SFAS Advice
 

Gents:

This thread is provided as a service for SFAS attendees to provide their advice (without G2ing SFAS) to those who have not attended.

If you are not an SFAS attendee, do not post here or ask questions.

We are looking for generic advice from those who were selected. Those who have attended without being selected and who think they have an experience to add may also do so, subject to review.

It is hoped that this will allow for SF students to keep the forum relevant, assist prospective attendees, and pay a little back.

If you candidates think you have something of value, please put it up and we will tune this on the fly.

Thanks and congrats!

TR

I would suggest that potential posters that fall in this category contact a QP on this board to review the content of their desired post . This may keep your ruck out of the hall.

Advice
 

Gentelmen,
I'm sure I might touch on things that have been mentioned somewhere on this site-but here are some collective and hopefully helpful thoughts:

• One of the first things that come to mind are socks. Bring as many of them as you can; I believe I brought over 10 pairs. Just like many threads here say- keeping your feet in good shape will make you or break you.
  
  
• This goes without saying, but don't bring boots that you just purchased from the PX. You might laugh, but it happend. Bring in boots that you could be comfortable in for days.
  
  
• For the winter classes, maintaining body heat is very important. Stay dry when possible and always be prepared to snivel/de-snivel.
  
  
• Positive attitude is key, if you are a good judge of character- as the course progresses you will see who maintains a positive attitude and who doesn't. Don't be the guy who is always complaining.
  
  
• Cadre put out rules, regulations, and standards for a reason. Without being too specific, not adhering to the rules shows poorly on you, even if it seems minuscule, you think no one is watching or "everyone else is doing it". Remember if you are selected you will see some of the same people you were in SFAS with in the SFQC.
  
  
• When in charge take charge; Otherwise let the leadership do their job- but don't be afraid to provide input if needed.
  
  
• Make sure you have a firm grasp on land navigation before you come to SFAS. Bring a good map case with good markers.
  
  
• Do not come to SFAS in poor physical shape. Be prepared to run, ruck, and maybe ruck run if needed;). You WILL be a burden to your fellow peers if you are weak, guaranteed.
  
  
• Active stretch before each event(this was very important for winter class). And stretch after each event to prevent injury. Lots of good guys get injured. Always be cognizant of what your body is telling you.
  
  
• Be humble.

For me, SFAS was at the time the apex of my career. Keep the mindset that the Cadre will have to take you out in a body bag before you VW, and you should should be set.

Good luck guys,
Phantasos
Class 004-10 (Jan 2010)

Phantasos:

Good solid advice, thanks for your contribution.

If you guys do not mind, give your class number and month/year you attended so that we can figure out how current your advice is and what the season was.

Thanks and keep 'em coming.

TR

Buy and read Get Selected by MAJ Martin. The book contains excellent information to prepare you for SFAS.

Buy canteen straws. Attach them to your 2 qt canteens and they will save you a lot of time instead of taking them off your ruck to drink once your 1 qts run out. They can be had at Ranger Joes. Also buy a real Camelbak mouth piece. They do not leak and have an on/off valve.

Be prepared to wear a ruck everyday all day while at selection. Learn to be comfortable in the suck.

Do not be afraid or embarrassed to go to sick call. It is not looked down upon.

Kit bags are good to have. You'll be living out of your bag the whole time and having something with a side zipper will make life a little easier than digging through your duffle.

Eat everything you are given, absolutely everything. You will regret it if you don't.

Always, always, always do the right thing even if nobody is looking. If selected and if you graduate the Q, you will be entrusted with a huge amount of responsibility. If you can't be trusted to follow simple instructions, how can you be trusted to carry out missions. The COL who gave us our selection brief gave a great analogy. He said if we can't be trusted to be faithful to our spouses, who we made a commitment with to God, then how can he trust us in SF.

Always have a good attitude. People will notice, candidates and cadre alike.

Do not self asses. Let the cadre take care of that. Do your best and do not quit. Also, take it one event at a time. Don't think about tomorrow or next week. Focus on your current goal. 25m target.

There is an incredible wealth of information about everything on this site. I read it everyday prior to SFAS. Something I did was put together a collection of motivational quotes from this site posted by the QPs. I read it everyday and whenever I needed to refocus my thoughts. It helped out tremendously.

Class 09-10
June 2010

This is all great advice.

