PRE CDQC
 

Hello everyone. Been mostly a lurker the past few months, just trying to soak up what knowledge i can without looking like too much of an idiot on here haha. Anyways after a bit of searching i really didnt come up with too much about Pre CDQD or PRE-SCUBA, on the this forum. Well recently I had the chance to attend this course, here at Ft Benning.

First and foremost i had the chance to work with an amazing Quiet Professional whos name is SFC H****, who i believe mentioned he did his time with 10th Group. He was a great influence and an awesome teacher.

Back on track. About 2 weeks ago i was unable to pass Pre CDQD :boohoo: (Great course!! Highly recommend anyone who gets the chance to GO!) It was a very hard thing for me to accept as failure is mainly never an option for me (im very hard on myself) and it was pretty much one of the hardest and most grueling courses i've ever attended. As i was saying i failed and was unable to complete the 50 meter subsurface swim. Pretty much the reason I am posting is i am seeking ANY advice I can get. I just cant seem to get past 35 meters subsurface no matter how hard I practice. I must go back and succeed! I know there are some members on dive teams out there that have passed Dive School. Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!!

Tom

Swim more...breathe less.
As stupid as it sounds, the only way you are going to get better at being underwater doing work (swimming), is being underwater doing work. The following can improve your capability:

Improve your aerobic capacity (run, bike, swim, swim underwater while holding your breath, etc...)

Most importantly - RELAX. The more relaxed you are, the less oxygen your body will pull from your lungs.

Lastly, hug the bottom of the pool.

Good luck.

Eagle

I have been swimming my legs off lately. Recently i ran about an 11:30 on my 2mi. Shouldn't I be doing better than most? There were soldiers there who barely ran a 14:30 and could knock out the 50m. This is so frustrating.. :mad:

Can you dance??

swimming under water or for that mater on the surface takes a lot of practice. Anyone can swim,, it's the flow and synchronization of your arms, hands, legs, feet, head & breathing that improves efficiency. Bad timing can burn 3-4 times the energy yet you end up at the back of the lie..

You need to find someone that can audit your swimming style to see if you need improvement in your timing.

A topic you need to read up on is O2 deprivation & apnea training. It's tricky and you need pro help with it. In very simple terms, one holds their breath until they can't. I'll not go farther. There is also the topic of Shallow Water Back-out. Another dangerous topic.

Net Net, Find a local pro and get help with your technique...

One of our locals, Mehgan Heaney-Grier is pretty good at free diving and uses apnea training to condition her mind & body. Watch her stroke at 1:10 and at 1:15 she is apnea training. This girl can dance with the fishes...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=18-NxjKfwN8

Warning: We get at least one(1) floter a month in the Florida Keys. Most are FOG's with scuba, but we have a fair share of freedivers that run into SWBO. The only "good part", because our water is so hot,, they float in two(2) days or less and are easy to recover, if the sharks don't get there first...


Good Luck...

Ill look into this. Much appreciated..

Swim faster

Relax
 

Relax, learn to swim smoother, exhale a touch of air when you feel the need to inhale and do pushups while holding your breath during commercials.

While watching TV at night every time a commercial break comes on take a few deep breaths and then do as many pushups as you can while holding your breath. When you can't do any more - while still holding your breath - move to a sitting position and tie two knots. No cheating yourself.

Ill give that a go. Those knots kicked my ass too haha.

Thanks everyone for all the advice. Much appreciated :cool:

Had a chance to do pool work with a 20th group soldier (initial W.M.) few weeks ago. He was heading to Key West. We were working mainly to smooth out side stroke, but we also did drown proofing, and underwater swim. I showed him the "key hole" stroke, paying special attention to feet kicking as hands are by the ears (timing!). Here are good visuals of the technique:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMwpNHof0hM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxpNqGDY-F0

By the 2nd day, he was pulling 50 yards+ going back and forth right after entering the pool, no warm up, nothing, which made my jaw literary dropped :eek:. Keep in mind he is not a good swimmer, hardly ever swim, and at this point, he's been swimming for only about 2, 30 min sessions. Last year, a PJ trainee did 75 yards plus which was impressive, but he spent 30 min+ warming up and building up the lung capacity. The SF guy told me the last 30 yards was pure will power. Such testament of mind over matter is an ever-present motivation for my journey towards SF.

