Religion Within the Community
 

Hey all-

I have searched using the search button here on PS.com as well as ran some BOOLEAN searches through google (ex. site:professionalsoldiers.com jew AND military AND in) for this question but it has led to me starting a thread.

Religion has been discussed in these forums as it relates to conflict between warring nations but I have yet to see it being discussed on a local level within the SF community. There have been talks of the "sexually confused" to women's rights on the battlefield (wait, what rights.. the IDF did a great test study integrating women on the front lines and revealed what we all probably knew) but my question is still left unanswered. Enough with the verbosity (read: circumlocution) and here is my question.

Have you found that conflicting religious views within the community or ODA has interfered with your ability to work as a team? Has there even been much religious diversity? I ask this as I am in a minority religion, Judaism, and after talking with people's opinions in the military, it doesn't matter how great I am on paper, the fact remains that I am Jewish and they see that as a problem. When searching PS I learned of somebody named "Super Jew" who I could only assume to be Jewish but what have been your experiences. I was nominated to the USAFA but was forced to deny the nomination due to a very large Jewish conflict that occurred there and my father wouldn't let me go - on top of the fact that he hates the military and my desire to serve.

Sorry for the long post. I appreciate anybody's willingness to respond.

Best
Morgan

Almost 13 years in the Army and have personally never seen issues arise due to religion. Even when I was in the same fire team with another Catholic, a Jew, and a Muslim - no issues whatsoever.

Race issues, unfortunately I've seen. None with religion though.

I have never served in a unit as small or as tight as an ODA, so I cannot speak for team life. Hope this helped.

MoPro
 

If you wear anything on your sleeve you are going to get poked by your team mates. Anything.

Can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

Everybody I served with were SF Soldiers first, then their "whatever", be it religion, politics, etc. Works best if it is kept that way.

A number of us here worked with and/or knew "Super Jew", a great SF Soldier.

The only problem I have ever had with religion came from those not in the military that saw it as their perogative and calling to save us from ourselves. To a person they were self-serving, narrow-minded, idiots. And yes "SuperJew" was a great soldier and a good man. I have no idea with whom you are talking that thinks your being Jewish is a problem but it appears to me that they have the problem. As Pete stated, we are all SF soldiers first and everything else is relegated to second place.

Guys,

Some great SF nicknames on this thread were Super Jew, Buddha, and Little Jesus--which some of y'all may recall. However, there were no religious issues associated with any of them. I knew Christians who wore a Buddha or two or more as either decoration or...hmmm...the easy answer would be for local custom and acceptance. I only know of three instances of religious beliefs causing problems amongst us as a team:

-A young medic who was a devout Mormon going off on a bunch of animists being trained by a team and resulting in their having to be recalled from an MTT

-A CSM who got religion and kept a "secret" book in his desk drawer on the exploits of any of us who were less Christian in his eyes; some guys ran afoul of him and his f'in book

-An ODA XO who was a super-conservative Baptist and never melded with our team; I never saw the guy smile, either, and as the medic diagnosed him as having an incurable case of CORDS (cranial optic rectal diarrheal syndrome)--having his head lodged so firmly in his ass that it gave him a perpetually shitty outlook on life.

For the remainder of the guys I knew in SF, religion was a non-issue. Hell, how can you fault a guy's beliefs if he's an animist...or whatever...yet one of the kindest souls you'll ever meet and is willing to lay down his life for you?

Richard's .02$ :munchin

Thanks for the responses, guys. I completely agree that if one goes into a situation with a chip on their shoulder, the people around them will be more than willing to turn that seemingly minute chip into a substantial "block", so-to-speak. I was just curious due to the close-nit nature of an ODA. It's good to hear that our best are also our brightest - but then again, those generally go hand-in-hand. I appreciate the quick feedback; this definitely made a positive impact.

All the best and very respectfully,
Morgan

+1

Richard,

I like the CORDS diagnosis

I all my time in the military and on teams I have severed with people of all Religions, race and creeds. Never have we had a problem because you were a soldier First. We gave everyone hell and if you opened the door we would attack the soft underbelly and you would catch hell. We never meant anything bad that was just how we were.

Saw a few that talked about their religion but never made it an issue. We always respected someone beliefs. When the bullets start flying everyone starts believing in something and we were always a team.

When everyone is Grey or green all day you sort of begin to blend in and everyone are brothers.

