Magnets for retention
 

Please don't ban me for this ridicules question, there's a reason:D

Has anyone ever used Magnets to secure a tool like a breaching shotgun, firing device.....etc. to their kit.

Wow, I thought this was going to be about the "Stay SF" magnets you get for re-upping ;)

interesting concept but tying something to you (lanyard, sling) served the other purpose of keeping your weapon on you in the event of close concussion .... concussion would strip it away like your hand pulling it off.

Something I heard the other day. Just trying to find out if it's possible.

Seen the mag holders that use magnets....but I suspect you have too and that may be the basis for asking about bigger items?

All the mag one's I've seen looked/felt secure, but I still wouldn't use/trust them.

I guess a decent magnet could secure a slung shotgun in lieu of the normal shotgun retainer to secure it in a vertical position when not in use.

Not sure I'd want the additional weight a magnet strong enough would weigh.

I do use a bar magnet at my business to hold my pistol on the side of a filing cabinet. :)

Would you trust your life on a fastener that requires clean surface contact between metal and metal? Factor in weapons oil, dirt, blood, etc? It would be a hard sell from my point of view.

I've heard of people using "Earth Magnets" for this. http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page...arth%20magnets

It was a while ago, but I think they had it sewn into a small cordura pouch, with Molle straps on one side, and smooth cordura on the other. That way they could place it where they needed it.

I don't know if they ever had problems with it, but I have heard of it.

For the record the Earth Magnets our supposed to be ridiculously powerful. One of the guys from Mythbusters is always using them. They say with, the bigger ones (hockey puck size) you have to be extremely careful, because you can loose a finger if it gets between them when they connect.

supposedly they are strong enough that this isn't a problem.

I know it's Wikipedia but it fits with what I remember: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_magnet

The greater force exerted by rare earth magnets creates hazards that are not seen with other types of magnet. Magnets larger than a few centimeters are strong enough to cause injuries to body parts pinched between two magnets, or a magnet and a metal surface, even causing broken bones.[6] Magnets allowed to get too near each other can strike each other with enough force to chip and shatter the brittle material, and the flying chips can cause injuries. There have even been cases where young children who have swallowed several magnets have had a fold of the digestive tract pinched between the magnets, causing injury and in one case intestine perforations, sepsis and death.

I would think that a magnet strong enough to break a finger might cause concern due to effects on the internal mechanisms of the gun?

Yes, but I haven't used it personally. It was for a breaching shotgun in lieu of the standard methods. The gun is still on a pig tail to you but the rare earth magnet is sewn inside of a piece of nylon that attaches to your carrier via molle. I'll dig through my book marks as I may still have the website saved. If I find it I will post it.

The problem with rare earth magnets is they do attract small pieces of metal and shit if you do any rolling around outside or have other metal objects by them, like sitting in a bird or next to your buddy's kit or in a vehicle. My concern with the shotgun is that a serious sprint/movement might be enough to cause it to come loose then you end up getting beat to death by the gun as you're running/moving to your next position.


I've actually found that the bungee cords used to secure the tarps to those ceremony events tents with the big plastic ball on one end work well for securing shotguns and other items if you route them through the molle. It takes a bit more to re-secure it after use one handed quickly than the old J hook retainers but it's a lot cheaper and takes up less space on your kit.

The rare earth magnets are nice, and very very strong. If they are heated they lose nearly all of their strength...I think it somehow realigns the magnetic field. They have a small area that they pull things, however it is very strong in that small area.

Breaking a finger....I don't think so, it would have to be entirely too large and too powerful for you to pull it off. Worst that happened to me is getting blood blisters as a kid.

The magnets are plated in nickel and the coating can wear off when things are placed against it. It creates sharp slivers of metal, and they are incredibly difficult to remove. They are incredible brittle as well, don't let them slam into each other.

I'm exposing ignorance here, but couldn't some velcro tape be glued around the shotgun and strips of velcro tape be used to hold it in place?

Rare Earth Magnets
 

Never used them for weapons retention, but have used them in other tool applications. The source is KJ Magnetics and you can obtain sample packages. Even the tiny magnets are powerful and can draw themselves into places you don't want them to go.

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/

They have a FAQ page that answers some questions.

KJ notes standard neodymium magnets will lose strength if heated over 178°F.

I will note that you do not need to roll in the dirt to attract iron bearing soil. Take that into consideration when using for waepons.

If the magnets are mounted on the weapon itself, will it affect the reliability to chamber or cycle rounds? Definite no-go with a semi-auto shotgun, I would think. They will affect a standard compass and possibly comms in general, so you'll have to inlcude your Echo to test the use. KJ indicates their magnets are RoHS compliant, but then they also can not ship amounts over a specific power through aircraft. This has to do with airborne electronics or navigation equipment.

I have a small rare earth magnet and it's extremely powerful. To use one to hold something to your kit would be silly. It will grab onto anything it can and will collect any and all metal materials. If and when you removed your shotgun from your kit that magnet will attach itself to anything you might walk near. I's sure would not want to "be that guy" that had a rare earth magnet on when someone threw a grenade or a flashbang past me and the magnet grabbed it...... they are that powerful.

Edit to add: It's also got to make noise to remove a shotgun from the magnet, another reason I think it silly to use.

We have some of these rare earth magnet weapons retention bars in the company. Mostly used to hold on to the breachers shotgun or to keep an M-4 from swinging around during a search.

A few guys think they are awesome.
...IMHO these same guys would think anything offered in Mutli-Cam is awesome. These same folks think anything that an SMU has ever touched needs to be aquired and put to use by the ODA's

I think the magnetic weapons retention kits are useless. The attached picture shows one being used to hold a zippo lighter in place.

I say get a decent sling and use it right.
Or buy a magnet. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Keep him away from the compass man. :D

TR

The new Army......

