguay. They provoked to the point of changing a democratic government for a military dictatorship and were wiped out by it.

The horror of what happened really hit home with me upon reading more about it on the plane, and thinking about the number of children who died = 156

Making it more tangible: There were 25 schoolkids in most of my classes in elementary school.

That's 6 full classrooms of kids who were murdered.


Why were so many of them unclothed?

FrontSight

The holding area, a gymnasium, was very hot. Drinking water and food was withheld, this went on for days. Many resorted drinking their own urine. Many of the wounded were shot from the rear sector, as they fled. The intent was to gain maximum casualty count.

Other childern were raped and stabbed.