In addition to what is immediately listed above, I would also submit the following:

1. Nothing is forgotten. The same people you went to selection will you will be seeing throughout the course. Whatever event you didn't put all forth or corners you cut will be remembered. Conversely, if you are a great team player, got along well with you peers, carried all your weight and some, you will be remembered by that, too. Your reputation starts there.

2. Bring a fiction book to read. If not for the entertainment value, it makes excellent trading for other useful books, i.e. Ranger Handbook, Get Selected.

3. Always pull guard, every night.

4. During individual land-nav events, always have your ruck with you, i.e. don't take it off to run to your next point.

5. Your body will be hurt at some point. It may not be hurting until the last day or two, but you will be hurting then.

6. Watch the "Green Berets" with John Wayne before attending.

7. Bring New-skin. This was more valuable than gold and an amazing treatment that is often overlooked.

8. Know how to properly pack a MOLLE ruck and how to properly set it up.

9. Tie everything down securely.

10. Try out a few map cases before you go and make sure they are 100% waterproof and can easily be accessed to annotate. On that note, be wary of markers. If you use them, do not bring alcohol based markers, permanent only.

11. Ice when you can. In fact, bring a reusable ice bag. This is a great way to prevent injuries and sooth sore muscles.

12. Hydrate, even during the Winter or Spring.

13. Laugh or at least smile sometimes. You're doing what you want to do.


v13
Class 06-10
March 2010

1. DO NOT POP BLISTERS! Use the thread trick.
Assemble a needle with thread on it. Run it through the meat of the blister at a angle as to not stab your foot. You want to have the string just inside the inner circumference. Trim off the string so you have about 1 in. to 1/2 in. hanging out. Put a CLEAN sock over and elevate. By the next day all the fun stuff inside the blister that makes them enjoyable should have drained out via the thread.

2. Put a strip of 100mph tape on the hot spots you develop. Helps to relieve some of the friction going on inside your boot. You may have conditioned your feet for long walks with weight but a rain tends to erase all that hard work.

3. As an alternate to the above mentioned kit bag. Acquire an empty MRE box and cut off the top flaps; Use it as a storage box for items you want easy access to, store it under your cot.

4. Bring a loofah and scrub the hell out of your legs when you get to shower. I saw allot of guys get staph/merca infections because they only brought a bar of soap.

5. Freezer bags.

6. If attending a winter course; put your canteen inside your sleeping bag with you. When your moving put one inside your top. Alternate every hour to keep them from freezing. Same goes for your compass.

7. Do not put the electrolyte mix you may receive in all your water sources when going out. You may end up looking like you got in a fight with a box of powdered donuts before you find a clean water point.

8. Take your DLAB and TABE before attending.
*Not sure if this is still a permitted practice or not. May need clarification.

9. Gut a strip of 550 cord and separate the black/white strand. Poke a hole "the cross hair" in the center of your protractor. Tie a knot 3x the size as the hole you made and run the string through. Once the string is through tie another 3x size knot on the running end so the protractor is wedged by the knots. Use a lighter on the "bottom side knot" of the protractor; heat it so you can press it flat up against it - DON'T MELT YOUR PROTRACTOR! Put the cross hair on your start point and run the string over your end point. No lines drawn on your map and you save time! Note: the strings width adds a potential 50m drift to your path, so use this method with plenty of close attack points.

SFAS 06-05
Selected May 2005

Nice thread, I think it'll help a lot, coming from some of the younger guys...funny how a lot of the "advice" is the same as we got 20 years ago.

Thanks for all the excellent advice.

I will be attending the Feb/2011 class (I believe it is 005-11) and I am curious how many pairs of boots you all brought?

Right now I've just got two broken in pairs (my Bellevilles and a pair of Rocky sv2's) and was pondering how many pairs I should have in rotation.

The packing list calls for 2 pairs of boots and that's all I needed. Any more would really be overkill in my opinion. With that said, I would suggest the following about boots:

1. Do not get the "SOPC Special" and remove toe and heel cups and a softer sole. They exist for a reason. I saw a few candidates seriously hurt their toes kicking a log or such during land-nav or even dropping things on them. Also, the soles will come apart during rucks possibly and you may hold up your team.

2. Make sure that you boots have drain holes. You will be getting wet and the water needs to go somewhere. My Blackhawks did not have holes and made it miserable for some of the events. The first thing I did when I got back was put drainage holes in them.

