Mexican drug lords retaliate.
 

I find this shocking and despicable. How do you combat such a enemy?

Mexican drug lords retaliate; kin of slain marine are killed
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
MEXICO CITY — Assailants on Tuesday gunned down the mother, aunt and siblings of a marine killed in a raid that took out one of Mexico's most powerful cartel leaders — sending a chilling message to troops battling the drug war: You go after us; we wipe out your families.
The brazen pre-dawn slayings came just hours after the navy honored Melquisedet Angulo as a national hero at a memorial service.
"The message is very clear: It's to intimidate not only the government but its flesh and blood," said Jorge Chabat, a Mexican expert on drug cartels. "It's to intimidate those in the armed forces so they fear not only for their own lives, but the lives of their families."


Federal officials had warned that last week's killing of drug lord Arturo Beltran Leyva, known as the "boss of bosses," could provoke a violent backlash from smugglers, who have gone after federal police in the past after the arrest of high-ranking cartel members.
Beltran Leyva was among the most-wanted drug lords in Mexico and the United States, and he was the biggest trafficker taken down by President Felipe Calderón's administration so far. U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration officials blamed his cartel for much of the bloodshed across Mexico.
Even so, the country was shocked by the brutal slayings of Angulo's family at its home just hours after the dead marine's mother, Irma Cordova, 55, attended his memorial service in Mexico City, where she received the Mexican flag covering his coffin.


His brother, Benito Angulo, 28; his sister, Jolidabey Angulo, 22; and his aunt, Josefa Angulo, 46, also were killed shortly after midnight when gunmen wielding assault rifles broke down the door of their home. His sister, Miraldeyi Angulo, 24, was reported in serious condition at a hospital.
The family's home, in southern Tabasco state, was littered with more than two dozen bullet casings.
Hit men linked to Beltran Leyva's cartel have a strong presence in Tabasco, a Gulf state bordering Guatemala, and were suspected of being behind the attack. State and federal forces searching for the assailants set up roadblocks across the state Tuesday.


The navy did not say whether it was taking special measures to protect marine families, including Angulo's two children, ages 16 months and 3 years. Authorities did not say where they or their mother were when their relatives were slain.
Calderón called the attack "a cowardly act" and vowed to press forward in his war involving more than 45,000 troops.
"We will not be intimidated by criminals without scruples like those who committed this barbarity," he said Tuesday. "Those who act like this deserve the unanimous repudiation of society, and they must pay for their crime."
While the armed forces have led Calderón's crackdown against organized crime that has seen more than 15,000 people killed by drug violence since it began in 2006, direct attacks by cartels on troops are rare, especially for marines, who only recently started playing a major role in the drug war.


Most of the killings have been among rival smugglers, according to the federal government. Hundreds of local, state and federal police also have been slain, but only a handful of soldiers have died at the hands of traffickers.
Angulo, 30, was the only marine killed in last Wednesday's raid that sparked a nearly two-hour shootout at an apartment complex in the colonial city of Cuernavaca, south of Mexico City. Two other marines were wounded.
Angulo was also the only marine whose identity was made public of the more than 60 who took part in the operation, which also left six other gunmen dead in addition to Beltran Leyva.

http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/322404

Mexico is a failed state
 

Sadly, Mexico has reached a level of chaos and can only be characterized as a failed state.

Options:

1 - Send in the Texas Rangers to prop up the Mexican LE / criminal justice system.

2 - Decapitate the cartels by other means.

Either way, annexation with enforcement / deterrent by US security forces.

That's my New Year's prediction for 2011. :D

Simple, YOU KILL THEM!!! Don't waste our Treasure, Time, or our People attempting to "Prosecute" them, they're laughing at the way we "Play all PC and Fair"!!! There's NO Justice like HOT Justice!!! Just SMOKE'EM!!! Poof Soot, all gone!!!

Take care.
Martin

Right on AM!

No reason for more nation building. Other countries are more than capable of building their own representative governments.

Outside the US, kill or capture serious bad guys. Kind of like what happened to Manuel Noriega, or Pablo Escobar, or Zarqawi. Inside the US, due process. Isn't that the difference between offensive and defensive US national security?

I'm guessing the deterrent effect would not be underestimated.

Back in the 70s and 80s British SAS operators would shoot identified IRA terrorists on site with no warning or attempt to apprehend whatsoever. Those cartel members in Mexico became something worse than simple narcotics smugglers a long time ago.

Agree with you both AM and mojaveman. Kill the all, from the lowest dealer to the jefe. Thats really the only answer that I can think of. I'd think it's not hard to pick out who's a narco since I've read that they drive around in convoys armed almost as well as some PMC's in Baghdad.

It all reminds me of Columbia in the 90's. When they were removed, the Mexicans took over from them. I have to wonder who is waiting in the wings to take over from the Mexicans?

The Columbians retaliated in the same manner as the Mexicans are doing. I think I remember they called it, "pulling the root".

