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NSA reportedly collecting phone records of millions, though officials had denied hold
and janet napolitano is afraid that some domestic "lone wolf" is going to go rouge and start killing people...... just can't figure how she came up with that idea......:munchin
NSA reportedly collecting phone records of millions, though officials had denied holding 'data' on Americans Published June 06, 2013 FoxNews.com Reports that the Obama administration has been collecting the phone records of millions of Verizon customers in the U.S. could contradict statements made by top officials who previously claimed the government was not holding data on Americans. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper was asked at a March hearing whether the National Security Agency collects any data on millions of Americans. "No sir ... not wittingly," Clapper responded, acknowledging there are cases "where inadvertently, perhaps" the data could be collected. NSA Director Gen. Keith Alexander also told Fox News last year that the agency does not "hold data on U.S. citizens." But the Guardian newspaper reported late Wednesday that the administration has been collecting the phone records of millions of U.S. customers of Verizon under a top secret court order. The order, a copy of which apparently was obtained by The Guardian, reportedly was granted by the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court on April 25 and is good until July 19. It requires Verizon, one of the nation's largest telecommunications companies, on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the U.S. and between the U.S. and other countries. The text of the order, as published by The Guardian, says that "the Custodian of Records shall produce to the National Security Agency (NSA) upon service of this Order, and continue production on an ongoing daily basis thereafter for the duration of this Order, unless otherwise ordered by the Court, an electronic copy of the" the records in question. Administration officials, while not directly acknowledging the order, defended their authority to collect records and stressed they're not listening in on conversations. Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...#ixzz2VSHC7oj4 |
CNN related story
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The nature of the data collection is such that there is no way it is limited to Americans who are only Verizon subscribers. It is time to clean out the lint trap & take out the trash. |
The top secret Verizon court order was leaked.
How much do you wanna bet there are court orders for ATT, T-Mobil, etc, etc that are in place just not yet leaked? |
I heard that they are "not" targeting CAIR phones users or obamaphones users.....;)
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NSA has your phone records - IRS has your financial records and soon to have your health records - eventually - you will be swabbed during the audit for your DNA.
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And those RINO guys aint helping...
“I have no problem. I am a Verizon customer. You can have my phone number, and put it in a database" If they get a hit between me and some guy from Waziristan,” officials should investigate Senator Lindsey Graham |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein Sprint, too. Although, I'd wager that T-Mobile isn't doing the same thing, or at least the same extent of operations as the big two carriers, as T-Mobile is a holding of a foreign telecom. Prepaid T-Mobile is a favorite of drug dealers conducting domestic ops, though so who really knows? |
Much is being made by those defending it - including those who are supposed to be engaged in oversight on behalf of the people - in terms of rationalizing, that the content is not at risk; no one's listening to phone calls. That's beside the point in my mind and is a deflector to the argument only.
They have no business, imo, in even knowing who I talk to unless they can prove a reasonable case that I'm engaged in prohibited activity, first. FISA is a Chicken-Little rubber stamp and has been for awhile. |
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Guess Everyone is now a suspect...sounds American to me :rolleyes: |
Well, I just know that there are no court orders on Sprint phones since they don't generally get a good signal anywhere. :D
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But Bush promised us the Patriot Act and FISA warrants wouldn't occur on US soil. Seriously though, who cares? If the gov't wants to have you saying a phrase on tape they'll have you saying a word on tape. You don't need a FISA warrant for some ATF agents to led a judge admit into evidence a suspect "allegedly asking to purchase explosives overseas."
There's no "discovery" in fed courts and the Brady rule has zero teeth because of prosecutorial immunity and Mike Nifong is the best sideshow to ever happen to prosecutors. As a former prosecutor it's amazing what the judge believed then but now the same judge disbelieves because I sit on the left side of the courtroom. |
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Seems President Cleveland was of the few whom spent the time to understand this in a time when all this information was not at their finger tips. Pretty lazy of them or they have some wires crossed. Personally not willing to give up my rights because the gov needs to protect/take care of me. Seems to me the terrorist win with these types of intrusions. |
The Government has one f.cking job-to leave Citizens the f.ck alone unless absolutely necessary.
