Selection advice
 

Don't piss off the xrays. Cater to their 18-19 yo ego. Selection is not an immaculate process. bitter advice yes. maybe it will help someone. Do not correct them if they are whining they will take it personal. That is all.

You joined PS.com in Nov 2009
Your 1st post was Jul 2013 about your UCMJ machinations & tribulations
Now this little nugget.

You need to execute some immediate action drills.

1)post an introduction
2)find and read "The message to Garcia"
3)read the Welcome note by TS https://www.professionalsoldiers.com...read.php?t=474
4)think before you post, think of your post as a short(very short) story. If someone reads it will they understand WTH you're talking about..

:munchin

Wonder what the X-Rays thought of you?

I don't think they were huddled at your feet like a pack of puppies drooling for your sage advice.

Respect is earned and a two way street.

You get to a team you may find an X-Ray younger than you who has been on the team a while and is respected by the rest of the team.

You'll be the new guy with an attitude. Hmmm.

Hm...
I also have some selection advice:

-Don't piss off the cadre. Cater to their ego since they have already been assessed and selected and have earned the right to display whatever level of ego they choose when interacting with candidates.
-Selection is not intended to be an immaculate process - it is meant to be dirty and ambiguous. It is not designed to build your character - it is designed to reveal your character.

bitter advice ?
yes. maybe it will help someone.

Do not correct the the cadre - you aren't there to provide input, you are only there to perform a series of random physical tasks. If you attempt to "correct" the cadre, they will entertain themselves with your misery.

Last and certainly not least - be careful how much SFAS advice you take from those that have not graduated from the SFQC - choose instead to take advice on how to complete the process from people that have completed the process.

That is all.

Thought I had done all that already right before selection. Done. Don't know what my old Post has anything to do with this. There were some cool x-rays. It's a temporary program to augment recruiting though right? Sorry not biting on your baiting. Congrats on being cadre.

The X-ray program has been around since the 1960s under different names, or no names.
Are you still in the Army?
Are you trying to retry for SF?
What do you bring here besides dissent?

I don't just bait - I chum - the results when it gains the attention of some of the more crotchety members of the board is much more fun to watch.

So, since I obviously cant fool you, I'll just engage you with a bit of harmless bulletin board banter...

If you are referring to your 2013 post about the impact of a summarized AR15 in a selection packet then I would offer the following insight that is used to measure pretty much everyone that walks through a team room door...
-Who is this guy?
-Where did he come from?
-What's his story?

That is one of the reasons the site requires that you post an introduction. Most Team Guys are willing to give people a fresh start but they still want to know "who" they are dealing with. Little things count and patterns of behavior RARELY change once that pattern has been set - so we approach those same three questions in the context of Kazh's 3 posts over the last 6 years...

-Who is this guy? - He is a US Army Air Traffic Controller that has machinations of becoming a Special Forces Soldier. He attended SFAS in 2011 but was not selected.

-Where did he come from? He was on active duty from 2008-2014 and in 2013 showed an interest at attending again but was having trouble with the USAREUR Recruiter.

-What's his story? His 'story' from what we know is that he was non-selected in 2011 for reasons known only to him and the cadre that boarded his packet - he attempted to reapply in 2013 and then he went silent for almost 6 years. In June of 2019 Kazh started a new thread that was critical of the behavior and professionalism of the SFAS Cadre.


So, what does a 2013 bulletin board post have to do with this current thread?
Well - in the absence of a full picture of the operating environment, most SF guys will look for trends. They will analyze patterns of behavior and existing facts to see if a reasonable association can be made to help fill in knowledge gaps.

This is what I have came up with so far...
Two years after attending SFAS - the original poster in this thread got an AR15 for some random minor UCMJ offense - it could have resulted from telling his 1SG to eat a dick, it could have been for missing movement, it could been because he popped hot on a piss test, it could have been for showing up late to PT formation, hell, it could have been for telling his 1SG to go eat a BAG of dicks. Bottom line - it could have been for any number of random minor offenses but shortly after his brush with the UCMJ he decided to reapply for another chance at SFAS.

