Teachers with concealed weapons, not best idea
 

This is the current thought but there are some issues.

Teachers do not possess the skilz to go “offensive”. 99% of the LEO’s don’t have the skilz to go offensive.

Neither are trained “killers”. Teachers and LEO’s receive “defensive” shooting training.

Google "defensive shooting schools", then google "offensive shooting schools".

Defensive shooting schools are out there by the thousands, not one listed as “offensive” shooting school. And same with the mindset, it’s defensive.


You want to defend your children, place trained combat veterans, with combat MOS’s in your schools with a short rifle. They are trained killers.

If you want to put down an active shooter in seconds, employ an offensively trained killer, not a defensively trained teacher or LEO.

My .02 take it for what it’s worth.

Except that an armed combat veteran in the school scares the left more than an armed teacher in the school.

Better to just take away everyone's guns. That's the only acceptable answer to the left.

That’s nice.

“Civilians” are not trained to address idiots with guns and a standard need to be set. A civilian with zero skilz is not worth hiring to do the job. Trained attack dogs would be better than untrained civilians.

I’ve met NRA shooting instructors that are worthless and possess very little knowledge of weapons employment.


And, next time you nitpick one of my thread/comments you’ll be back on AR15.com.

Arming teachers and bus drivers (as done in Israel) with guns (to include AR-15s or better SBR select/fire) may not be the best or most feasible answer to combat the remote possibility of an armed attacker but removing the stigma around the discussion as they have in Texas and elsewhere may promote a safer school setting simply because of the deterrence value.

Could you imagine if even 1% of the school faculty were armed with a combination of open and/or concealed carry and slung long guns on your kids campus. For that burden they would receive an extra $150 a month and a box of ammo to practice. They would only be required to qualify on the LEOSA Federal firearms proficiency exam twice a year. With a 25, 50 and 100 yard requirement for a long gun or shotgun.

I’m not advocating for arming school teachers, only that the 2A should be upheld as importantly as the others taught in schools.

I have no problems with state RCWs or Penal Codes that prohibit minors, felons, and other from possessing items deemed hazardous to the educational environment.

It’s still illegal in most urban areas to discharge a firearm without due cause of protecting life.

Good points TS! In my mind, I was thinking a "trained" teacher would react the same way you or I or our Brothers would. Of course they would not!

Then I thought about your comment re: "offensive shooting schools".

Never heard of such a thing. So I googled it thinking I might find someplace to brush up on those perishable skills - nothing!

Silly me of course there are no offensive shooting schools. That's a military skill set. Duh! Very good point!

I may be slow, but I do catch on eventually. :D

I've no issues with armed teachers defending themselves and their classroom, just don't expect them to go "hunting"........

No, they'll not be door kickers, no they will not be qualified at CQB....otoh, what 'training' did the nut job kid have?

What is the first rule of a gunfight.

At least it is a chance.

This is not a new deal...in Israel teachers have fully auto weapons in their classrooms...for good reason.

It can be done.

I think some would 'go hunting'....'someone is killing 'my' kids'.....yes, some would.

I say make it mandatory. Then you will see the leftwing propagandist teachers leave in protest, then we can get the good ones in.

So where does Ms. Jones, 5'1", 98lb hide her "active shooter" death dealer? Do you think her .380 is good enough to go hunting with? There's a lot of issues arming teachers.

Sky Marshals to “School Marshals”
 

The time is now for “School Marshals”, but guess what, congressmen, senators, millionaires, and trust fund babies don’t spend 7-8 hours a day at a kids school, so I don’t ever see “School Marshals” happening.

What I’d do as prez is close the TSA, (And the ATF, EPA, BLM etc) tell the airlines they are back in charge of their own security and start the "School Marshal" program.

Had any of the last 10 school shootings occurred at harvard, yale or berkley you bet the feds would have placed a heavily armed FBI agent or twenty at these schools, permanently.

If it ain't happening to the "elite" no one really cares.

Heck, I'd make training mandatory just to get them to get over their irrational fear of guns.

At her female-only shooting club, my wife is in charge of the "scardies" and has yet to have one, that actually shot at the range, go away afraid. She did have one refuse to go to the range after the class, though.