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Former NSA head defends agency reportedly spying on millions of Americans
Let me know when the shooting starts, I'd hate to miss it.....
Former NSA head defends agency reportedly spying on millions of Americans Published June 06, 2013 FoxNews.com The NSA isn’t spying on the vast majority of Americans, a former head of the spy agency told Fox News on Thursday, defending what one civil liberties group called the "broadest surveillance order to ever have been issued." A report by the Guardian revealed that under the Obama administration, the communication records of millions of U.S. citizens were being collected indiscriminately and in bulk, regardless of whether they were suspected of any wrongdoing. The report was based on a confidential order reportedly granted by the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court on April 25 that is good through July 19. But the seizure of the phone records of millions of Verizon users did not mean the agency was spying on Americans, explained former NSA deputy director Cedric Leighton. 'If the rules are followed then there should not be much a of a problem with it -- but you have to be very careful.' (Just like the IRS was with the tax records of everyday citizens.....) - Former NSA deputy director Cedric Leighton "You really don’t have time when you're an agency like the NSA to listen in to everybody’s conversations," Leighton told Fox News anchor Bill Hemmer. "You only listen in on those that you have a specific warrant for or have reason to believe they are engaged in terrorist activities." "What we are looking at here is a way to go through a whole bunch of info very, very quickly,” Leighton explained. "I am okay with the basic idea of going after those who are connected to terrorist groups, and I think most Americans are okay with that," said Leighton. "What you are looking at though is a lot of data, and it requires a lot of good control mechanisms put in place for handling that data. If those controls are followed, if the rules are followed, then there should not be much a of a problem with it -- but you have to be very careful." Cont: Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/06/...#ixzz2VTq2aZsS |
A dissenting point of view.
This NSA program has been in place for years. It consists of computers screening calls looking for trends/patterns ID'd by the NSA...jihadi sites etc. Looking where when, not content. When and if a hit comes up they still must get a court order to investigate that individual phone number. I don't see a way round this one. I know in light of the other issues...IRS, news guys targeted etc it makes everything suspect. |
Yes you do need to be very careful dipsh.t. Your boss (actually, us) should take you in an office, close the door and ask "What the f.ck are you doing?"
"You took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution, what happened to that?" You guys are really a disappointment over there. Use the law as it was intended instead of being lazy and trying to scare the weak with the terrorism line. Thought we crushed them? Or is the threat folks whom stand by the Second Amendment or think the GOV is too big. If you stop and think clearly about it you'll see you have shown to all Americans it is too big and we definitely need to protect our liberties. With that said I cannot help but laugh at you, really, for thinking we are naive and that you have our trust; because we are not and don't...You've Earned it... |
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What country am I in? |
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The former NSA Director, LTG Michael Hayden, cautioned that with this kind of capability the transition to totalitarian state is nothing more than a "flip of a switch". A very, very sobering thought. Especially in light of the current events. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin |
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Though I know they have higher standards in many respects, it's way too broad... |
Trapper, in light of recent developments...makes everything suspect. That program, if IF executed as designed is a good tool...but under the present admin who knows who gets what info.
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They are at a severe force-ratio disadvantage when it comes to actual boots. I think all of these leaks about the surveillance state are deliberate leaks. They are desperate and trying to leverage fear and the illusion of omniscience in order to maintain control. The simple facts are: they can't get us all, and they need us to produce. Government power isn't waxing, it is waning. |
Not unexpected
These revelations were not unexpected. From the beginning of the Bluffdale facility announcement it was clear that the only logical use of the place was massive data collection, analysis, and decryption activities, with every sign of a domestic component.
What was a surprise, to me, was the acknowledgement today that the communications of the JUDICIAL AND LEGESLATIVE Branches of our government had also been collected (and analyzed ???). Time for a “tin foil” hat moment, but does anyone think that Roberts vote on Obamacare will be found in Utah. Concerned, but not filling magazines yet SnT |
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Normally I am with this forum 100% on most issues. This one I am unsure of for a couple reasons.