3. Instead of bringing extra boots, I suggest bringing extra insoles. Changing socks, changing the insoles, and powdering the inside of the boots will make them pretty dry and like new. Greatly saves weight, too.

4. Campdry your boots with about 3 coats, but don't clog the holes.

5. Make sure at least one of your boots have a hard sole. Descending ropes will burn them up if they do not.

I went last month
 

I just got back from SFAS last month 10-10 and got selected. Here is what I noticed....

1. Bring lots of T shirts, socks, and uniforms. I would seriously recommend a shirt for every day that you are there. I only had 7 or 8 and I was bumming b/c they never get that clean in the wash bin. I also really cherished my "free time" and running down to laundry, running back, hanging them to dry takes time.

I brought 5 uniforms, should have brought more. The dirtier they get the less they breath the more you sweat.

Sock and foot powder are key. I used thin issue socks and did not have a problem but I did a lot of foot prep before I went.

2. Foot prep, get them tough, learn to treat blisters and learn how your boots effect them, pre-cut mole skin so you can slap it on and CM. TUFF FOOT, EPSON SALT BATHS before you go. Helped me.

3. At least when I went the packing list was not scrutinized, bring the stuff on the list and bring extras, if sneaker boots fly wear them, if not have some issue boots so they don't kick you back.

4. Don't be light don't be late. They weigh your ruck with high speed digital scales 3-4 lbs over is a good so that your safe.

5. You don't need sexy muscles you need functional ones. I did a lot of upper body in prep and my arms came back noodles. Focus on leg strength, solid base of cardio and strong upper back.

6. MOST IMPORTANT don't assess yourself out. At the APFT I did by my count 64ish PU and took a break the TAC SGT looked and me and said 38! I knocked out 20 more and collapsed. I thought to myself that I was going to be 41 clubbed and got bummed out. If I had quit on myself at that moment I would have been a VW for the rest of the 19 days. I kept going and learned that I had maxed the PU during my selection counseling. The mind games start at jump! Stick to min by min event by event always doing your best.

7. TWO QUART STRAWS ARE A MUST! I got one from a cool Xray and it saved my life. They are worth the 20 bucks!

8. Land Nav-- do it before you go. Understand hand rails, back stops and attack pts. Go out at night, I did not and never found a point in the dark either day of STAR. I had to run around like a mad man all morning to get my points before index. I was really tired for the first day of team week.

9. Get around the motivated guys and stay clear of the weak ones. It is a interview and you have to stand out positively. At the same time always help out a buddy. Carry your share of the weight and don't leave any one out flapping.

10. The SOPC guys are f*cking studs. They have been working out hard for months leading up to SFAS. Don't let them burn you on the transition rucks or you will be dropped. They also all know each other from Airborne, SOPC, OSUT so don't piss them off. Its a good way to get peered low.]

11. Bring your TABE and DLAB scores with you! You will get to chill while others take the test. Also you can do the TABE at your home station as many times as you want to max it with 12.9

12. Do your research about the MOS, languages and Groups. Have a 1st 2nd and 3rd pick for each. I tried to fudge the DLAB to get spanish got a 96 and got Urdu. I had not ever heard of Urdu until then.

13. Remember that if you can stick through 19days of suck your life will forever be changed, your options will increase expediently, and you will take from the course a confidence and pride you can only get at selection. You can do it, shit I am an X-RAY TECH and I was fine:D

Guys, there are some real pearls here, thanks for your contributions.

Those who have not yet been, you should be all over these comments. You may not like all of them, but they represent snapshots of various classes and opinions from BTDTs who took the time and effort to write them up.

If non-selects would like to contribute, please drop me a PM with your comments, I will review them and will let you know to post them or not.

Appreciate the feedback.

TR

Congrats on getting selected. In the future...try to keep your attempts at "fudge" to yourself. There's enough challenges out there without you artificially adding to it.

WILCO

deleted

You will take it during SFAS. Don't worry about trying to get it done prior, worry about being physically fit for Basic, AIT, Airborne, SFAS, etc.

The TABE test will measure your education level.

September 2010
Class 10/10
18-xray (National Guard)

A lot of good points here, so I'll just focus on where I saw people getting dropped.

