Deportation
 

Target MS-13 and other Criminal elements
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ic...ctive-detainer

No problem with the above enforcement.

With that in mind, let’s review a less compelling situation.

A married father of two American born high school boys, 17 & 13 years of age. Father has worked his entire career for one company, on a “work permit” issue by the US. He is a trusted employee, often given responsibility for daily operations of the company and execution of all work orders.

His Sons are A+ students. Mom also works, and is involved in everyday decisions with relation to her sons, the schools district, and the local PTA.

The sons are well mannered, and hold part time jobs in addition to being involved in doing good. For example, the oldest, grew his hair out over a 3-year period, it was a thick black mane of glorious perfect DNA related to that ethnic group. He took a lot of ribbing at school, when asked why he was not cutting his hair, he stated he was growing it to donate to create wigs fir kids with cancer undergoing chemo.

When asked if he told anyone at school, he stated no.
The father was pick up by ICE three weeks-ago. He was a week late renewing his work permit. When asked why he was a week late, he was afraid to go to the center to renew for fear of being deported.

When Ice came to his house, he ran, fearing his wife would be deported also, leaving their two sons to community service programs. So like a hen with chicks he ran to divert the fox, jumping into the Delaware River @ 28 ^F, to escape.
Luckily, for all involved he was rescued and detained.

Which brings me to this question, what are we doing? This is low hanging fruit. A work permit not renewed is easy, all address info is on file, easy to find individual, but by all standards, not a criminal, anyone who has been issued a work permit has been compliant with rules and regulation for being here, and examples an individual that is working within the system to conform. Why imprison and deport them?

What’s the gain?

In the short term, the administration lives up to its campaign rhetoric, but long term the results of such action impact base level sociological allegiance. This “group” did this to my family!

Go back and read what the values of this family are. Is this not what we want? It certainly is more in-line with western values then most of the refugees that are being resettled here Carte Blanche.

We are shooting ourselves in the electoral head. If we want to control the future of our country, we need to embrace the Judea-Christian illegals that are here with open arms and find a way to put families first, before racking up deportation numbers to satisfy campaign promises.

A reminder: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ht=Deportation

Your reply is why Republicans will not hold a long term influence in America.

For the record: "two American born sons," US Citizens.

Your go "fuck them" attitude, solves nothing.

In my simple mind, the goal is the welfare of mine and your great grand children,
building the influence of the party, and hence the control or a reasonable amount of influence nationally.

The entire campaign rhetoric played to out groups competing for limited resources. Trump catered to out groups in Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa and Michigan, and he won, by using the disparity between groups to create a wedge to divide and swing the democratic vote. It worked.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37889032

But what about 2018 and beyond? Your go fuck them is like pissing in the wind. Unless its a short term bathing strategy, it builds zero foundation for future gains.
Its a heartless policy that will back fire on the republican party long term.

Penn's post actually seems devoid of emotion, as it is addressing a strategic level, long term problem. Your post reeks of feeling and emotion, even if that is not the case. I agree with Penn. 8 years of leftist vitriol awarded them with President Trump- literally their worst nightmare. It is apparent that liberals still have not learned from their mistakes. Will conservatives?

I do not believe so. The fundamentals of justice in our country are in part guided by the discretion we give to our Judiciary branch, as well as law enforcement. The Founding Fathers well understood that men are not and cannot be unthinking embodiments of iron law- if that idea were to be true, they would never have dared rebelling against the crown. Robotic, zero tolerance policies are more the purview of the far left.

Its not that simple.

1. He was one week late renewing his work permit.
2. He's had a work permit for 17 years. Always renewed.

That being true, why would he not renew, what pressures, (all inclusive) life issues, would cause someone, particularly in this political climate, with a 17 year record of renewal, risk it?

Fear,made his decision, mongering and resentfulness he felt directed towards him, and those like him. That, distrust was reflected back, by his thinking that he be arrested renewing, so in his mind not renewing was lower risk.

Not criminal activity.

With all due respect, legal definitions and culturally infused decisions are that of the court at the time those decisions were made.

It does not mean decision are applicable to all and evenly distributed.

A Justice always considers the socioeconomic and historical factors.

If you agree, please go back and read the assessment of this deportee and his family. Knowing what you know, as a judge, make a decision that satisfies all stakeholders?