-There was however, a small speed bump - the USAREUR Recruiter seemed to be misinterpreting the new policy regarding UCMJ issues with SFAS applicants.
It couldn't possibly be that the underlying cause WAS IN FACT a recent Article-15; part of the problem communicated in the 2013 post was that it was someone else's fault - in this case a recruiter that didn't know his job well enough to correctly process the application in a timely manner.

Regardless - after attending SFAS- a process that is known to screen applicants for UCMJ infractions, the original poster found himself in receipt of non-judicial punishment under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. Since it was a summary AR15, the paperwork was destined to sit in his file for two years or until he left the unit.
Two years is coincidentally the same amount of time the USAREUR recruiter quoted as the "cooling off" period before processing an application process.

Now, here we are 5 years and 11 months later and we see a post from this same person offering advice to those wanting to take a swing at SFAS - his advice = (and I am paraphrasing of course) was -
"be wary of the SFAS cadre, they are unprofessional infantile egomaniacs that only select candidates based on their own sophomoric perception of what an SF guy should be"

Now - one might easily draw the assumption that 'Kazh' had attended selection a second time and that he was not selected. It seems odd that someone would get selected on their second attempt, and then post such an icy critique of the SFAS Cadre.


Incorrect.
The program has been around in one form or another at intermittent intervals for almost as long as special forces has been 'a thing' - given that the original poster was quite wrong about the roots of the X-Ray program, it is possible that since he is ill informed about the program, that he is also ill informed on the inner workings of the recruiting, assessment, and selection process.


I am sure that numerous former and current SWC Cadre members frequenting this bulletin board appreciate the sincerity of your congratulatory nod. On behalf of my brothers in arms that have worked at the various committees across the USAJFKSWCS; thank you for your kind words.

To a few of them (not me), the "Congrats on being cadre" comment following your recent scathing critique of the cadre might be mistaken as a passive-aggressive way of telling them to go fuck themselves. I hope they can see past that context and instead, move forward towards a better understanding of the situation. It is clear from your post that the current crop of instructors at SWC failed to recognize your value to our organization and instead, decided to fuck you over simply because you took the high road and spoke truth to power - even though it exposed to to the unfair treatment that you received.

Just like the USAREUR Recruiter that didn't know his job - the pattern is clear - the current crop of NCO's at SWC are bad at their jobs too.
...I'm sure when you finally arrive at your first ODA, you will most certainly be saddled with a Team Sergeant that doesn't deserve his 3rd rocker, a Team Leader that had to be carried through the SFQC by guys like Kazh, and a Company SGM that should have never even made SFC - much less been given a 'Star'

The truly gifted never seem to get a break in this mans Army.

The intent here joker, I will humor your response since you seem to be one of the most mature here.
Is to inform readers what is already well known in the combat arms community, however is not well known in other branches. Watch out for the xrays. that's it. Sure its not only xrays, anyone really.
I don't know why cadre was brought up. I don't know why old UCMJ is relevant. Big surprise everything on the internet is public.
I just had a thought if I could go back to before I went what advice would I give myself? Of course I also learned what I was made of and always put your best foot forward no matter what. Selection changed my life for the better. However there is also a component of reality. Last I checked I'm on the SFAS topic, I didn't mention SFQC or ODA's. Guess some people cant take ground truth and only want to regurgitate AR's and TCs.

kazh,
I saw that you logged in, read this thread, and logged off. The next time you log in answer these questions.

Seems you want to blame the X Rays for all your failings.

And to the "well known" in the Combat Arms Community can be traced back to those who didn't make the cut. Usually starts with "Yeah, I was there but I quit because it's was all bull shit."

You are sill continuing with the passive aggressive line.

