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PSM 07-10-2020 18:01

I don't see Trump losing without fraud. Massive fraud. Locally I'm hearing people who, while not Never-Tumpers, pe se, they didn't vote for him in '16. They are eager to vote for him this time. I went to the dental hygienist the other day. She never talks politics (and she's quite the talker!) but she said that she got in arguments with a couple of her anti-Trump clients for defending him.

The "everyone must vote by mail" movement is an effort to implement that "massive fraud" I fear. Voter fraud is, at best, attempted assignation and at worst and actual assignation of a candidate or office holder. How can it be seen as otherwise? The end result is exactly the same except there is no funeral. The criminal charge should be exactly the same, as well as the sentence.

Trapper John 07-11-2020 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Box (Post 660515)
RANT MODE ACTIVATED

Bill Nye the I'm not really a scientist guy needs to SHUT.THE.FUCK.UP. with his mask nonsense. Stick to engineering Bill - let Doctors teach everyone about medicine you silly fuck.

N95 masks DO NOT protect an uninfected public from an infected person that is wearing one. If you are healthy and wearing one to stay safe inpublic, you are doing it right...
...but you're an asshole because those should be left to the Health Care Industry so they can be used to protect the nurses and doctors from sick patients.

Standard Surgical masks do not protect an uninfected wearer from an infected public.
but if you are sick and wearing one to keep from spreading your pestilence, congratulations, you're doing it right...
...but you are also a fucking asshole for pulling a Fredo Cuomo and going out in public when you KNOW that you are sick.

Cloth masks made with all of the bullshit feel good fashion design don't really protect anyone from anything and more and more "professionals" are showing that a cloth mask most likely does more harm than good.
They are not enough to stop a virus..
They are just thick enough to retard the wearers ability to breath the way nature intended.
If you are wearing one - congratulations - you are an obedient subject that has proven your loyalty to the governing class.

Testing isn't a cure - and shouldn't drive the treatment. If you ain't sick - don't waste fucking resources on tests that aren't indicated. Many of the "experts" have already backpedaled to the point of stating that the early treatment habit of "they have COVID-19, ventilate, STAT" may very well have done more damage to patients than good. Every health care provider is taught not to treat lab results or machine readings...
TREAT.THE.FUCKING.PATIENT.

but here we are - uncle joe campaigning on a platform that corona testing saves lives and 'Bill Nye the I'm not really a scientist guy' teaching people that as long as you cant blow out a candle - your mask is saving lives.
fuck you Bill
fuck you and that stupid looking bow tie.
Fuck you right in your not really a scientist stupid looking bow tie wearing asshole.
fuck you too joe - you hair sniffing pervert

...the only thing that protects the masses from this type of shit is a vaccine or the age old natural process of herd immunity.
Of course we all know the liberal-Karen-soccer-mom demographic is afraid of vaccinations because Ace Ventura and Playboy's Miss October '93 both claim that vaccines will make your kids autistic.

Americans are driving me out of my ever loving mind with this blind hero worship and insistence that President Josiah Bartlett might actually have a viable strategy for a productive domestic economic policy.
Fuck you all very much - kiss my ass - thank you and good night.




RANT MODE DEACTIVATED

But, but whata 'bout Bill Gates? and of course there's Oh nooo! Mr Bill McRaven. I made my bed this morning, do I still need to wear a mask? And what is it with these Bills anyway? Maybe it's a Bill pandemic? Someone check on Bucki Bill please. :p

Trapper John 07-11-2020 10:56

3 States Account for 42 Percent of All COVID-19 Deaths in America. Why?
 
https://fee.org/articles/3-states-ac...GQDJbqGFhfI4Vk

In a recent article in The Atlantic, Thomas Chatterton Williams decried America’s handling of the coronavirus. The words “utter disaster” are used, and Williams, an expatriate, contrasts America’s response to that of France, where he currently lives.

“As Donald Trump’s America continues to shatter records for daily infections, France, like most other developed nations and even some undeveloped ones, seems to have beat back the virus,” Williams writes.