What's a compass? :munchin

Never used but 'know a guy'
 

One of the Bravo's in my company uses one in place of a shotgun catch (attached with bungee as previously mentioned but to retain it when not in use). I havent see it used in that manner, although we found a good (read: humorous) use for it:

When conducting pistol reload drills, if he brings the pistol in nice and close before dropping the magazine (M9 metal mags) the magazine will drop and be sucked in and stick to the magnet. Voila: dual purpose shotgun catch / dump pouch. We have a promo video of these and are trying to figure out what cool paint scheme to use before selling to the Airsoft crowd...:D

So what is the reason for you question? I'm very curious. :D

A true magnet story.
 

Last year I was being shown around a new factory which made wind turbines. The rather comely young lady who was giving me the tour was walking ahead of me when we passed some huge magnets which formed part of the generators in the turbines. I felt a stirring in my pants as I followed her though the narrow passage way between these large parts awaiting assembly. Now, I am not really an ass man, so I was surprised at the movement in my crotch, until I brushed too closely near one of the magnets and I was suddenly yanked by the front of my trousers and stuck firmly to a generator housing. The 38 spl Colt Cobra that I habitually carry in my pants pocket was now firmly stuck to the magnet. My efforts to disengage must have looked obscene as the pretty young thing turned to look at what all the commotion was about. After a few seconds, I managed to slide myself along the casing until the magnetic force lessened enough to enable me to get unstuck. Now, most of the Cobra is in fact un-magnetic alloy and as far as I can tell, just the steel sleeve in the barrel is the only real large bit of magnetic material in it. Imagine if the gun had been pure steel?

Rare earth magnets will work but I have a couple of concerns. Long time exposure can and will magnetize what they are holding and why I do not use magnets to hold my tools. This could create problems in functioning later.

Second, while a rare earth magnet the size of a quarter and about .25 inches thick will withstand a mighty pull away, it has almost zero lateral force. thus the item can slide off very easily. Not a good idea in a dynamic situation.

Kieth, I counsel against. :)

I remember seeing someone with the AWS Shotgun Retainer with a magnet sewn in. I didn't use it, so I don't know how effective it was, but AWS is in Fayetteville and sell them for ~25 bucks.

http://www.awsin.com/proddetail.asp?prod=50329

Take it to a rigger, sewn in a magnet, and see how it works?

I think its a great idea to add more metal on your kit to hold something. I can't wait to see all the "light weight" Velcro replaced by heavy metal. :rolleyes:

Brilliant if you ask me.

Question
 

Would these magnets have an effect on any of the electronics you guys carry on your person?

In my youth i can remember the hell i got from my folks the first time I put a magnet up to the tv screen (during a Packers v. Vickings football game...) it was kinda funny watching my old man's face [and volume level of his rebuke] change right along with the colors of the screen.:D:eek:

I will admit that I lack the knowledge of the tech that I occationally see service members carrying on their wrists, pouches etc but what are the effects of a powerful magnet, maybe not on the circutry itself, but the digital screens you use to acccess those technologies; are they subject to malfunction when a magnet is in close proximity?

Hell yes........ not to mention they could affect optics, nav equipment, radios, cameras, computers, flash drives, etc etc etc

Oh yes, they can DEFINITELY break your finger if they are large enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-UZYyhk_w0

:eek:

I stand corrected, that is disturbing.

I have a number of rare earth magnets that I use for a number of tasks in my wood working. Some are only 1/4 inch tall and in diameter. two palced together are a pain to pull apart but will slide apart fairly easily, BUT, will snap right back together as soon as you relax. I DO NOT allow any of my electronics any where near them, and that includes my watch.

I have two of these magnets and when I made the mistake of allowing them to come together it literally took all my strength to separate them. The now sit together on the fridge will about four pieces of cardboard separating them. I've had my finger between them and they will leave a mark......

If you've never played with a rare earth magnet they are absolutely nothing like the magnets you are familiar with.


http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BX08Y0

I agree, that's why I told him to do it :p . I don't trust the magnetic mag pouches and have seen mags come out on the range. Definitely don't trust it to hold my shotgun to my kit. Not to mention, if it's strong enough to hold the gun to you while moving, wouldn't it be a huge pain in the ass to get free when you need it?

You could try the Remington SRD and see if it works with your kit setup, and no magnets or over-engineered devices to deal with.

Since there are metal particles in most dirt and sand. Seems like a lot of dirt/dust would get stuck to it. Someone at work wanted the students to use these, thats why I asked.

You would be correct Keith. :)

Like if you had to roll on the ground, near rotor wash, breaching. All kinds of crap would stick to these powerful magnets. They work in Mass effect just fine thou, computer game.

Think about how easy they are to slide apart rather than pull apart.

IMHO, if you perform any IMT with these attaching your kit, you are going to be leaving weapons and gear all over the battlefield.

TR

I recall there was an issued magnet pouch with molle attachments on the reverse. it held two zippo sized earth magnets on the inside. never seen it used for its inteded pourpose but can't forget the day I was playing with it in the team room and the things snapped together and gave me a blood blister I won't forget

can't seem to locate a photo of it, we used it to hold notes to the outside of the bravo locker

They were banned from my SFAUC class after the first live fire CQB day. Guys would go in the room and start deminishing their sector and the shotgun would come loose and swing around. We had 6 on my team that were give to us by S8, but I use them to hold screws when I'm gunsmithing in the cage, not doing CQB.

One of the same things I use them for when working with screws in my shop. :D

You can also use them to find dropped screws, if you didn't use them to retain the screws earlier.

TR

Last Man
 

Maybe that was the intended purpose... Last Man in a Stick has the magnets to police up all the gear.

SEALs could have used magnets on thier last madia blitz. :D