Sure there are..... but issues can be overcome with thoughtful application. Not everyone in the school would carry either.....and Mrs. Jones can carry her .45 under her suit coat.

MSNBC is running a poll right now on about arming teachers. Its going against them so I don't think it'll every get released.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/poll-do-y...cealed-weapons


CD

63% says, "Yes, arming teachers would protect my child."

Just voted and looks like the left is hitting the pole hard now.

Just give them all a grenade and tell them that when the alarm sounds they are to toss it into the hallway and close the door.:lifter

Unlike elections in Illinois the poll only lets you vote once, I tried. :D

It's flipped.. 638K YES vs 912K No

BUT it is MSNBC,, PR the SJW's

I like what they did in Northern Texas, sign is posted that reads to the effect... Some of the faculty/employees on these grounds are armed and will use whatever force is required to protect our students.

I'm not a fan of forcing anyone to arm themselves against their wishes (kind of feels left leaning to me:cool:) OTOH mandatory training is a great idea, I doubt if it would change any minds, but exposure to new ideas is what education is all about so it would be hard for "educators" to argue against it.

I can't comment on some of our Southern or Western states school systems, but speaking from the standpoint of large NE metro public schools in Philly, Chicago etc. - the answer is a quick - oh, hell no!

Arming teachers in these gladiator academy's will lead only to:

1) Teachers beaten & robbed of their weapons
2) Daily gun thefts from secured school "lock box/lockers"

I currently think we need School Marshals, built on the Federal Air Marshal model.

Not only does it offer a solution that works, BUT 99% of today's teachers are a bunch of hippies bred at the Left's SJW colleges. :munchin

Who’s an expert Twitter user here? I read them but have never tweeted anything.

We need someone adept at that thing to start something like this.

#INeedAnAR15Too or #IfOnlyIHadAnAR15

IF teachers and school staff were armed and trained in the use and deployment of similar weapons used to kill their students, fewer or zero students would ever be shot and killed at school. It’s a proven philosophy adopted by every police force to arm their officers with the same or better weapons than their adversaries. The best defense against the AR-15 is another AR-15.

In Israel and other dangerous parts of the world school teachers, bus drivers, as well as trained paid professional security forces are involved in the security and safety of young students who should be focused on their education and not worried if they will be gunned down one day by a friend or former student gone mental.

Ask yourself this one question: “Why did President Barack H. Obama and many of the presidents before him send their children to a private school with United States Secret Service agents protecting them with weapons you or I or anyone else can’t have?” Yes, the Secret Service actually do have ‘Assault Weapons’ they fire automatically if needed.

The Secret Service will do everything, everything possible just like the New York Police Department and every other police officer in the world to limit collateral death in a shootout with someone who cares Little for life but, it’s still possible and very likely that innocent victims will be injured or killed in the crossfire.

Lastly everyone should know the Supreme Court ruling ‘Warren vs District of Columbia’ it states this: “[t]he duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and the individual, no specific legal duty exists”. That means the police have no legal duty to protect you!

Don’t blame Deputy Peterson or the other Broward County Sheriff Deputies for failing to act, remember, when help is needed the police are only one and half minutes away! That doesn’t mean when they get there they will risk their safety for yours. Don’t expect the police to have anymore training than the local CCW range person dedicated to practicing and mastering their skills. The police are often under trained and more dangerous than the average CCW holder.

At the end of the day, anyone from MSNBC, CNN and Jake Tapper, Sheriff Scot Israel and his Deputies, Hillary Rodham-Clinton or hundreds of hypocritical Hollywood stars will be there to protect your children. They will also not send or give up their “armed” security details to protect your children. You really are better off to have Mrs. D. Loesch or an NRA Member standing nearby (perhaps breaking another unenforceable law) than any of the people you see protesting about gun-control.

At the beginning of everyday a teacher prepares to go to school and teach young innocent children. They would and will do anything for them each and every day. When the time comes they will stand in front of those children and lay down their life. Why?