To be sure, the US response to the coronavirus was far from perfect (more on that later). But the article shows one of the challenges with this pandemic: even as more data is acquired, the picture doesn’t always get clearer.

In some ways, COVID-19 data are like a Rorschach blot from which writers, politicians, and experts can glean whatever conclusions they wish to find. Take Sweden, where daily COVID-19 deaths recently reached zero.

According to Newsweek editorial director Hank Gilman, Sweden’s “lighter touch” approach was a failure because seven times as many people died there than in neighboring Scandinavian countries such as Finland and Norway. He is not alone in the assessment.

On the other hand, Sweden suffered far fewer deaths per capita than several European neighbors that instituted strict lockdowns—including Belgium, Italy, Spain, and the United Kingdom—and has avoided some of the economic fallout other nations have endured. Unlike other countries, its currency is growing stronger.

Indeed, Sweden’s death rate is remarkably close to that of France, which Williams praised as a model in contrast to the “utter disaster” in the US. However, the US actually has a lower per capita death rate than both Sweden and France—at least for now. (While it’s true COVID cases are on the rise again in the US, deaths recently reached three-month lows.)

This raises questions about how we measure success in the age of COVID-19. While most attention is being paid to rising case numbers, death tolls would seem to be the most important metric. While US deaths per capita (401/1M) put the country among the ten highest in the world—ahead of France and Sweden, but just below the Netherlands—those numbers also don’t tell the entire story.

In his 1974 Nobel Prize speech, the economist F.A. Hayek warned against the temptation to use collective action with incomplete knowledge, saying such action would likely cause more harm than good.

“To act on the belief that we possess the knowledge and the power which enable us to shape the processes of society entirely to our liking, knowledge which in fact we do not possess, is likely to make us do much harm,” Hayek stated.
We don’t yet know how this pandemic or economic collapse will end, but some have predicted it shaping up to be a blunder of historic proportions.

“The first half of 2020 will go down in history as the largest nationwide public policy failure since the Great Depression,” the economic historian Phil Magness recently observed. “A part of that failure derives from the largest wide-scale suppression of economic and social liberties in most of our lifetimes, all executed to negligible effect at solving the problem it intended to target.”

If Magness is correct, the crisis, though tragic, may also offer a healthy dose of an elixir Hayek would say humans desperately need: humility [Excluding, of course, the 3 Bills]. :D

“The recognition of the insuperable limits to his knowledge ought indeed to teach the student of society a lesson of humility which should guard him against becoming an accomplice in men’s fatal striving to control society,” Hayek concluded in his address.

The lockdowns and the nursing home tragedies show just how destructive and fatal such striving to control society can be.

Last hard class 07-11-2020 11:38

More good news on the treatment front:


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKCN24C0K8



"The randomized control trial indicated that all the patients treated with Itolizumab responded positively and recovered."




LHC

Old Dog New Trick 07-11-2020 14:16

This an interesting article only in that all the graphs intersect at the same point.

https://apple.news/AKChizU6SQB2WH2pF1tqhHQ

They all show the point where those infected people from New York/New Jersey went to the states who had remained flat during the initial spread of the virus.

The only graph that doesn’t follow what happened in New York/New Jersey and Washington state is the death rate is significantly lower do mostly in part that LTC facilities are better protected, a younger population was exposed and treatments are better known.

If I believed in conspiracies (which I usually don’t) and since these new infections are (supposedly) long after “Spring Break” parties ended and everyone went home without widespread infections, schools were closed and businesses shuttered nearly completely; and coincide with publicized relaxing of “Stay-At-Home” orders...one might lead credibility to theories that those escaping New York/New Jersey have purposely spread the virus far and wide against Republican states. Again, I just don’t believe in conspiracies that Democrats would stoop so low as to send sick volunteers out into the free world to drink in pubs, river raft in rivers, and find other social settings where younger people naturally congregate after being cooped up for eight weeks. You know like a beach!