1. Day 1: PT Test. Don't come to SFAS if you're just barely passing the PT test. The cadre use a very tough standard and you will have wasted everyone's time. Fast, jerky pushups won't cut it. You need to drop your chest to the ground, keep your eyes looking up, move your whole body up together, and try to extend your arms almost to the point of going up on your fingertips - and it has to be slow enough to easily count. That's the only way to guarantee your pushups are counted. A lot of people got dropped on the PT test.
2. Gate Week: The standards for gate week are not that hard by themselves. The fact that you have to do it all running through sand, up hills, and crossing small rivers, makes it more challenging. I would like to post the time hacks since all the active duty guys had that information before showing up, but I don't want to be accused of G2ing the course. Needless to say, you should be comfortable running up to 6 miles and rucking up 10 miles. I was amazed at how many "pt studs" didn't make one or more of the gates. I can only conclude that some guys were only training for one kind of event. Some guys just couldn't run 6 miles. For SOPC, we never ran distance but we did a lot of interval training and that seemed to help.
3. TABE: Don't fail the TABE test. If you're like me and haven't done basic math problems in >15 years, do yourself a favor and get a TABE study book. The problems are not hard, but if you're out of practice you'll be giving yourself minor aneurysms trying to remember how to do them.
4. Psyche Test: As others have said, just answer the questions truthfully. However, I have one caveat to add - don't overthink the questions like I did. This is not a civilian psyche test to discover all the nuances of your unique personality. This is a test to determine if you fit with SF. If they ask a question like "Do you sometimes feel like violently attacking someone?", they mean "are you really thinking about doing that?" They don't mean it the way I took it like "Yeah, I have imaginary thoughts of beating people up all the time when people piss me off." That earned me an interview with the psychologist where I had to explain they were just wishful thinking thoughts, not real intentions. So, just use common sense. Also, there's a ton of repetitive questions, so try not to accidentally mark the wrong bubble about things such as "Do you see imaginary people or animals?"
5. Nasty Nick: I don't know if anyone got dropped for performing poorly on Nasty Nick, but it reflects badly on you if you fail obstacles. Make sure you are good at climbing ropes before you show up.
6. Land Nav: The only advanced land nav I ever did was at SOPC before showing up to selection, and I got all 4 points on the first day, so you don't necessarily have to be an expert before showing up. Just be a good learner. The biggest (and saddest) reasons people failed were (a) losing their map, or (b) losing their weapon. I saw some really good candidates dropped from the course because they lost their map. Please, buy a good map case and tie it securely to your body!!! Tie your weapon to your body if necessary. The draw monsters are nasty and they will rip everything out of your pockets. When you realize your map is gone (in the dark), it will be too late. Speaking of the dark, they tell you you need to discover at least 2 points before daylight if you wish to succeed. But that wasn't the case for me. My first point was 12 kilometers. It was ridiculously dark, like walking through a closet with no lights on. Your progress will be very slow, but don't despair, your land nav techniques will get you there. I didn't get to my first point until 7:50 am. I ran for an hour and a half to get my last point on time, but I still got all my points. PACE COUNT!! Most of the guys who had trouble, did not use their pace count. You should NEVER depend on the roads and trails on the map being accurate. You should not count firebreaks. If you use your pace count and azimuth, you will know exactly when you hit your next check point. You won't be wondering if it's the correct road or not. Also, use your compass A LOT at night. I walk straight during the day, but at night it was amazing how I could completely steer off in the wrong direction. I was so sure I was walking straight that I thought my compasses were wrong when I checked them. Trust and use your compasses. Or, if you can see the stars, memorize a few so you can approximately gauge your direction. Use the clearings on the map (such as the bowling alleys). They are accurate and great for verifying your position and handrailing at night. I wouldn't trust the draws much at night, but don't be afraid to bust draws during the day if you can see through them. They can save a lot of time, and you can usually find old paths through them during the day. At night is a different story...
7. Team Week: It was sad how many guys made it through to team week, performed well on events, but then fell out of transition rucks. The transition rucks were faster than gate week, so... you just need to be good at rucking fast and through sand. There's no secret method. You can't really prepare for the events except to be good at lashing and tying ropes. Most of the time, you won't be in charge of the apparatus design, so you just have to make do with whatever F'd up design your PL comes up with. It's not about coming in first anyway, it's about how you adjust and work as a team. Be a team player. Don't be like one guy on my team who complained constantly about how stupid the design was or how weak people were. Yeah, he was a physical stud, but he got peered out of Selection.