Edit to add: and reason your reply.

In this instance, I doubt it has been addressed in depth with existing case law, but I suspect it will be soon. Credible Fear laws are well established for foreign nationals afraid of certain circumstances in their own nation, but not to my knowledge addressed by established workers afraid of persecution in the host nation. Personally I believe the most reasonable way of approaching it is to do what courts do daily across the nation- taking it on a case by case basis, barring any minimum mandatory punishments. If the individual has shown no issue in the past years with renewing his work permit, there should be no reason to assume nefarious purposes.

You are right, it's not that simple.

Whether the problem is the lawful and justified enforcement of the law or, the unjustified and nearly criminal rhetoric of the Left, special interest groups like RAZA, and the champions of social justice congressional and mayoral members - Democrats.

While this father knowingly jeopardized his own standing he also put his family at risk over fear. Fear being promoted as a political tool from the left.

Many don't realize this but Obama was the deporter in chief. As with all things run through his transparent administration he quietly deported hundreds of thousands of people just like this father for violating the laws and rules that allowed him to be here. We just didn't hear about it.

Personally I don't think we should be spending the money or the resources to track these violators down. Issue a federal bench warrant and if they get picked up by the police for a crime or traffic infraction - process them at a deportation facility or make them pay a steep fine and release them.

Note: the fine for being late is much less than the fine and potential probability that you will be deported if arrested for a crime and are not here with any legal protections. (Note: you either have legal protections afforded to you or you do not. There is no gray area in the law. You are or were here "legally" at the time or you were not and never were given those rights and protections because you are "illegal" your entire entry and occupation is a trespass and should be handled as a criminal trespass. Asked to leave voluntarily, told to leave - forcefully if needed, or rounded up, incarcerated during due process and removed from the land you trespassed on by any means necessary: even at financial cost to self, family, or country of origin. If at any point you (the illegal trespasser have used force or threatened another with bodily injury, physical harm, or death then by Constitutional authority and the right of self-protection any American has the legal right to shoot you where you stand without fear of legal consequences or repercussions of the law.)


Amazing that we give a driver's license back to a convicted DUI driver (one that has caused injury or death to another) or a return a confiscated firearm from police custody to a mentally unstable nut case and domestic abuser (Fort Lauderdale shooter) and yet we spend untold millions of dollars to round up and send low wage workers and otherwise known as illegal humans back across the muddy river or invisible line in the sand. The businesses, the farmers, and the human traffickers all only get a slap on the wrist when caught. It's big business and the Democrats love to support businesses that donate and lobby their causes.

We shouldn't have the need to create 'sanctuary cities' where local politicians and elected officials can flout the law and tell the local law (police) not to do their jobs when it comes to identifying subjects and suspects during an investigation. That in and of itself should be criminal and result in the immediate arrest and prosecution of any elected officials who have publicly or privately stated that they will only follow the laws they like and will work to undermine the ones they don't like.

I got another idea just because it's complicated. Federal deportation and processing centers should be relocated next to city hall with an annex attached to the city or county police/sheriff department. If governors want to take their state down the road of transparency and social justice FEMA can come set up camps on the front lawn of the state capital to house all the undocumented illegal immigrants already here. If you build it they will come!

I would speculate this is absolutely the cause for papis choice to neglect the law as a guest in our country. The media won't take responsibility for his actions, instead, they spin up a story such as the one Penn posted.

If I may offer a second version: "father of 2 boys with criminal records and known affiliation with MS-13 detained after not renewing his work permit as he has done faithfully for 17 years".

Would anyone question him being deported, and how many would not insist that his sons go with him?

It's not just the media. The last administration blatantly hid the facts and truths of what they were doing. Just like F&F, the IRS, HHS, HUD, DOJ, etc...it was just a giant shell game. The Dream Act was cover and appeasement for huge increases in deportations of mostly adult men from South/Central America and Mexico.

This past (last) year all the turmoil on the Southern border with kids and some women with kids was a ploy to overwhelm whatever CBP resources were left after years of decimation from the Obama administration and Harry Ried. It would have continued under Hillary unchecked. They have a plan and America and all those poor people from S/C America are pawns to their global conquest.