Anyone that could believe or imagine something like that would have to believe the government made George Floyd, a violent life long criminal, in the commission of a crime, inject himself with high doses of Fentanyl and then tell the arresting police he was not under any circumstances getting in that police vehicle, and chaos would follow to the extent that it has. That’s all just wishful thinking, that these things are unrelated.

The good news (not reported by CNN and other MSM) is the US is testing nearly 700,000 people a day and while high the reported positive cases are less than 70,000 per day. At this rate that’s only 10% of the population and 90% are negative. It should also be noted that only people with symptoms or have been in long term or repeated contact with a known infected person are supported to be getting tested.

As always JMHO-YM(ask)MD

Old Dog New Trick 07-12-2020 10:33

1 Attachment(s)
Follow up to purchase of pulse oximeters. Been using the ZacUrate Pro500 series the last few days while flying to and from work with face coverings. On the ground before boarding and after wearing either a neck gator or surgical mask for a period of time longer than 20-minutes my average SpO2 is 97% (without a mask in the comfort of my home I’m usually at 98% SpO2. Funny but my wife is about 99% and my son 100%.) So, back to my non-scientific study...in an commercial airplane at altitude for an hour or more my SpO2 is dropping to an average of 92%. I’ve hit as low as 88% with the neck gator and a low high of 93% with a surgical mask. Those readings stay fairly consistent until descending below 15,000’ where atmospheric O2 is being pumped back into the airplane, at which time my SpO2 is rising back to 95% on average. After landing and removing the mask for 10-minutes or so I’m back to 97%-98% again. So there is definitely a deficiency which over long periods of time is likely harmful. I’d really like to do ABGs in flight to see what the CO2 levels are but that’s not likely to happen in my environment.

Anyway, the other model I bought was slightly more expensive at $34 with a five star rating but seems to be no better or worse than the $29 Model with 4.5 stars.

Zacurate Pro Series 500DL... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PQ8WTC4...p_mob_ap_share

Santamedical Generation 2... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ORVXPA...p_mob_ap_share

With what I’ve heard from medical experts in the field, hypoxia (SpO2 <90% for a healthy person) is the silent devil sneaking up on you before your body starts to have rapidly deteriorating problems requiring hospitalization and O2 therapy.

For less than $35 this gadget is probably a life saver during this pandemic of respiratory failure.

frostfire 07-12-2020 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick (Post 660580)
Follow up to purchase of pulse oximeters. Been using the ZacUrate Pro500 series the last few days while flying to and from work with face coverings. On the ground before boarding and after wearing either a neck gator or surgical mask for a period of time longer than 20-minutes my average SpO2 is 97% (without a mask in the comfort of my home I’m usually at 98% SpO2. Funny but my wife is about 99% and my son 100%.) So, back to my non-scientific study...in an commercial airplane at altitude for an hour or more my SpO2 is dropping to an average of 92%. I’ve hit as low as 88% with the neck gator and a low high of 93% with a surgical mask. Those readings stay fairly consistent until descending below 15,000’ where atmospheric O2 is being pumped back into the airplane, at which time my SpO2 is rising back to 95% on average. After landing and removing the mask for 10-minutes or so I’m back to 97%-98% again. So there is definitely a deficiency which over long periods of time is likely harmful. I’d really like to do ABGs in flight to see what the CO2 levels are but that’s not likely to happen in my environment.

Anyway, the other model I bought was slightly more expensive at $34 with a five star rating but seems to be no better or worse than the $29 Model with 4.5 stars.

Zacurate Pro Series 500DL... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PQ8WTC4...p_mob_ap_share

Santamedical Generation 2... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ORVXPA...p_mob_ap_share

With what I’ve heard from medical experts in the field, hypoxia (SpO2 <90% for a healthy person) is the silent devil sneaking up on you before your body starts to have rapidly deteriorating problems requiring hospitalization and O2 therapy.

For less than $35 this gadget is probably a life saver during this pandemic of respiratory failure.