That said, remove the drug cartel heads, and all personell, by any means available.
AM

:munchinBefore NDD jumps in here with both of his feet!!!! Exactly where is this Columbia that you speak of?!?!?!:munchin

Why must we limit our activities to just outside the US? Seems wrong is still wrong, despite an unseen line drawn in the dirt. If the govt., either one, US or Mexico can't or won't fix, then it must be the 'good' citizens of both countries to route out the cartels.

If we make the business landscape so terrible for them to do business, then they will take their business elsewhere.

My apologies, my brain is not working on all cylinders tongiht.

I was refering to news media early 90's, and friends who lived in Columbia at the time.The stuff they were telling via letters and phone calls. I was living in Miami during a lot of the drug crap that was going on there, late 80s early 1990's.
It seemed like the killings were almost daily at one point.

I clearly remember the local papers called the 'family killings' directly realated to the Columbian Drug business and that the Drug Cartels called killing family members 'pulling the root', whatever that meant to them. I thought it was horrible. That was when I decided to move away from Miami. It was not even safe to drive the interstate anymore. That is what I was refering to..

I got a migraine, brain is sorta kinda fubar'd on cafergot. to bad there is not a smily of me sticking my foot in my mouth..:o

My point is, do you really mean Columbia (as in the university) or Colombia as in the country?!?!?!:munchin

OH crap... the country. I am going to go hide under a rock now. Spell check did not catch that. :D :rolleyes:

We can, and WILL, pick the fly-shit out of the pepper!!!:D:munchin

Remember whose minefield you are attempting to run through!!

I deserved that!:D _I_ should have caught that mistake.

Let's see if I can navigate the QP minefield.

With respect wet dog, wrong is still wrong as you say, but the US Constitution protects US citizens in the US. I'm OK with manhunting sans borders. Can capture but need due process for Amcits within the US. Otherwise we become a security state or lawless wild, wild west.

That said, the jig is up with transnational syndicates including AQ and narco-terror HVTs who exploit the gaps in LE and governance to do their nasty work.

Now I gotta go check my pepper mill.

Were it not for the demand for drugs created in the good old USA, Mexico and Colombia, et al would not have the problems they have. For us to think up "hard core" scenarios to solve the problem there when we refuse to deal with OUR problem here is the real problem... IMHO.

One prime example of this comes to mind right away...

I learned once that certian American chemical companies make money from the Colombian drug trade because their chemicals are used to process the cocaine that eventually makes it's way here.

Crazy World isn't it?

And what if the US Constitution ceases to protect US citizens? LE does not prevent crime, LE reports crime. LE is effective as a deterrent as long as citizens respect the law, criminals tend not too.

And what about the 'wild west'? Civil authority was in the hands of civil citizens. Criminals feared armed citizens much more than US Marshals. A rope and a tall tree was the biggest deterrent of all.

WD

p.s., I am welcoming debate.

DOW Chemical is a publicly traded company, share holders receive the reward for stock performance. Executive are bonus'd by stock performance. It is legal, but is it right? How do you balance a company who does many other wonderful things with chemical development against those who use certain chemicals to process drugs. You can not hold DOW responsible for illegal drugs any more than you can blame a gun manufacturer for homicides for #2 pencils for illiteracy.

Concur completely with Wet Dog. W/o desecrating our Constitution it is time for citizens of civilization to stop the insanity against the innocents. The foul digits must be cut off. The charter of civilization allows nothing less. Find them, verify their deeds, then summarily remove them.

As for what waits in the wings look to the drug cartel organization in Afghanistan. Now look to the growth of Islam in Central America, esp in the Tabasco and Chiapas regions. It's not waiting anymore.

IMHO anyways.

I find this very hard to believe.

The production of cocaine that I have seen did not use too many pharmaceutical or high-grade chemicals. Total annual cocaine HCL production for the entire planet usually hovers around 700 tons, IIRC. That would be a drop in the bucket for Dow in terms of scale.

TR

DOW is a big company... lets blame them anyway.
Pres. Bush caused Katrina, DOW chemicals causes drug addiction.
Rich people are bad...

This is the long and the short of the issue.

My question is, if we were to go downrange and start just killing guys that we think are involved in the drug trade don't we just become a really big cartel with nukes?

Legalize it or start summary executions. The middle ground is an untenable "status quo" where the current prohibition mentality creates money and power for very unsavory characters and people of weak character are exploited like the sheep they are. Illegal drugs corrupt everybody they touch - on both sides of the law. How long before we get another generation of Kennedys financed by drug money this time?

I wasn't trying to finger anyone but just trying to shed some light on an enormous and complicated problem. European chemical companies do the same thing. They don't sell directly to the producers of cocaine, they sell to third party buyers and the chemicals eventually make their way to South America. It's true. Perhaps the entire business could be regulated better than it already is.

It was enlightening to me when I heard it. I have a close relative who is a narcotics agent here in the Golden State and deals with the problem intimately. Chemicals are also used by the Mexican Mafia who are probably the Worlds largest producer of Methamphetamine.