This is my simple religion
 

Dwight D. Eisenhower once said, "Only our individual faith in freedom can keep us free". The fact that one has to define themselves based on what others think keeps you imprisoned. Not only on the subject of Religion but race as well. If I had listened to everything anyone ever told me, I could or could not do based on my faith or demographic, I would be no different than those who blame everyone for their ills. My first team consisted of a born in Germany Team Sergeant, awesome dude, and a team leader with a Yiddish last name, we all gave each other so much crap that we learned to live that way. It didn't fricken matter what our backgrounds were. My father is a Preacher, I have my own thoughts about God as do many others. We do not push our thoughts on to others. If the conversation arises, as sensible adults, whether atheist or not, we all point out what we think and do not try to change one another's views. If that is what defines you, by all means great, but as the great Theologian of SERE school once said, "Thank you for the opportunity to divide you all". Get over it!!! Religion, as well as prayer, is a private relationship or conversation between you and whoever you deity is or not. In combat no one cares what your religion is. I do care that whatever you do to get yourself right, doesn't happen in the middle of the fight.

One of the principles this country was founded upon was freedom of religion, any religion. This is one of the few countries that tolerate all religions and as such its military tolerates all religions. We as SF soldiers understand that principle quite clearly, except we understand it on a global basis.

That said we learn to understand and tolerate. I've known SF soldiers that have “hunted” werewolves on behalf of a very scared “people”. They did not laugh at the people but rather understood their fears and successfully alleviated them.

It’s all part of being situationally aware. This awareness is part of our training; it’s not just battlefield awareness but human awareness.

In all my years I've never heard of any religious issues concerning SF soldiers, none. That said, on an A-Team you’d get more grief for your choice of beer then your religious preference.

And while I didn’t personally know the "Super Jew" I did know the Mad Iranian….;)

Team Sergeant

TS et al,

The devout Mormon kid I mentioned was a young SF Medic and was immediately put out of group when his team returned from the MTT as NOBODY wanted him after that. Go figure. :D

The CSM went by the name of Preacher and eventually became the USAJFKCENMA CSM.

Richard

That would be Preacher H? Please tell me that there was not two of them:D

Interesting Richard, we had a junior medic in Thailand in 73 that decided that he did not like what we were doing nor could he tell a lie if captured. He was relegated to med room and driving the vehicle down town. While he was Mormon, we had another Mormon on that trip with no problems and I have had two other Mormons, that I know of on my team. Never had problems like that since then.

Super Jew was the first NCOIC of SOTIC and when he left in 85 for Taco Tech we gave him SGM stripes with a Star of David instead of the normal star as a going away gift. He wore the dam things at the SGM Academy dining out and caused a bit of a stir. :D

All of this said, the religion is not the problem, the individual is.

LOL - and that's the truth!

The one and only. He would overhear NCOs talking about the behavior of other NCOs at the NCO Club or the Rod and Gun or wherever and write down what he'd heard in his ledger which he kept in his desk...then he'd bring these things up later when he was on a rant about something or if you were on the carpet for something totally unconnected. Everybody steered clear of him and he had little clue of what we were really doing.

Richard

How many know how he, "Preacher", got his "religion"? :munchin :D

An acquaintance of mine from SOG for "Religion" on his dog tags had 'F-4 Phantom'...

Georg Scott, God rest his soul, was the most religious SF soldier that I ever met. He didn't wear it on his sleeve and try to proselytize but lived it through his actions.
Before we would infil on an FTX George would tell me, "Jim, I just talked to God and He said things were going to be all right." and everything did seemed to go like clockwork. Then when he didn't go with us to wherever, it was like a circus of maniacal clowns was following us around.
Other than Georg, a person's religion was something that was the last thing on anyones mind.

Like LBJ said to his Protestant constituency in the south to assuage their fears of voting for JFK, a Catholic, (paraphrased) "Nobody was asking him his religion when he was pulling your boys out of the Pacific."

But then again that is politics, the second oldest profession in the world and not much different than the oldest.

Or music...Dave Titsworth (RIP) was a classical music afficiando...he would play it pretty loud, if he made to his team room before the other guys...and would laugh like a hyena when the griped about his taste...

If you weren't a country music fan in Group, it was best to stay quiet...

If you were a Taoist, Scientologist, Wikkan, etc. maybe I'd agree that.