Box provided him with a really first class ass-chewing / teachable moment / azimuth check. If he didn't read and heed that, he's probably not teachable. Just be glad he didn't slip through the cracks at Selection.

The last time I checked the Army combat arms are the infantry, cavalry, and artillery. Not air traffic controllers. I will give some of the Air Force CCT folks as combat arms as they are with SF on some very hairy objectives. You aren't/weren't.

Prove us wrong, go to a recruiter and sign-up for SFAS or stop sniveling and lose your BS attitude.

Be aware that there a quite a few "SF babies" (before the 18 MOS) here.

Still waiting for:
Are you still in the Army?
Are you trying to retry for SF?
What do you bring here besides dissent?

I never said "I" was combat arms did I? There you have it folks. That is the entitlement attitude I am talking about. X-rays are gods amongst men According to these gentlemen. Baiting (chumming) an outburst to have a reason to delete this. Personal upon person attack in order to discredit. Still just talking about selection not the Q or downrange. I finished selection boss. I did my job downrange. If I have to grovel to some 18 yo you can keep it. I already said this was not meant for "dissent" but caution.

Let me add I have zero idea where I mentioned cadre. In order for me to process an "ass chewing" it has to be relevant to the topic at hand. I don't think I'm on the cadre page I think I'm on the SFAS page.

Dude, you just don't get it.

1. Only verified SF are to give advice to people on this board in these areas.
So knock it off.

2. I highly advise that you check your self or your time here is getting short.

You have been given a lot of rope to correct your self but you do not seam to get it. You might want to sign off and come back in a few years.

Good luck being ATC.

And now we can figure why he wasn't selected. Can't follow instructions, combative to folks that could assist, and a real know-it-all shown up by "18-year-old" cherries with no military experience. No wonder he got an Art. 15.
Bye.

Some men, you just can’t reach!

So...
To demonstrate my ability to admit when I am wrong - Kazh is correct - in his original post he did not make any direct statement that the "X-rays" he was referring to were cadre.
-I misunderstood his post; I assumed he was referring to Cadre that had “came up” in the 18-Xray program.
-I apologize for the misunderstanding.
-I was wrong

Actually - I'm sad to see Kazh go so soon – it's always better to get through to someone before they dig too deep a hole. Having a disgruntled troop running around with a chip on their shoulder only hurts SF recruiting efforts. It hurts SF recruiting because people like him are the ones that go back to their units and speak ill of “xrays” – now that a few of us 'washed–up-has-beens' posted thread content that triggered his early exfil from the site, I’m sure he has also spread the word that that old SF guys are as fucked up as the new SF guys - and that type of bad press is no good for anyone.

Moving on -
“Don’t piss off your fellow candidates” is not advice – for fuck sake – if anyone REALLY needs advice like that, then they are already facing a ‘0 balls-2 strikes-2 outs-down by one-bottom of the 9th" situation. Better advice would have been - be a team player no matter how much the other candidates might piss you off.
Again, after carefully rereading all of his posts, Kazh was not being critical of the SFAS Cadre - I apologize for the misunderstanding - I was wrong…

He seemed to be blaming other students for his personal failure to get selected.

Of course, I could be wrong about that too - if so, I double apologize for not being able to figure out cryptic posts labeled as 'advice'
Now that I have made my apologies – I would like to offer some advice for anyone following this thread that is considering the pros and cons of a career in the US Army Special Forces…

Citing your fellow candidates as the obstacles to one’s own success is uncharted territory for me – so I missed the original intent of his post. Only Kazh really knows what happened during SFAS that soured his feelings for his teammates so badly, BUT if any of you REALLY REALLY believe that his advice has value and that the “xrays” are one of the obstacles that you must navigate to get selected…

PLEASE DONT GO TO SELECTION. WE DONT NEED ANY MORE OF YOU.