Know how to pack your MOLLE. I moved my pack high up on the frame and packed all the heavy stuff on top. I think that helped a lot *for me*. Everyone's different. However, there is no substitution for time under a ruck. You need to give your body time to adjust to the weight of carrying a ruck sack for long periods and distances. It will also help you with team weak. People talk so much about different work-out routines, but I think the simplest way to get in shape for SFAS is alternate running and rucking in the mornings and safe/moderate (i.e. don't hurt yourself) cross-fit style workouts in the afternoons (for overall muscle training - i.e. beach-body muscles are useless). Change up your running with intervals. Make sure you can ruck a 15 min/mile pace. That's all I would do. If you only lift weights in the gym, you may look sexy in the mirror, but my 36 y/o normal-looking-ass will be passing you on the runs or rucks.

My final point is about boots and blisters. Standard issue boots may be good for some people, but they're terrible for my feet and a lot of other people's feet as well. There's no reason why you should show up with boots that don't work well for your feet. I saw people who's feet were completely destroyed. That makes everything so unnecessarily miserable. There are many options available. I like the Blackhawks. They are built like a running shoe with no break in time, and they're very comfortable. Lots of people I know like them. However, you should get drainage holes installed as someone else mentioned. Otherwise they tend to get heavy when wet. I heard a lot of people like Garmand (sp?) boots. I was a dumbass, and just before Selection I got psyched out and bought OTB boots. I kept hearing about how great they were (so light and they dry so quickly). I was worried about my Blackhawks being so heavy with water. I wore my Blackhawks most of the time, but one day I tried the OTBs and, of course, I got blisters, and they bothered me the rest of Selection. Don't do that. Stick to what you know. As for popping blisters - at first I tried leaving them as the Medics recommended, but it was incredibly painful walking on them. So finally I popped them with an alcohol-sterilized needle, and most of the pain went away in a day.

Oh, one more point - hot weather. I forgot to mention how many people dropped due to heat casualties. Some people simply don't do well in heat, but there are many things you should be doing to avoid heat injury. I sweat more and get more overheated than most people I know. I obviously drank a lot of water as recommended. I drank two Salt Rehydration Packs per day and also added my own sugar-free rehydration flavoring to make it more palatable. Sip your water continuously and drink your rehydration mix gradually but steadily. Too much will make you throw up. I drank a whole pack during an event and the other throughout the day to recover. I could feel the difference it made in my muscle recovery/endurance. Also (this is optional), it was very hot during our team weak so I wore my ACU blouse without my t-shirt. The cadre gave me a weird look about it, but I wasn't penalized and I think it literally saved me from being a heat casualty.

Ok, one more point: Ice!! Ice is freely available. I iced my feet every day, and it made a tremendous difference. I know I'm a little older than other candidates, but my feet were aching every day, and with ice they almost good as new the next day.

Good luck everyone!

One more piece of advice:

I swear that Camp Mackall was designed by M.C. Escher, you can walk in a 10 mile circle and the entire way will be uphill.

There is also a weather control device installed. The second you leave the gate it starts to rain.

I was in class 503-08 (May of '08), and I know a lot has changed since with respect to particulars. It blows my mind that the gates and the standards for them are actually briefed now, but that brings me to the one piece of advice I would like to add to that presented thus far:

Do not try to game SFAS. This goes along with assessing yourself out. You are always being evaluated. Trying to calculate how much of an effort you need to put forth to get a "GO"or a good eval for an event and then metering out your effort and expending the minimum you deem necessary is a good way to skyline yourself as unsuitable. There were plenty of folks in my class that I heard strategizing their way around the events and through SFAS that found themselves standing in the non-select formation with sad faces on the last day.

On second thought, if any of that would have seemed like a good idea to you in the first place...go right ahead. :D

Class 07-10
April 2010

Socks - I took 16 pair, should have taken a few more. Not a necessity, but they just didn't feel right after hand washing and hanging dry.

Boots - I took three pair. I would recommend taking three. Your feet will get wet nearly every day. I would have one pair in my ruck (packing list), one on my feet, and one in the tent drying from the day before. It was a good rotation for me. Two issued pair and a pair of Danners.

Feet - I know its been hammered before, but its so important. Know what works for you before you go. I'm glad I got blisters a couple of times during my train up for selection, because by the time they showed up at SFAS, I knew how to take care of them and what worked for me. Take your boots and socks off and elevate your feet any time you have down time.