Americans aren't breeding children fast enough and 49% of them will grow up conservative Republican. Immigrants (just like inner city minorities) vote for free stuff because they will never have to pay for it - ever!

If he liked it in the US and wanted to stay you would think in 17 years he would have found time to become a citizen. His wife is mentioned but there is no comment on her status. Wonder why?

I understand your point, but on the other hand the government doesn't give me any pass if I am late on anything. On the other hand if you are considered a minority or immigrant federal, state and local bureaucracies are very understanding in enforcing the rules.

You should be institutionalized for your own well being.

Any border patrol agent will tell you how complicated the law can be however I agree with your question, something is not meeting the sniffer test with this narration. Being in a work program is not the same as citizenship. I understand work permits are for temporary time frames allowing the holder to work in this country. Quotas are to control who and why someone can immigrate into this country and become an American citizen and the there are the lotteries that circumvent quotas and allow some illegal aliens residing in our country to stay and become legal citizens.

It looks to me like liberals and their agendas have reeked havoc with the system from the one I knew of and it needs to be fixed. That's why it is so important for them to continuously try and divide the people of this country in order to impede us actually sitting down and crafting fair legislation for the citizens of this country. Saying I have become skeptical of the media is an understatement...It's apparent the border patrol has been censured, they are the ones that know so much about the dynamics going on here and I would really like to hear from them...but we don't..................

How about how many fake work permits / green cards are floating around? What are the real estimates of illegal aliens in this country, notice how the liberal disinformation always gives an 11 million figure and yet we know there have been tremendous fluctuations through out the years? Border agents I spoke with at one time gave me a different impression, one of much higher numbers and that was decades ago. The liberals see this as an important issue to sway the voting electorate in this country. Can banking laws be used to fix some of these issues? IRS enforcement of fraudulent deductions and sanctions against employers who knowingly violate the laws?

I own several vehicles. I'm required to register them every year with my state DMV. I've registered vehicles I've owned and paid the associated fees and taxes for decades, in every state in which I've lived. I'd like to think I'm a decent citizen, generally do the right thing and have raised good, responsible children. Next year, if I choose not to register the car because I don't want to sit for 3+ hours at DMV waiting to submit my paperwork and pay my fees/taxes, I would be breaking the law if I continued to drive my unregistered vehicle. If a police officer sees that I don't have the current registration sticker on my plate, he may choose to pull me over to issue me a citation. If I try to evade this traffic stop, I will very likely be arrested, charged and found guilty.

This process should surprise absolutely no one with even a passing familiarity of living within the law. How is the example of the "fearful" immigrant dad any different from the laws I must follow?

Ding, ding! We have a winner! 17 consecutive years on a work visa? AMCIT children, wife, etc. with no (apparent) attempt to seek citizenship or a green card? What are we not being told?

I have some American friends that reside in Mexico (Baja Sur) they are there to live forever. They wanted a house looking out over the Pacific; the government doesn't allow foreigners to buy and own land to do that and I'm sure some of you have heard stories of those that bought a lease only to see the government come take it all back. She went through a very long, exhausting process to become a Mexican national. You have to read, write, and speak Spanish with the fluency of a native born person. The test is very difficult to pass but she did. OTOH her husband is there on a visa that must be renewed from time to time and there are no guarantees that the Mexican government will do that. As with many expats around the world living within the rules of the host country are essential and mandatory. Back to my friends, they are still constantly afraid that one day the Mexican government will show up at their beautiful stone and timber home on a cliff overlooking the ocean and tell them to leave or tell him he's not welcome. That is a real fear. Because it could happen even if they continue to follow all the rules and laws.

Why is it that people who come here to better themselves and raise a family can't follow our rules and laws, pay taxes and participate in building a better community?

If my friends screwed up one time they'd be asked to leave and leave their house behind. If they did not they'd be arrested and sent to one of those Mexican jails you've heard of. Not one citizen of Ensanada would give a rats ass nor protest the government on their behalf. I guess one reason is the government and federal police would just as likely open fire and kill you.

Ain't America great! We not only allow protests and civil disobedience we encourage and promote it. Even if the people protesting have no legal right to do so because they too should be arrested and deported because of their status.

This is a true story, the wife, is my employee. This "Story" was presented in the hope of exploring alternatives. SF is after all in the people business. finding and making work relationships for mutual benefit.