We've been regulating precursor chemicals in the cocaine producing regions since the begining. I worked source interdiction in the 80's, other members here are still involved in the charade. The chemicals are legal, have legitimate industrial uses, etc., etc. And you can find the production sites by following the pollution upstream to the source, usually a clandestine :rolleyes: lab surrounded by piles of rotting waste and empty 55 gal chemical drums. In Bolivia, the chemicals used to be smuggled/diverted from Brazil by the commercial truck load. (One of the unintended consequences of the road building programs to "open up" the undeveloped interior of the respective countries.) Until we remove the incentive (US consumption and the money derived from it) producers will find a way to satisfy demand. It's basic capitalism - cost/benefit analysis. Increase the risk and/or reduce the profit and the problem changes too. Unfortunately, Mexico's violence problem is hostage to our inability to deal with the consumption demand. Given the current administration (and the overall ineffective actions of previous administrations) I don't see any changes coming down the pipe. The violence will get worse until honest people have had enough or WE address the root causes. Legalize the crap and treat it like alcohol. (And yes - I'm personally familiar with the destruction drugs do. You can't save the world; you can't even save a lot of the individuals who've immersed themselves in the poison. Cut the losses and move on!) My .02

I agree.

Look at the war on drugs and how effective it is. If I am correct we intercept less than 5% of what comes across the borders yet it costs us billions of dollars to maintain. I don't use drugs but sometimes ponder how much revenue could be generated by legalizing and taxing them.

Legalize - and tax it.
 

Legalize Drugs - and then tax them like tabacco products.

A private company can still prohibit drug use if it likes, as some do with drinking and smoking.

The War on Drugs has failed and it's now causing more crime than it's worth.

Just my opinion.

Pete

I would concur on marijuana, but not on cocaine, crack, or meth. There are plenty of functional marijuana users, a few functional cocaine addicts, but I have yet to meet a functional meth or crack head, to me those are what we should be focused on. Legalize dope then tax and regulate the hell out of it, use those taxes to fund the fight against the others.

Just my .02

The problem is enabling/enablers.
Legalize it, let the addicts deal with their own problems.

We will never be able to solve the drug problem in this country until people are allowed to reap what they sow.
People should not be protected from the natural consequences of their actions.

Socialized medicine/socialism in general is the worst type of enabling.
Consequences for substance abusing individuals would be greatly reduced/mitigated.
If the nation goes down this path, we will reap what we have sown.

WD, thanks for your welcome.

Here's the deal. We have a failed state - a narco state - on our border. It is a threat to national security, a clear and present danger. (Just like the movie!)

We must target and execute operations with the intent of deterring the threat. That will get the attention of transnational narco-terrorists. They will learn to respect the law if it is enforced or they will be annihilated. Eventually they will acquiesce.

We've come a long way since the rough justice of a rope and tall tree for US citizens within the US. Except in extreme cases, the public does not support vigilantes so there is a lack of legitimacy. As imperfectly as it may sometimes be interpreted or enforced, the Constitution still protects due process.

I think LE prevents crime and works over time with the community as an effective deterrent. But in the case of Mexico, the threat requires a national security response.

In the meantime, as others have said, de-criminalize drug use. That is the surest way to decrease the revenue stream to narco kingpins and their illicit networks.

I agree that the 'war on drugs' is a failure...

...I also believe however that the war on drugs was never truly fought with any zeal whatsoever. Far too much concern placed on the 'rights' of the criminal, far too much concern placed on social sensitivities, far too much hype placed on programs like JTF-6, not enough effort placed on objectives.

Its become little more than an academic discussion of a problem with no clear solution.

Just my two cents...

which only makes the deaths of my friends who have died fighting the so-called "war on drugs", even that much more of a pill to swallow. Circa, 1989-1992. I take some pleasure that we put a sting on the bad guys, but it's of little comfort.

Well, Carlos Hathcock ( yes that Carlos ) gave me the vague impression (!) that the Phoenix Program was effective. But what the hell does he know.:rolleyes:

RIP Carl.

To attempt to equate the U.S. in any way with a drug cartel is, um, interesting.:rolleyes:

There are plenty of people that don't do drugs or try harder drugs because of possible legal ramifications. Seen and heard this for a long, long, long time.

As for marji smokers that are functional(?), anyone I know, or know of, that is/was a regular/heavy user that is now around my age, has the fuzzy focus of a 4 yo at Disneyland.

Test me on this. Ask them to calculate 33 times 7 in their head, and watch the fun. :p

I know, someone out there is now going to say they know a rocket scientist that's a heavy pot user that can work dynamics equations in their sleep.

Right:rolleyes:

I was in the Cell Tower construction industry for awhile, and I can tell you this...

I'll trust a drunk over a pot head, for one simply reason, a drunk can not fake accute reflexes, while I can not trust a pot head to think rationally.

I had a guy, who occasionally showed up for work, not quite together or ready to work. I simply said, "...clock out, go sleep in the truck". A pot head, you never know what you're getting, espically at 120' above the ground holding my life in his hands.

Power tools, cutting torches, steel structure, cranes hold ton(s) of iron and my soft flesh do not mix well.

WD

The elephant in the room remains...if you legalize drugs, tax it, use the money to fight the others, etc the violence related to DRUGS will probably go down, but the criminal scum that are killing innocents will remain. IMHO, the murderers of innocent human beings need to be removed from civilization. Period.