Sandals - Really wish I would have taken a pair of Crocs. Those that did took them to land nav and could let their feet air out while walking to the port-o-jons, etc.

Training for SFAS - A lot of personal preference here, but I'll give what I did. 1) Legs - I ran three times a week and rucked three times a week. I was working my legs hard six days in a row. I incorporated hills in nearly all my workouts. I hammered my legs so they were used to working hard every day. 2) Upper Body - I personally think upper body is important. You'll need strength for rope climbing, obstacles, team week, etc. We had some weak people when it came to team weak, and their lack of physical strength showed. It definitely can slow your team down. Forearm strength is also important 3) Rucking - There is a lot of advice on rucking on this site. My ruck training will look inadequate to most, but it worked for me. I rucked three times a week, twice for three miles, and once a week a six miler. This advice was given to me by a couple of QP's who believe if you go any further than six miles you risk the chance of injury, and you really aren't gaining anything. I stuck with that strategy and it worked for me. I never slowed down in the longer rucks, and never stopped walking during land nav other than at my points or to do a map check. A guy on my team from Ranger Bat trained the same way, and he was a stud. He was good to go on all ruck events as well. But, to each his own.

Stay positive and have fun.

A Reality Check
 

Hey, just a quick message for guys coming from the civilian world to military. I think it's important to be aware that joining the military and going to selection and the Q course is not one big glorious adventure. It's a huge shock going from the civilian world where time is money and you are treated in a civilized way. One of the hardest adjustments for me is the enormous amount of time spent doing nothing, waiting for something to happen. I am so used to working hard to be productive during my day. In addition, you are constantly treated either like an infant or a prisoner. I came from a program management position in DoD, running multi-million dollar programs, to an environment where most SF cadre hate the 18-xray program, don't want you there, and treat you like a complete idiot and don't mind showing you how insignificant you are by having you standing around all day doing nothing. You will typically have no idea what's going on until the day something happens. If you have a family or significant other, you will not be given opportunities to see them, even when there's time, because it's too much paperwork to give you leave. While in hold periods between classes, you will be with cadre who consider it their mission in life to weed you out for any possible reason. Being in hold is a shitty existence where your time and efforts will be constantly mismanaged and your training will make no sense. You will experience certain cadre who apparently are placed in charge of you as a punishment. They will constantly play fuck-fuck games with you to convince you and themselves of the power they have over you, and you will listen to endless long speeches about how great they are and how you should be humbled just to be in their presence. You will listen to long speeches about all the things you shouldn't do while learning that your cadre have and still do those things which they claim shows lack of integrity and professionalism.

I just want people to know the other side of what you're getting yourself into so your're not imagining some illusionary, romantic path of glory. You will spend a lot of time thinking about how much you could be accomplishing with your life outside the army while you stand around doing nothing or playing stupid games. The actual classes and cadre who run them are good, but you will spend a whole lot of time before sopc and in between classes hating life. That's reality. I thought someone should say it.

Good luck Gentlemen!

Any thoughts from others on the above post?

I think it is one person's perspective. An unfiltered opinion based on his personal experience. Just like his previous post on this thread was.

That attitude is probably one of the reasons that the 18X program is going away. People can serve in a regular unit and see what the Army experience is all about before coming to SF. I was an Infantryman before going SF, and once the SFQC was over, I was shocked at how much better it was in SF. And our cadre screwed with us mercilessly, much worse than they do now. In hindsight, the SFQC looked a lot better after it was over than when we were in it.

Anyone who has ever been on a jump with the 82nd can tell you about the hassles there in the conventional Army. It takes all day and then some for them to finally exit an airplane.

There is pressure on the cadre to take everyone that can get through the pipeline. I do not think that is a good thing. There is probably some pushback from this.

Leave is not permitted during SFAS. That keeps people from dropping 4187s for a free plane trip back to NC and quitting the first day. Not sure what the policy is beyond that, but processing a DA31 Leave Request is an easy thing at any unit PAC.

If you saw the Discovery Channel special on SFAS, instructions there are taken from the board. We are looking for people who can take and follow instructions, but who are also flexible.

The IG is always available if people are violating standards or being abusive.

If amatlis has let some bitterness color his comments, well, take it with a grain of salt. He has completed SFAS and was selected. amatlis, take a look back at this after a few months and let us know if you still feel this way.