Does the Republican party currently have the power position to resolve the immigration issue, would effecting that policy insure the Spanish vote?

What other nation on this planet denies its own laws and chooses to allow millions of people (a large percentage of which are felons) to illegally invade and occupy lands, collect large amounts of benefits, and the natives assist them in that, while LE is denied the option of incarcerating and deporting them?

Most don't even want to be Americans. They just want the benefits this nation offers.

I don't think any other nation would even contemplate this insanity.

If you want to immigrate and become an American, fine, there is a legal process, follow it and I have no objections.

TR

Okay but what's his story - the father? You ever talk with him?

FWIW I'm not against anyone that wants to come to America, to work, raise a family, better themselves or family back home. I would then and would still give my life in the hopes and dreams of others to be free. That doesn't mean I want to support them forever or allow them something for free that I have to pay for.

I don't think the Republican Party has a clue and neither do the Democrats. Like you said it's complicated. There is a legal process...it takes time, money, patience and there are still no guarantees you or a loved on will be allowed to come here on permanent or non-permanent basis. Maybe if that process was easier or if people didn't abuse it it would work better for more people. My wife immigrated here from Asia it took awhile. After my son was born she decided to become an American citizen, before that event she still had no intention of staying here so non-permanent 'Green Card" was good for her. We had to renew that at least once - we did - before it expired. Her English was and is still just okay. She still translates most technical things like a driver's handbook and she now knows more about American civics 101 than a graduating senior from high school and from the looks of it most college/university students.

We all have requirements to travel abroad. Passports, visas, entry permits and so forth. All of them expire if you don't take care of that - problems arise.

Immigration is messed up not because people illegally cross the border to come here. Immigrants will do what immigrants do...lawfully or unlawfully. The problem is compassion is poor excuse for allowing lawlessness and being taken advantage of. If we reward those here illegally every twenty years with amnesty and forgiveness in twenty years the problems will be tenfold bigger and they will have created everything they left: poverty, crime, violence, government crackdowns and a broken government that can no longer provide even basic services let alone advanced ones for any price.

Beirut, Phnom Penh and countless other developing cities were jewels of their time - Destroyed by success! What ever happened to the Aztecs, the Romans, and the native populations before immigrants arrived?

To all, I present this story to open a discussion for consideration to find a solution to the problem.

There is a ton of experienced leaders here. I am not defending the decision chain, but presented a picture of one family that examples many others, and at a heavy cost to both parties, the deportee and the Nation.

The arguments presented in reply only respond to adherence to the law, as a Nation of Laws, they must be enforced. I get that and I agree.

How then to develop a list of consideration that would satisfy adherence to the law and resolve keeping good people here, and in doing so, build inroads to groups usually outside mainstream republican reach.

The friend of my BiL, and American born citizen, has a similar story except that he was a stock broker. He broke an SEC law and just got out of prison after 20 years. His children were younger.

Both knew the law.

Pat

(BO)^^^I agree that the politics of immigration is not a Republican - Democrat problem to solve or fix. The fix is already written in ink. Both parties are guilty of looking the other way. One for votes, one for money and they are complicit in both. They both talk a lot and do secret deals behind closed doors. They make promises they know they can't keep or will be reversed someday but the immediate effect was all they needed. There are heros and villains and each will find a microphone if only until the next closed door session. And then nothing will change.

As I and also Reaper said, there is no other country with a functioning government that allows the abuses that go on here in America. The Mexican government would in a matter of seconds confiscate all assets and lock away the perpetrators at best. Shoot them for resisting at worst.

There is a really really big carrot hanging over the USofA and the stick is made from jello. When mayors, city officials, state AGs and governors chose to not follow the law and their oath of office to the citizens of the country then all is lost. They need to be held accountable even if that is in contempt and arrested. They can resign as not fulfilling their oath or be prosecuted and either found guilty or acquitted but they cannot be allowed to flout the law and undermine the Constitution. Follow the money! The subversives will be voted out of office or impeached as soon as crime rates soar and streets turn into shooting galleries over turf wars and gang violence. When the innocents begin to die it changes people's behavior.