Eagle is right, hug the bottom. A Marine Recon instructor told me it's got something to do with water density, and how you're almost literary pushing off the bottom (solid surface as opposed to just fluid), which equals greater propulsion.

Nice! Those are very helpful videos and some even better tips. One of my problem areas is the frog kick, I just cant seem to get good form down. I will be heading to the pool later today. Hopefully i can get past 35 meters today. Thanks!

Was able to achieve 40 meters today. Seems to be easier now with all the tips ive received. Thanks everyone.

::45 - ::50 is the average 50m time. That is it. The 50m is only about 2 things, being relaxed and putting out. If you "can not" do 50m, it is because you are giving up on yourself. Gut it out. I know it sucks, BTDT. It sucked every single time I have done it but I got micro lungs & don't practice breath holding. I am relaxed, I hug the bottom, I kick less & glide more, and I suck it up. Oh, and BTW, a lot of guys fail Pre-SCUBA.

x/S

What unit is sending you to pre-SCUBA?

TR

exsquid,

is that in a 50 meter, 25 meter, or 25 yards pool?
I found that the 50m is much easier in a 50 meter pool with equal depth all the way. Doing 50 meter in a 25 yards pool with increasing depth from 5ft to 12 ft is still a no go for me so far. Sitting relaxed I can hold my breath for 3:63. Perhaps it's a mental block and I need to gut it out some more, even though hugging the bottom = longer distance in a pool with uneven depth.

If you can hold your breath for that time, I'd suggest your problem is mostly in your mind. Train your mind. Take a small weight with you on a swim. Swim as far as you can. Place the weight there. Next time - "do or die" - swim past the weight. Move the weight to the new spot. Repeat as needed.

Please explain how long 3:63 is?

TR

that was poor writing on my part.
Copying exactly what's on the stopwatch:
03:06:63 or 3 minutes, 6.63 seconds

Edited to add: adidasboy1186 , you may laugh at this, but I also did Tai Chi and vocal training (classical conservatory, not pop or rap). I'd make a wild guess and say that they probably help. The breathing techniques from Tai Chi does help with both forced and natural respiratory pause in marksmanship.

Hyperventilate to purge and* fully inflate your lung volume capacity before submerging - stay on the bottom of the pool = less energy used and helps with focus as you swim - gradually returning towards the surface as you finish helps psychologically - small exhale through nostrils when the urge to inhale is nearly overwhelming helps - practice, practice, practice.

If you wanna swim like Flipper, ya gotta stay in the water. ;)

Good luck!

Richard's $.02 :munchin

* Latest thinking is to not do this.

With all due respect Richard, hyperventilating prior to doing underwater swims is extremely dangerous and has not been taught for quite some time due to the increased chance of shallow water blackout. Hyperventilating causes an artificially lowered CO2 level and it is the CO2 receiptors that tells the body it is time to breath. That's why those little exhalation decrease the desire to breath.

x/S

I never experienced the effects described but thanks for the latest thinking on this - guess I'm dating myself. ;)

Richard

Hyperventilating.....
 

I think Richard would have been more correct by saying three or four long slow deep breaths rather than using 'hyperventilating".

The start of the deep breathing is the start of the "relaxing". Calm slow and away we go.

Fast breathing leads to shallow breathing leads to excitement leads to surfacing very shortly - short of your goal.

Relax - pool time is easy time. All you have to do is float around.

For me at the SFUWO course once PT was done the day was over. All a down hill slide after PT.

Thanks, Pete - you're correct - and I wasn't referring to the panting type of breathing most people imagine when they think of hyperventilation.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Im with 2-29 INF at fort benning. My SF recruiter was nice enough to help me go to pre-scuba through his connections down at the 4th RTB dive locker. My unit just let me go.

You are very fortunate.

TR

Tell me that again....
 

Tell me that again about Thursday of week one on your second try.:D

I would love to go back and cant wait. Hopefully if time permits I'll go back before I PCS.

consider yourself fortunate that SFC H**** is an instructor. He's good people. He's twice your age, but you'll quit before he does at PT. I can out swim him, but he out runs me . Does he still have the 60's era Chrysler?

Be glad you're in Ft Benning and attempting this. It's a little more tricky at 6000 ft above sea level. :D

Treading water: learn the egg beater kick. watch a water polo match for a good demonstration. Having been an avid swimmer and played water polo in high school, the techniques helped immensely.

you have to be comfortable in the water (not just in the pool, but in open water with a limited wave action).