TR

Wake up for a 1500hrs jump was usually 0200...with several manifest calls, equipment and weapons issue, pre-jump training, etc, we'd be on the planes by noon...after takeoff, we'd fly around for a couple of hours before jumping...after several more manifest calls, chute shake out and all, it would be 2000hrs before we were back in the barracks to clean our weapons and get them turned in by 2200 hrs so we could shower and get to bed for PT at 0530...

A day in the field during SFQC was better than a day in garrison in the 82nd...appreciate the opportunity...

"I just want people to know the other side of what you're getting yourself into so your're not imagining some illusionary, romantic path of glory. You will spend a lot of time thinking about how much you could be accomplishing with your life outside the army while you stand around doing nothing or playing stupid games. The actual classes and cadre who run them are good, but you will spend a whole lot of time before sopc and in between classes hating life. That's reality. I thought someone should say it. "

SF is certainly not illusionary , nor is the training. Much of the needs of SF can't be gleaned from books. The "hands on" environment to include between training down time does test those who are impatient or smarter the everyone else. The ability to work successfully with third and fourth world indigenous military, will require great amounts of patience and understanding of the near understandable.
Much easier to understand the DOD office life.
Just my Zwei Centavos. Blitzzz

It is what it is - take it or leave it...but the choice to do so may or may not be yours alone.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Individuals with Amitlas's (it's not even worth my time to check for spelling) attitude are doomed to fail if they actually squeeze though the Q and make it to a deployed team. Nay-sayers and negative attitudes will always surface when the pressure is on and you are given a task that HAS to be accomplished.

My advice to anyone who read his post and agree, is to save yourself alot of time and ass pain now and look to another occupation immediately. You either want it or you dont. Problem is, many recruits straight from the street in the 18X program do not even realize what they want from the Army, let alone SF. Too many have yet to fail at anything signifcant in their young lives therefore have no clue what it will take to succeed. Amitlas appears to be one of those types.

Quit now. One less whiner to have to worry about.

No one ever said it would be easy.

Personally, I appreciate his candor and honesty, it's just important to remember where he is in his "career." His opinion will change over time.

I'm with 1st. This guy Amatlis went. We asked his opinion. He trusted us enough to give it. Calling the kettle "not so shiny" around here can be tough.
As for the comment about jumping with the 82nd. I did that . . . once. I think there was a long stretch heading toward the door where my feet were not even on the deck -- we were packed so tight. I counted "One Slip away, two slip away, three slip away." Then climbed a riser and ran as far from that mob as I could get:D (which put me right at the turn in point)

From one of the FOG's..

In 1969, April-November, I was assigned as S4 to C 6th. I spent 8 months at Ft Bragg,, of which 2 months at Scuba in KW & Nov leave prior to Nam.

For the other 5 months (less a 3 wk FTX in Nantahala), I spent as much time as I could down on the flight line trying to bum a jump. I managed to get 27 or 28 jumps.

As a very Jr 2nd LT,, I spent a LOT OF TIME in 82nd lines,, but perseverance pays,, you just need to suck it up...

And Smile... :D:D:D:D Because your having fun..

All this...and a paycheck too.

Absolutely concur.............;););)

Big Teddy :munchin

The point of my post was not to complain. I dont have any need to do that here. I only meant to open a window of information for civilians who know nothing about the military and think it's cool and high speed all the time. There's fiction and there's reality. Everything I stated in my post is based on the realities on the ground as voiced by the majority of candidates (including the prior service guys). Why shouldn't people have that information? If it changes their mind, then clearly SF isn't for them. Am I going to quit? No. Do I think Basic training, airborne school, and sf-hold are poorly run programs that waste huge amounts of time doing nothing that could be spent training? Does the average highschool sports team have a better PT program? Yes. Most people agree. I'm just saying it. Please don't kill the messenger. I think we should want to improve these things. I'm an engineer. It's my nature to want to fix things.

On the other hand, as I said before, sopc and sf were well run (I would say excellent) programs. The cadre were professional and impressive. The training was excellent.