If it’s for the kids, then let’s allow the teachers and the good citizens of this country to protect themselves and everyone around them when evil comes. Not one child should lose his or her life because they went to school today. You guys are right - ENOUGH! The Second Amendment exists for one and only one reason: FREEDOM!

Funny you should mention. Out of curiosity I was looking into this last week.

Results from a 2008 Rand study "Evaluation of the New York City Police Department Firearm Training and Firearm-Discharge Review Process" it should be noted that:

Officers received semiannual firearms training consisting of 3-parts; a lecture, practice and qualification

Practice is 45 rounds
Qualification is 50 rounds.

I'll let you do the math on how many rounds they fire in a year (minimum required)

I asked an LE friend what their department's annual requirement was. It is 250 rounds per-year from their service weapon.

Also from the study it is found that during shootings 30% or fewer of rounds fired strike the intended target (suspect). Again, at the risk of being captain obvious here...that means 70% of rounds fired are "somewhere-else".

These are the people I'm supposed to sit and wait for when things go bad??

Riiigghhht....

In the San Bernardino shootout, the terrorists were hit a total of 42 times. The police fired 440 rounds.

And during the Dorner hunt, the two women delivering newspapers were shot at with 110 rounds (at reasonably close distance) with only a minor injury reported. However, several houses down range were hit as will.

“School Marshalls” - highly trained and capable professionals is the best idea I’ve heard yet.

ETA: eliminate the legal fiction of “gun free zones”

Harden school entry/exits

Improve mental health treatment and get the states to report all prohibited persons to NICS

Constitutional carry across the nation for all qualified persons

Fixed it for ya. :)

Let's not forget, many of the congressional kritters, millionaires and trust fund babies send their children to private schools protected by armed guards.
If removing guns from citizens is the right idea, lets start with all of the progressive socialists and their allies disarming all of their security staff.

You also miss the idea of a defense in depth. A security/resource officer/police officer INSIDE the building has already lost the advantage.

If we're done using kids lives as a political tool and when we decide as a nation to stop living in a fantasy world of "safe places" we will get on board with the rest of the world that CHOOSES to protect their children (NO SHIT FOR REAL) and ACCEPTS the FACT that there is evil in the world seeking to do harm.

The Israelis have accepted that they live in a high risk environment and act appropriately.

We act a lot more like the Nigerians where entire schools are abducted.

Nope, we won't fix the problem because fixing problems does not fit political agendas.

In San Berdoo, too.

Colion Noir suggests most of the same things mentioned in this thread - he makes good points - and he may just be able to reach some folks who have been brainwashed for decades to believe that gun control is the answer.

How To Stop School Shootings
Colion Noir
Published on Feb 16, 2018

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m2cXCh...ature=youtu.be

EXACTLY!! It's about time we call it like it is. Dana Loesch, took a very courageous position to step out and say it IMO.

Who's agenda is being served by not solving this problem?

Without mass school shootings, the Left loses their argument for disarming American citizens.

They do not want the argument to ever go away. Get rid of school shootings? Then it's back to the inner-cities, or something else like prohibitive tariffs on manufacturing. But they will never stop because, ultimately, they shit their pants at the thought of not being the great protector who knows best for all, including what you should think & will not tolerate lack of control over those who pull the curtain back.

As TS said, teachers likely don't have the mind- or skill-set to go "hunting." But I think that when the classroom door opens from the channelized kill-zone that's been created by architects a potential shooter should be greeted with a 2-way range.

SOLUTIONS to the PROBLEM ??????
 

Just about everyone who replied to this thread is preaching to the choir..2. Offensive Shooting School/Skills...Paul Howe teaches a course ADVANCED TAC PISTOL/RIFLE OPERATOR... which includes clearing a room in a shoot house. It is very difficult to predict anything;Especially, if it is in the Future. That being said, BEING PROFICIENT at using a weapon for offense and defense requires skill, training, and constant dedication to practice even to the mundane "Dry Firing" @ 15-20 minutes per day. You will not be as proficient as some of the QP's on this site who have fired over a 1000 rounds/week for a lot of weeks & have focused on a target with hostile incoming fire and completed the mission. These skills don't happen naturally nor do you acquire them overnight. It is a long and difficult road to achieve the success that we are desirous of....YOUR THOUGHTS on this post? tom kelly

Sir, I think you make some great points as to the journey to even get someone, especially not someone pre-disposed to think in threat terms, to have the resiliency to act at all. It's possible (not probable) that some could volunteer to conduct some type of training tailored to such an environment; or that the marshal idea previously suggested could be tried.