Practice your knot tying at home blindfolded and holding your breath.

ditch and don: practice at home on living room floor blindfolded and holding your breath.

do your normal unit pt in the morning.. swim in the afternoons to include the exercises (some of these require adult supervision).

50m swim. less movement is better. kick, glide, pull, glide (repeat as needed). 25m pool is better, you can push off the wall and get a good glide before you need to use your legs or arms.

mods, please delete if redundant

adidasboy1186,
just in case you're working at this as well. Here are some resources:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR5S04vYe2I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXk-ZRlHBPk

Personally, it took me 3 months to learn it. The QP I worked with at the pool couldn't pull it off after two sessions, although he maintained the perfect form for 4 to 6 seconds. I would start sitting on a bench or in a flutter kick position, then do the perfect form over and over and over, then sit by the poolside, both feet immersed to knee level, then do it until it feels second nature, then in the pool holding to a kickboard or lane divider, then with the help of hands, then with both hands above the head, and finally with hands holding 10lbs weight over the head. HTH

50 Meter underwater swim
 

From an FOG W7, is a 50 meter Underwater swim now a requirement to pass the SF Dive School?

Was not, back in the day.

It's a requirement to get in.

It wasn't when I was a student (93) but it was when I came back as an instructor (97), so I had to do the damn thing anyway. Turned out to be surprisingly easy once you got your head into it.

My team in Germany all did it before we ran a pre-scuba where we had to make the students do it. It took us all 3-4 tries before getting it, except this one guy - pot-bellied, smoked, shitty runner.... but BOY could he hold his breath & was comfortable in the water...

Stras, you don't remember that guy's name by any chance do you?

Who sets the Standards?
 

We did it too (1977-1980), but not as a requirement, just as a way to prove who was the best on the team. At Devens, every Wednesday morning, our SCUBA Team would do our PT at Bucker Pool (25meter). We always swam a 1000m swim, starting with a the first 25 meters underwater. Just naturally, we had guys who would make the turn and just keep swiming until they could not go any further.

Each time some one did that, it was just natural for the rest of us to try to "top it." Eventually, many of us were doing the 50 meter, but not all of us.

I could do it, but not all the time - just depended on how movotivated I was at the time. Big problem with doing that, is we still had to swim 950 more meters - we needed something left to do that in a reasonable time.


I suppose this is how standards get developed - and set. All the same, I am glad that I didn't have to do it at the out-set - I may not have been able to do it?

Completing SCUBA school reinforces the your confidence and enhances your skills on a continuing basis. The day you graduate from that class, is the day you start to get better, and better.

Would that be before or after I was accused of breathing through my feet on the breath holding event.....?????:eek:

3 guys on my team finished in the top 4 slots... It's not every day that you can use your Team Leader as a swim buoy....:D

pre scuba
 

Did dude ever go back and make it? And will having passed Pre Scuba prior to going to selection or "Q" ensure you get on a dive team?

No.

The only way onto a dive team, is by invitation.

Oh wow. Is it like a good ol' boy system, because no one ever leaves the dive team?

I left a dive team, when the time was right. I served well and left with the thanks of my team for doing a good job as the Sr Commo Sgt., with NCOER in hand.

There probably is a good 'ol boy network at some level, it typically works like this.

"Hey Sergeant Major, I heard there was a position at JRTC for NCOIC Range Control. Any chance I could put in for that?" "Sure", comes the reply, "Submit your application to CSM Ruthie, he'll make sure it gets to the right person. Be advised, several have already applied, all wonderful candidates, good luck."

"Thanks Sergeant Major".

-------------BT------------

At one time, I may well have been the very best commo sergeant the entire Army has ever seen, better than 99.6% of total armed forces in my career field, but when I joined SF, I was just another average everyday soldier who believed being in this regiment and amongst these, my brothers, was perfectly fine with me.

Rog, thanks.

Just as an aside...if you passed "pre-SCUBA" but did not attend CDQC, by the time you've finished the Q course, you'll have to attend pre-SCUBA again.

My favorite "lie" to tell the youngin's...don't worry, you only have to do this once.

The wise Irishman
 

A tourist in a Florida bar asks, "Why do SCUBA divers always fall backwards off their boats?"

To which the Irishman replies: "If they fell forward they'd still be in the fuckin' boat."

Dog- I believe the Irsh would pronounce that, "Fookin' boat".