I had a radio operator at Ben Het that, on days we were not getting new bunkers dug by NVA rockets, would come up out of the commo room, stand on top of the TOC roof, spread his arms, look up into the heavens and shout, "Dad, thanks for another beautiful day". One day after he did that, he went back down into the commo room, sat his butt into his chair, started to hit the speed key when a short in the generator sent him careening across the commo room floor. I told him it was a lightning bolt:D

I used "TAC Air" on the religious preference line of my ID tags...until they made me replace it in OCS. I told them TAC Air always answered my prayers but they insisted it wasn't a recognized religious belief as listed in the regs. From then on I had "Christian."

Richard :munchin

LMMFAO!
 

I used to go out to country & western; bars/clubs all the time!:lifter

Stay safe.

I had Barbarian for years until the same complaint was made by a SGM, "not recognized religion". :D

My tags always said "no preference".

My second team sergeant had Druid on his.:D

Yes, you will take crap from your teammates over your religion, your age, your appearance, your physical abilities, your sexual preferences, and every other thing possible to try and annoy another person about, and you will do the same to them, because they are your brothers.

TR

Before getting out in Sept '70 after 2 RVN tours, I got to spend 6 months in 7th group.
I remember CSM Hodge and a few of his rants about the "Big Ranger in the sky." Heard a couple stories about his "conversion."
Wierdest experience was all the young highly trained troops all revved up with nowhere to go due to SF withdrawing from RVN.

There was a Medic, real smart guy, who was a devout Mormon.
He announced during a barracks bull session that he would never kill another human.

Name was Dyrood or similar. Wierdest thing I ever heard.

Mike- You are exactly right about being all revved up. I was one of those young guys ready to kill a Commie for Christ. I finally ended up w/ 46th Co for 2 years but that was the closest I got to Vietnam...

Chaplain jumps, best jumps ever because they had coffee and donuts on the DZ.

Before MACO, the Chaplain JM handed out St. Christopher medals to all that wanted one.

During MACO he misread the briefing board and said that jump altitude will be 125 feet (it should have been 1250).

A lone voice in the back asked, "Can I have another medal please?"

We laughed.....

Everybody's attitude is definitely something I fit along with; sounds just like my fraternity. This is definitely better than what it was like for me at Marine Military Academy in Harlingen TX during HS. Then again, I was one of 8 cadets there that wanted to be there vs the 400 or so that didn't (it was, after all, a military school), so I wouldn't say I was surrounded by the highest caliber of people.

I look forward to being a part of this community in a couple of years when I start my enlistment (I am finishing school now in DC - Sophomore)... and to get started I am doing the Extreme SEAL Experience (all three phases) in VA in a month :)

Thanks, everybody, for making me realize that an ODA is truly a group of intelligent warriors.

So you're planning on paying $1400 to be yelled at and miserable for several days, and then rushed through a "range" session and civilian skydiving? Have fun.

FWIW, you don't sound much like SF material to me. IMO, if they aren't paying you to make you miserable, you're either one of those guys PT Barnum said was born every minute and who doesn't know what to do with his hard earned money or what they're selling is slicker than owl shit and your taste buds ain't working. :D

Richard - been there, done that, and I ain't going anywhere or doing that again without max TDY! :munchin

More than once
 

More than once, many more times than once I've been in some totally stupid situation, think rain, muck, dark of night,swamp, cold, hot, etc - and turn to the SF guy next to me and said..

"And to think civilians pay money to do this shit."

I don't even want to remember how many times I was too hot...or too cold...or too wet...or tired...or too scared...or too bored...or my boots were too tight...or whatever. But I never paid anyone to do that to me...they paid me. And for the record--I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat!

Richard's $.02 :munchin

It's a going away gift somebody is giving me as I am studying abroad for 18 months. I had a choice of materials things or this experience, and I chose the experience. I will admit that there is a good 300-400 dollar premium you pay for these guys (from what I have experienced researching other places covering individual topics - ), but damn, what experience to go through for a civilian. At the end of the day, I'm not paying for it - the best way to buy something is with OPM... other peoples' money. :D

If you want to pay to get beat up and yelled at, go to Las Vegas, find a 6' tall redhead with freckles and a big chest and give her the money...It'll be a lot more fun...And if you are really lucky, you might see god...

Or you can try Pat Pong. :D

Richard :munchin

OK
 

...only if you pay for it :D