I'm sorry to the military people who took this the wrong way. It's just information. I have received several messages from people thanking me for the alternate perspective (sorry i can't respond to everyone just yet). *I am grateful and happy to be to be in the sf pipeline. *It has been a lifelong dream of mine. I hope SF is an environment where it's acceptable to point out the improves and sustains...

amatlis - Nothing personal, just a few "words of wisdom". You're like most other engineers I've run into over the years. All about identifying the problem without considering the human factors (tact). Right doesn't mean popular. FWIW - you've described situations that've existed pre-Hannibal in every military in the world. Discovering it for yourself and learning to deal with it is one of the rites of passage. I've got an office full of guys who're ALWAYS willing to share their observations about "the Emperor's clothes". Probably why some of them are at HQ and not on teams anymore. Messengers make great targets; just one of the facts of life. blue02hd is a personal friend; he's also a deployed Team Leader. His reply is right up the middle WRT the typical reaction you can expect to get from your post. Guys who are actually in the fight and still having to put up with the local versions of the Charlie Foxtrots (cluster f**k) you're sharing from your training perspective aren't going to be inclined to "share the love". If you learn to fill the wasted time constructively, and put a positive spin on it, you'll be an asset anywhere you wind up. Otherwise, nobody will want you around - it won't matter how good you are. Human nature; nobody likes having their noses rubbed in the s**t. The further up the food chain they are, the less they like it - and the more likely they are to take their dislike out on the messenger. Good luck. And learn a little more about human nature. After all - people are the tools of your new trade. Learn to influence them gently and you'll get a lot further.

I'll keep it short.

Just remember when the rumors and G-2 are flying around, no matter what--if you were given a detailed day-by-day briefing of what you were expected to do at selection--you still have to do it. Its more fun when they keep you guessing anyways.

Also--on a slightly different note...

There is no delicate way to put this, but use those pink slips to the best of your ability. There are a lot of reasons people probably shouldn't be in the program, ranging from the subtle to the horrifyingly obvious. Thus far my experience has shown that there is still a light at the end of the tunnel and the really serious cases will either take care of themselves or be spotted and outed by the cadre (thank god). Anyhow, be fair and be clear why you think someone is unqualified, whether it be they complain about everything, have a bad attitude, act entitled, don't put forth the effort, ride your coattails, or are just that dude you get that baaaad feeling about. Be sure you put it down when you get the opportunity. Articulate yourself as well as you possibly can. And perhaps most importantly, remember, as one individual related to me, "It's called Special Forces, not special friends."

This is just my very humble opinion. Am I the most qualified person to comment on this? Absolutely not. Am I too harsh a judge of the relative value of others? Maybe. But I also believe that by keeping one's standard for themselves at an unattainably high level, they will likely succeed in their endeavors. Be tough, be fair.

So much for keeping it short. I hope those preparing to make the journey find some use here. This is a great thread and another great addition to the website.

Just got home from SFAS class 01-11 SELECETED 11C

Things I learned that I would change if I had to go again, along with some tips..do and dont's.

1. Cannot stress this enough, bring tons of socks. Also you can string some 550 cord from your ruck to to hang wet socks from to dry during the day. Trust me they WILL get wet

2. Any chance you get, change out your socks and powder your feet.

3. Canteen straws can make or break you. Its too hard during a ruck to keep drinking from a 1 qt. I was given one there by an X-Ray. If I had to go again I would bring several so I could give one to someone.

4. Don't cut the ruck weight close to the standard. Go over a few pounds because you will have to weigh in and it looks bad.

5. Don't be the guy sleeping when your not authorized to, especially during team week

6. Eat EVERYTHING from your MRE's

7. Don't show up with long hair! You will just look like an asshole

8. bring alot of tshirts

9. bring several insoles and change them out. Dry socks and dry insoles can turn a bad day around for you

10. Pay attention to all land nav training and try your best on the PE's

11. Learn how to pack a ruck so it will be comfortable to wear for up to 10 hours

12. Massage your legs and feet every night.

13. Spend your fireguard shifts doing deep stretches

14. Train running and rucking in sand or offroad

15. RESPECT both the cadre and peers

Thats all I can think of right now gents.. best of luck

Allow me to add to this valuable comment. Your ability to write well is also noted, along with your demographic, i.e. 19, GED, 18X, etc. When someone reads a poorly written pink slip...or one that clearly shows your lack of experience...it's noted.

Congratulations!

Congratulations on being selected.

From your point above, I realize what a miracle it was that so many of us old timers luckily squeeked through, since we only had canteens with no straws/hoses from which to drink.