One, agree with PRB. Two the Patriot act may have been "Bush's fault" simply because he signed it, but it's actually Biden's little wet dream. The Omnibus Counterterrorism Bill of 1995 was introduced by Biden. The Patriot acts main points come from that bill and the Clinton administration. Yet another group of real winners, I know. Either way, I do not feel Bush really put a whole lot more work into something the previous Admin already had ready to go. So can you complain about Bush in the context of the law? I do not think so. I think it would be more appropriate in the focus on reactive leadership. Bush had to make some quick moves to start hunting down these bad guys. This law was the best way to do it. It was there and available, so he signed it and moved on. Many of those our nation has hunted down was largely in part to the passing of the bill. That intel boost turned out to be exceptionally useful in quick and efficient hunting of bad guys. There IS this current connection to the current administration in that Biden was a big part of that process and that Obama has vastly expanded it since. I however, do not believe that the metadata is being used for anything it should not be. I as well understand everyone is pissed about a lot of current events. I would also caution that I am sure many members of this forum are aware, just because something is classified does not mean it is really all that interesting. As well, just because something is classified does not really mean it is a direct conspiracy against you personally. This kind of behavior of collection has been going on since the inception of electronic surveillance. There is absolutely no reason anyone should be surprised. Think of it this way, if the metadata system of intel was suddenly completely put to an end and an analyst could no longer connect A-B, there would no longer be any hunting of bad guys. It would put a real end to a lot of CT missions very quickly. I feel like the articles were a troll in the news just trying to be sensational again to get everyone all upset. Or perhaps a politically motivated distraction from other issues... Another final thought, it is as if a soldier were to be asked to turn their guns on other US citizens is it not? Think that the majority of analysts that work in the positions in question are typically military. To make what is implied by many of you possible, you would have to have some seriously bad apples. I really do not believe it has gotten that bad yet that I can not trust my brothers in uniform to do the right thing....Just say'in. Biden and the widely unknown history of the Patriot Act: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10...dStoriesArea.0 http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...4:SN00390:@@@K |
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If it isn't the Chinese it's our own government. :mad:
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I'm getting a good feeling about my Guillotine, LLC stock holdings...
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Useful Tool
Looking forward to them running that Useful Tool (Expert System) on our Health Records, maybe do some cross referencing on our Phone and Power usage just for some extra detail, then add the below crap:
<snip> The National Security Agency and the FBI are tapping directly into the central servers of nine leading U.S. Internet companies, extracting audio and video chats, photographs, e-mails, documents, and connection logs that enable analysts to track foreign targets, according to a top-secret document obtained by The Washington Post http://m.washingtonpost.com/investig...y.html?hpid=z1 Should be interesting...Thanks for the Stock tip mr2 |
So
So it appears they are vacuuming in credit card activity also.
The problem is not that civilian sales agencies do it. The problem is that the government is doing it. So now somebody in the government can push a few buttons and see that Joe spends 20% of his credit card purchases on gun, survival and outdoor stuff - and look here - another 5% was to the NRA-ILA, GOA and other similar groups. Maybe we should slide this over to DHS and the FBI. Maybe we can find an outstanding parking ticket so we can do a 0200 no-knock search of his place and get another terrorist off the street. |
Author of Patriot Act says NSA phone records collection 'never the intent' of law
Author of Patriot Act says NSA phone records collection 'never the intent' of law
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...#ixzz2VWtCYixY "The author of the Patriot Act said Thursday that a secret program under which the Obama administration was collecting phone records from millions of Americans is "excessive" and beyond the scope of the law. Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., who wrote the 2001 law, was among a host of lawmakers on both sides of the aisle who raised alarm over the practice. ........" The Patriot Act expires in 2015 - if not renewed. Does anyone really think if it's not they'll tear down the Bluffdale facility if the Patriot Act expires? |
Just throwing it out there. For you Android users, RedPhone and TextSecure are your friends. End-to-end encryption, as long as the person you are talking to uses them as well. If you're an iPhone type, look into silent circle.
Also, bear in mind that with TextSecure, if your phone is seized, the strength of your password is all you have. Something like OhGodOhGodItIs1984AndOrwellWasRight#!)#!)#!)#!) should do the trick. Also, if you don't have whole-disk encryption running on your phone, you are just asking for trouble. |
Official response from James Clapper, DNI.
