Special Forces beret flashes
 

Hello.

I would like to ask a question regarding the colors and markings of the flashes that represent each of the active/NG Special Forces Groups.
More importantly, do they represent something ? What is the history behind each of the Groups distinctive unit insignia ?

Unfortunatly all my resarch came up empty. Perhaps there is a book that could shed more light on the subject?

Thank You.

Just go to the Army Institute of Heraldry. You can find all the info there.

alas, the IOH lists no history on group flashes, just the SSI. The only history I know is the black border added to the 1st grp flash after JFK was killed.

And the 5th Group was a Black Background with the Colors of the RVN Flag. The Yellow and red were later dropped after the return of the Colors from RVN and the US withdrawal.

The 3rd Herd Colors were a composite of the Group Colors that it was formed from.

The Vietnamese colors were removed from the 5th SFG flash in January of '85. I can remember standing in formation one cold morning when LTC Jacobelly told everyone that they had to change their flashes back to the original all black pre Viet Nam style.

OK - here's a mini (less than all inclusive) primer.

Traditionally, the basic colors found in the flashes/SSI/DUI represent the following in our culture:

Blue - sky, freedom, intelligence
Green - life, balance, harmony, stability, nature, forest, plains and forests of Europe
Red - blood, warfare, sacrifice, power, valor
Yellow (Gold) - hope, positive, traditional, Asia
Black - night, mystery, covert
Grey - shadowy, in-between black and white, nebulous
White - purity, overt, openness

Additionally, in the military:

Teal Blue and Gold - colors of unassigned units (e.g., pre-Branch SF)
Purple - joint service command

Additinally, the black and gold Airborne tab was retained for its historical connection to the Airborne Command SSI originally worn by SF - there was a teal blue/gold Airborne tab for a short period but it was never fully embraced or authorized.

Now, for the following (just to mention a few flashes):

5th SFG RVN - originally all black, then the black w/white border 5th SFG + diagonal stripes denoting addition of personnel from 1st SFG (yellow) and 7th SFG (red) as well as an image of RVN national colors, then back to black w/white border.

SF Det Europe - traditional forest green (Europe) of 10th SFG + diagonal stripes of FRG national flag (black, red, gold).

46th SF Co/USASFT - black (covert nature of unit) w/gold border (1st SFG unit) + diagonal stripes of Thai national flag (red, white, blue, white, red).

1st SFG - yellow (Asia) + black border added to commemorate death of JFK.

SF not assigned to SF unit - jungle green (SF branch) with grey border and diagonal stripes indicating nature of assignment (white = overt, black = covert, purple = joint).

OK - now you can ponder the rest for yourself. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Thank You for Your time gentle men :)

7th SFG - Red, recalling the patch of the FSSF.

One thing that isn't clear, tho . . . there used to be two main wing backing designs for the SF groups. One was the 10th Gp green and red. The other used the 77th SFG colors of teal blue and gold. This was passed on to the other groups as 7th Gp was used as cadre for some of the new ones. Now the wing background (for the most part) matches the flash. Any idea when/why they changed?

Flash and Wing Background info

The teal blue and gold was the background for all the Groups of the 1st SF Regiment (except the 10th and SF Det-Europe) prior to SF becoming a Branch and its expansion - as you went from Group to Group, the flash changed but the wings background for the Regiment remained the same (except for the 10th) - the new backgrounds to denote each specific Group were approved in the late-90s.

Richard

wow, these explanaitions certanly cleared up alot of trivia question stuff.

thanks

1st Bn 10th SFG also wore the SF Det Flash in the 80's at Bad Tolz.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e5.../10thcrest.jpg

Though I'm still curious as to the whole "when we became a branch" vs the Flash Changes in the mid-80's and whether or not they were related.

Richard or anyone else,
Did the 77th have a beret flash? If so, then my collection is incomplete.

The 77th never had a beret flash and the 7th had replaced the 77th by the time a beret and flash were authorized.

Richard

The Army Institute of Heraldry isn't a good choice. The information there is flawed at best, just try looking up 10th SFG, according to them we didn't get our colors until the 80s? I have a document at home that I'll scan and send, it tells the history or folk lore of how each group got there flash color.

Stras, as you well know, we became a branch for the enlisted in 1984 and officrs in 1986. Weall had flash color prior to that. After 1984 SF stndardized the colors so that 1/10 had to go to the 10th Grou color and 5th had to get the VN colors out. I arrived in Tolz just after the change, but like you still have my 1/10 colors. The wings background changed in the 90s as each group was allowed to mak it more group specific.

Actually, I was in Toelz when 1/10 reverted to the 10th Group flash...it occurred 30 September 1983...I was commanding A-123 at the time and we returned from an exercise in Greece...we jumped into Karen and as we collected our air items and got on the bus the Battalion XO and CSM were busy telling us we were out of uniform because we were wearing a Det Europe flash and not a 10th Group flash...Det Europe was going to be redesignated ARSOF(E) or something like that...much ado about nothing, but it did give some of the grown-ups a reason to be petulant...