Kazh's comment that "Still just talking about selection not the Q or downrange" is absolutely demonstrative of missing the overall point of the hassle that us old washed up bastards have given him. There is no such thing as a discussion about SFAS that is not rooted in the health and welfare of an Operational A-Detachment engaged in combat. Even if you are having a discussion about SFAS – you are “really” discussing the care and feeding of an ODA in combat.

Throwing out the advice that you must negotiate people as an obstacle by suggesting that not pissing off other SFAS candidates that may or may not have an “18-19 year old ego” is just plain bullshit. The posted standard READILY disproves such a weakly constructed complaint…
You must meet the minimum age of 19 to initially apply but have turned 20 by the end of Infantry Training

In other words – there is no such thing as an 18-19 year old in SFAS. Reporting such a situation as “advice” is a lie. Liars are one of the groups that SFAS screens for.
In fact not so long ago the minimum age was 21 unless I am wrong again.

Lets – for argument sake – give the benefit of doubt and embrace the fact that a 20 year old 11B can in fact, have an 18-19 year old ego. It’s easy to believe that it is EQUALLY as simple to be an E4/MOS-15Q with an 18-19 year old ego. So, if you are worried about working with xrays during SFAS - stay away from SFAS. You WILL attend SFQC with the same xrays and YOU WILL serve on an ODA downrange with xrays.

The difference between my advice and the advice offered by Kazh is that I passed SFAS and SFQC on my first try - then I spent the next 26 years of my 30 years in the Army as a Special Forces Soldier. I have served in combat with “X-Rays” and have never had a reason to identify “the xrays” as an obstacle to my successful completion of any task.
Or – you could take the advice of a non-select that felt like he needed to remind me that “I finished selection boss”
Finishing SFAS is an admirable task – many show up and quit – congratulations for sticking it out.
Competing in the Olympics is also an admirable accomplishment – it is something very few human beings will EVER be able to do…
…but only the first 3 finishers get a medal - the rest are just relegated to the dustbin of history. In fact, some people refer to these world class athletes that didn’t get a medal as “losers” but I digress.

Finishing and getting selected are two different things. Please – if you want to pursue a career in Special Forces – keep that in mind. Finishing is not the goal of SFAS - getting selected is the goal. Understanding ambiguous Commanders Intent while performing a task is the difference between going on a mission and actually completing the mission. YOU own your performance and the people to your left and right depend on you – finishing 4th is something to be proud of but you still don’t get a medal. Instead of being worried about the ego’s of other candidates, I offer a few final bits of advice for aspiring SF guys...

1) I recommend that future SF troops get this "x-rays" concept out of your heads - forever. 18X is not a real MOS – it is a simply a method for tracking new recruits through the pipeline. The window for wailing in protest against the 18X program closed a long long time ago.

2) An “xray” is actually an MOS qualified Infantryman until they are awarded a permanent 18 series MOS. They are not homeless vagabonds floating in MOS purgatory.

3) A lot of them get EXTRA bullshit foisted upon them during infantry boot camp simply because they are going to SFAS after boot camp instead of staying in the infantry.

4) Learn to OWN your performance. The asymmetric battlefield is an odd place and no matter how fast you run or how heavy you lift – you will not find success if you cannot operate as part of a team.

5) Team Mates will normally forgive you when you fuck up if you are willing to “own it” – shifting blame and making excuses will only result in your ruck getting tossed into the hallway.


That is all

Box, Outstanding advice.

Without a doubt.

Well it is clear why he didn't get selected...physical ability is but one of the criteria the attitude, personality and character traits he is showing here is exactly why he cannot work in a TEAM environment.....some people have a skewed opinion of themselves and imagine this guy in another country, embassy or god forbid combat with a team when the 18X is screaming at him during a fight and he lets his "I'm better than X-rays" attitude cost others lives.....here are a few very young Special Forces men who received the CMoH

20 yrs of age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_L._Buker

21 yrs of age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_J._Kedenburg

22 yrs of age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Douglas_Yntema