June 6, 2013 DNI Statement on Recent Unauthorized Disclosures of Classified Information The highest priority of the Intelligence Community is to work within the constraints of law to collect, analyze and understand information related to potential threats to our national security. The unauthorized disclosure of a top secret U.S. court document threatens potentially long-lasting and irreversible harm to our ability to identify and respond to the many threats facing our nation. The article omits key information regarding how a classified intelligence collection program is used to prevent terrorist attacks and the numerous safeguards that protect privacy and civil liberties. I believe it is important for the American people to understand the limits of this targeted counterterrorism program and the principles that govern its use. In order to provide a more thorough understanding of the program, I have directed that certain information related to the “business records” provision of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act be declassified and immediately released to the public. The following important facts explain the purpose and limitations of the program: The judicial order that was disclosed in the press is used to support a sensitive intelligence collection operation, on which members of Congress have been fully and repeatedly briefed. The classified program has been authorized by all three branches of the Government. Although this program has been properly classified, the leak of one order, without any context, has created a misleading impression of how it operates. Accordingly, we have determined to declassify certain limited information about this program. The program does not allow the Government to listen in on anyone’s phone calls. The information acquired does not include the content of any communications or the identity of any subscriber. The only type of information acquired under the Court’s order is telephony metadata, such as telephone numbers dialed and length of calls. The collection is broad in scope because more narrow collection would limit our ability to screen for and identify terrorism-related communications. Acquiring this information allows us to make connections related to terrorist activities over time. The FISA Court specifically approved this method of collection as lawful, subject to stringent restrictions. The information acquired has been part of an overall strategy to protect the nation from terrorist threats to the United States, as it may assist counterterrorism personnel to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities. There is a robust legal regime in place governing all activities conducted pursuant to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which ensures that those activities comply with the Constitution and laws and appropriately protect privacy and civil liberties. The program at issue here is conducted under authority granted by Congress and is authorized by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC). By statute, the Court is empowered to determine the legality of the program. By order of the FISC, the Government is prohibited from indiscriminately sifting through the telephony metadata acquired under the program. All information that is acquired under this program is subject to strict, court-imposed restrictions on review and handling. The court only allows the data to be queried when there is a reasonable suspicion, based on specific facts, that the particular basis for the query is associated with a foreign terrorist organization. Only specially cleared counterterrorism personnel specifically trained in the Court-approved procedures may even access the records. All information that is acquired under this order is subject to strict restrictions on handling and is overseen by the Department of Justice and the FISA Court. Only a very small fraction of the records are ever reviewed because the vast majority of the data is not responsive to any terrorism-related query. The Court reviews the program approximately every 90 days. DOJ conducts rigorous oversight of the handling of the data received to ensure the applicable restrictions are followed. In addition, DOJ and ODNI regularly review the program implementation to ensure it continues to comply with the law. The Patriot Act was signed into law in October 2001 and included authority to compel production of business records and other tangible things relevant to an authorized national security investigation with the approval of the FISC. This provision has subsequently been reauthorized over the course of two Administrations – in 2006 and in 2011. It has been an important investigative tool that has been used over the course of two Administrations, with the authorization and oversight of the FISC and the Congress. Discussing programs like this publicly will have an impact on the behavior of our adversaries and make it more difficult for us to understand their intentions. Surveillance programs like this one are consistently subject to safeguards that are designed to strike the appropriate balance between national security interests and civil liberties and privacy concerns. I believe it is important to address the misleading impression left by the article and to reassure the American people that the Intelligence Community is committed to respecting the civil liberties and privacy of all American citizens. James R. Clapper, Director of National Intelligence http://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroo...ed-information |
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As long as you're not like this guy... ;) |
Trust us
Trust us - We're from the IRS and the NSA, we're here to help and protect you.
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"Verizon Wireless, America's largest (most listened to and watched) 4G LTE network. If you don't believe us, ask the NSA!"
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For those whom wonder why they see those xxxxredactedxxxxx...you now know where it'll end up. Utah and another new 600k sqft data center under construction in Fort Meade.
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