I believe the biggest obstacles to the above will be:

1) abandonment by powers-that-be of the false notion that "just because we wish it to be safe, it will be safe" and, associated with that,

2) telling the teachers' unions to pound sand as soon as someone describes the overt presence of someone with a firearm in a safe gun-free zone (oxymoron intended) as a "hostile work environment."

As tough as it might be, I don't think the toughest nut to crack is training or staffing of willing personnel, even those simply willing to defend "the Alamo" called their classroom. The mental shift has to take place first. May not be cool, but it's an info opns challenge.

I agree, no civilian and most ex-military can never reach the shooting and tactical skill levels of our military special operators, regardless of branch. It appears to me that 99% of "tactical" law enforcement officers can't either.

The way I see it, the school shootings happen more frequently because the shooters know they are unlikely to encounter armed resistance. If some teachers, coaches and administrators have received on-going training including high round counts on the range, I think that the potential shooters are going to find a softer target environment. This latest FL shooter either didn't consider the on-campus armed guard a threat or knew he was more of a coward than the shooter.
Yes, not all teachers will or should go offensive on a shooter. The coach in Florida would have been much more effective with a handgun as he moved toward the shooter than to die unarmed.

Obviously, the left (and allies on right) have no interest in protecting children, preventing crime or recognizing that we have the right to self defense, regardless of whether they like it or not.

It's more mindset then shooting skills. It's that mindset that I'm going to "run" into that building, place yourself between evil and the innocent and quickly neutralize the shooters.

At all costs and there is no room for failure.

This is not a mindset of civilian LEO, city, state or federal.

You really cannot compare Special Operations and LEO's.

These sort of men are selected for their mindset, not shooting skills. The American LEO's are not.

Solutions:

Perimeter fencing, with vehicle and pedestrian access control points.

RFID Tagging of buses assigned to schools (with associated access control points) and driver credentials

"Credentials" for students and teachers (Temporary credentials issued for substitute teachers). Credentials are centrally managed where access privileges can be disabled by staff for students suspended or expelled. Students are issued ID's anyhow. Increase their efficiency and use.

Security at vehicular and pedestrian access points

CCTV monitoring for perimeter and access points.

Interior access controls

Metal detectors and screening at entrance to main buildings

Staged access with containment - Enter through exterior doors with secondary barrier doors further into the building.

Plan for limited access points during periods of student movement (Morning arrival, dismissal, class changes, lunch periods)

Interior controls

Upgrade classroom doors to serve as ballistic barriers

Install barricade devices to seal rooms

Implement procedures within schools for alerts and threats with focus on early detection.

Personnel

Exterior and interior security personnel with appropriate offensive engagement tactics

Select staff trained in defensive tactics (student body protection)

Require school districts to hire professional, certified physical security and force protection specialists.


Costs

1st cut would be to go through existing Dept of Education budgets and re purpose funds spent on non-educational social engineering.

2nd Tie school security with Homeland Security spending. It's not just about the border.

3rd Require future plans for school upgrades and new construction to include appropriate security planning

4th Encourage and provide tax credits for security companies to contribute to school upgrades and reinforcement (Much like Apple and Microsoft purchase IT systems for school in order to advertise and obtain tax breaks). This could be physical barriers or staff.

5th. Establish, in coordination with the DoD and VA a program to identify and prepare veterans to transition into school security roles. Consider incentives such as those available to State National Guardsmen for education benefits, etc

This as a start: It will not be a "forklift" approach as this will require a period of time to put in place as there are somewhere around 98,000 public schools in the U.S.

There are holes in the plan, but I spent a whole 12 minutes on it and most of that was the typing. I'm sure for a few million dollars some think tank in NOVA can come up with something.