We didn't change it until 84..... I'm pretty sure we were out of VN by then......:D I was one that "converted" from a VN flash to an all black one. TS

Yeah, I don't know what's with the dates they have. I know we switched to the green/red background in late 68 or 69. Maybe they weren't "officially" adopted till later?
I'd like to see that document you have.

Actually - COL Guest wanted the RVN era colors out of the 5th SFGA flash.

RE: 5th SFG flashes:

• The original 5th SFG flash was all black in 1961.
  
• The 2nd pattern black w/white border (added in 1962) flash was worn but not officially authorized until 1964.
  
• First pattern USASFV (Prov) flash (never authorized) prior to 5th SFG deployment was all yellow with three diagonal red stripes.
  
• The 3rd pattern 5th SFG flash was the black w/white border and diagonal yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow stripes denoting (a) colors of original USASFV flash, (b) colors of early TDY teams from 1st and 7th SFGs and (c) RVN flag.

On 7 Dec 84 COL James Guest, 5th SFG CDR, submitted a request to the Director, Institute of Heraldry, requesting that the official flash of the 5th SFG be changed back to the solid black with white border because:

• The colors of a foreign flag should not be incorporated in a US Army beret flash
• The RVN and the original purpose for having the RVN colors in the flash no longer existed
• The 5th SFG was no longer oriented towards SEA
• The mission and organization of the 5th SFGA had been significantly transformed to meet modern requirements and the change of beret flash would depict that metamorphosis

The request was approved by the Institute of Heraldry on 16 Jan 85 and the official change took place in a ceremony on 6 May 1985.

* Sutherland, Ian. Special Forces of the US Army; 1990.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

I was referring to the similarity in the timeframe of the two actions (Branch and Flash Change) and whether or not becoming a branch caused the standardization of the flashes change. This was prior to my coming on the scene, and I've yet to find a good reference on the matter.

Did you guys get any more Reutberg out there yet? I'm cracking open the last of my Resupply Bundle stash.

ARSOFE wore the Green flash with the German Colors until they were Deactivated and reactivated as 7th Special Operations Support Command (SOSC) Theater Army (TA). 7th SOSC(TA) then switched to an almost teal blue flash with what I called "rainbow stripes". I believe this was right before the move from Bad Tölz to Stuttgart in late 1991/1992.

5TH Group Flash
 

The white border on the fifth group flash was added in 1964 to honor President Kennedy. White is the traditional Vietnamese color of mourning.

So they honored JFK by mourning him a year before his assassination? :confused:

Richard

1964 was a year after his assassination...;)

You been drinking again? ;)

Richard

Not right now...

How about now? Cause I sure am.:D

Yup...

A little on the 5th Group Flash
 

A little on the 5th Group Flash

http://www.groups.sfahq.com/5th/flash_and_insignia.htm

The last unit in 5th Gp to wear the old flash was ODA 575 which didn't change over to the new flash until the summer of 1985.

In winning bar trivia bets, I've found it useful to quote those of authority like, The Reaper, Ambush Master and finally Richard.

- sorry fellas, I couldn't resist.

WD

confirmed rumors
 

It is interesting that you would have this information available. A barracks rat that was the COL'S driver/bitchboy had presciently blabbed such nefarious behavior would occur. Claimed to have been within earshot during certain conversations. Group HQ opsec for you.

Poster on the wall:

Top: Think OPSEC

Bottom: Who talked?

Hand written below: Who didn't?


Caused a lot of rumors with negative chatter about our fearless leader. As an enlisted man, I was just happy to know someone up top was keeping their eyes on the important things.:rolleyes:

Here's a good one for trivia's sake - the JCRC flash - never authorized - I've got a flash but never saw one of the wing background ovals.

The black is for the nature of the mission and the orange reflective of the VS-17 panel pieces worn on the uniforms (jungle fatigues - upper front pockets and across the back of the shoulders) by the field teams.

Those of us TDY to JCRC wore the USASFT (46th Co) flash.

Here's an interesting web-site to browse:

http://www.military-insignia.us/Page...Insignia.html#

Richard

How exactly does an unauthorized flash come to life?

hey...as long as my answer sounds better than the other guys answer...with info from other folks..(correct or not) works for me:lifter

as long as I get a beer out of it...it's all good:p

The command comes up with a proposal to be submitted for approval - while awaiting 'official' approval, either unit $$ purchase and issue or individual purchase of the proposed flash is done and the unit begins wearing it until told to stop or authorized and it continues.

Richard

Like so many things my kids do. :D Explains why the corgy looked like a poodle and was sorta green two weeks ago. Poor dog thinks her name is WTF!!?!

Does anyone have the FANK Training Command flash? I had a copy (it was close but wrong). I'd like to see what a real one looked like.

Go to the link in post #32 - you'll find it. ;)

Richard

Stras, no joy with the Reutberg yet. All, as soon as I can get the document scanned I'll post it. It's a brochure from the “The Regiment First Formation". Tells the history of all flashes and why the colors are what they are.

Any reason why each color was selected for that particular Group ?

Reread post #6 of this thread.

Richard