This idea that one persons 'humanity' is more important than another persons 'humanity' is a cause for humanity to fail. At some point in leadership you can't bring the whole company down to the lowest and slowest. You have to cut them lose and they will either take a different path to find success or be destroyed. Nature is better at this without human interference. The strong will have a better chance of survival and the weak feed the lowest in the food chain so eventually even the strong will have eaten their young. One way or another the strong survive.

Immigrants who come here and follow our laws and the rules, work hard and raise honest children to go on and create productive families of their own are the strong. But there is a subset of the weak that came here following that other path...a path of crime, gangs, and disruption of the natural order of things. They feed off the strong like parasites and bring everyone down to their level. This is what really needs fixing and I believe the world is overpopulated so the disappearance and extermination of certain species and subspecies of the human race would benefit the whole in a positive way. But that's just me. I don't believe so much in rehabilitation and incarceration. Some can most cannot and sustaining them forever in a state of nonconformity is a strain on already tight resources. Same goes for anyone born here or not.

A guy on my team, US cit, with strong ties to Mexico, goes to MEX, meets a woman, and decides to get married.

No brainer, right? Let's get her to USA, get her a green card and get her on the path to US Cit.

He did it the legal way and it took nearly 8 fucking months, to get his WIFE a green card so she would be legal, while millions of illegals poured across the border.

It's okay to want to come here. It okay to bea good person, hard worker, family oriented. It's NOT okay to bypass the system and excuse that behavior, because they are "good" people. You want to be here. Wait in line. Do the paper work. Cross the border with your green card.

My wife is first gen American. Her parents immigrated from Canada....LEGALLY! They didn't like Canada. (They hate it even more nowadays!) he voluntarily joined the military and fought in Vietnam for HIS new country, went to OCS and became an officer, retired a LTC. My wife and her parents are grateful to the USA, they didn't come here to get a job so they could send money back to Canada to bring more of them here. They fled the liberal insanity there. They believed in a nation of laws!

One of those laws has to do with coming here ILLEGALLY, cutting in line. Not playing by the rules. It doesn't matter if you're nice.

Cannot agree more.....If you actually want to immigrate to the US, then you should abide by the law and do it legally. And why would someone keep renewing a green card for 17 years and is unwilling to become a citizen? Either you have something to hide (and do not think that you will be caught) or you may just want to reap the benefits without contributing your fair share. The Immigration problem has no easy fix. Both sides of the aisle in Washington would rather bite and scratch each others eyes out then work together to offer any acceptable resolution. The Left would rather let illegals run a muck without retribution, and the Right just wants to piss off the Democrats. Laws are laws, and we have them in place for a reason.

You cannot just bypass a law and let everyone come into this country. After all, it effects us all as citizens. The burden is on our backs because we have to support people who are here illegally, and it is not fair to those who come here and follow the rules to obtain citizenship the right way. Why is it so hard for Politicians to allow LE agencies to enforce the Law and do their sworn duty? It's not, it is because the Democrats, and the Media don't really give a rat's ass. Spin the tale, and the Left will continue to try to re-write the laws based on their blind objectives. And the Right will continue to have no clue ......It is rather maddening.....:D

Yep, obey the law or be deported.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...ents-show.html

I've often wondered about this myself. Every place I've ever worked, I had to fill out an I-9 before I even "clocked in" for the first day.

I was living on the coast when Katrina destroyed everything on the beach from Waveland to Pascagoula. It seemed like overnight, every where you looked, there were crews of Mexicans ripping off damaged roofs, and replacing them.

Then, suddenly, they were gone.

All those folks came from somewhere, worked for a business entity of some type, then disappeared. Where did they come from, where did they go, la la dit da dit cotton eyed joe.

I think they came up to Maryland and are now working for my friends Landscaping Company.....:p

I guarantee you that the people that hire illegals contribute some hefty sums to the RNC, the DNC and the bureaucrats of both parties.

Okay, I will bite. I think Chef Penn's response is in context, and has had no illicit angry intent. Again JMHO, but the attack and derogatory comments towards him personally seem a bit uncharacteristic of the decorum here in this thread...

Not to judge anyone personally, but where do we draw the line of attacking a person who is simply asking a question for which it seems to an SF soldiers response was the aim?:confused:


Holly

Okay. Good to know your opinion on the subject. sir.:)


Holly