Definitely won’t hurt to have them.
I had used them as reassurance tool for the healthy

Imhoo to hit under 90% with no respiratory symptoms whatsoever is unlikely.
For those who test positive at the mission, we do issue a pulse ox. They enter daily reading of o2 sat, temp, and symptoms. For some reason, the most common symptoms here are loss of taste and extreme fatigue. Two patient never had fever the entire time

cbtengr 07-12-2020 14:25

Social Distancing
 
Had breakfast this morning a bit North of Madison Wisconsin. It was not a huge eating joint sat maybe 75 diners at once. At least a third of the tables had signs on them that stated they were not to be used due to the virus. We were immediately set in a booth back to back with other diners and as folks came in the hostess would remove the do not sit here sign and seat them. It did not bother us in the least to be that near other diners. It is all about what one is comfortable with as far as we are concerned.

SF_BHT 07-12-2020 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbtengr (Post 660585)
Had breakfast this morning a bit North of Madison Wisconsin. It was not a huge eating joint sat maybe 75 diners at once. At least a third of the tables had signs on them that stated they were not to be used due to the virus. We were immediately set in a booth back to back with other diners and as folks came in the hostess would remove the do not sit here sign and seat them. It did not bother us in the least to be that near other diners. It is all about what one is comfortable with as far as we are concerned.

Saturday morning at 0615 I played grocery tag. There were probably only 20 people there and this one lady who had her mask hanging from her ear when you got on the isle with her she would look scared and turn and scurry in the other direction. Happened 5 or 6 times. It was funny. When it was time for checkout (self check only) she pot her mask on. I checked out beside her and she could not scan fast enough. It was comical. I told her if you slow down you will get out of here faster. She would not say a word. Some people are just scared of their own shadows.

tonyz 07-13-2020 06:39

Interesting development.

Complete article at link below.

EXCLUSIVE: Chinese virologist accuses Beijing of coronavirus cover-up, flees Hong Kong: 'I know how they treat whistleblowers'

Fox News
By Barnini Chakraborty, Alex Diaz | Fox News

Li-Meng Yan told Fox News that she believes China knew about the coronavirus well before it claimed it did. She says her supervisors also ignored research she was doing that she believes could have saved lives.

EXCLUSIVE: Hong Kong scientist Dr. Li-Meng Yan was stepping into uncharted territory.

Hours before she boarded an April 28 Cathay Pacific flight to the United States, the respected doctor who specialized in virology and immunology at the Hong Kong School of Public Health had plotted her escape, packing her bag and sneaking past the censors and video cameras on campus.

She had her passport and her purse and was about to leave all of her loved ones behind. If she was caught, she knew she could be thrown in jail -- or, worse, rendered one of the "disappeared."

Yan told Fox News in an exclusive interview that she believes the Chinese government knew about the novel coronavirus well before it claimed it did. She says her supervisors, renowned as some of the top experts in the field, also ignored research she was doing at the onset of the pandemic that she believes could have saved lives.

She adds that they likely had an obligation to tell the world, given their status as a World Health Organization reference laboratory specializing in influenza viruses and pandemics, especially as the virus began spreading in the early days of 2020.

Yan, now in hiding, claims the government in the country where she was born is trying to shred her reputation and accuses government goons of choreographing a cyber-attack against her in hopes of keeping her quiet.

Yan believes her life is in danger. She fears she can never go back to her home and lives with the hard truth that she’ll likely never see her friends or family there again.

Still, she says, the risk is worth it.

"The reason I came to the U.S. is because I deliver the message of the truth of COVID," she told Fox News from an undisclosed location.

She added that if she tried to tell her story in China, she "will be disappeared and killed."

<snip>

https://www.foxnews.com/world/chines...-whistleblower

tom kelly 07-13-2020 09:04

The Wuhan Virus:
 
Well the "VIRUS" is here, there , and everywhere until herd immunity or a viable vaccine is developed and distributed to the world for injecting the population. THIS WAS A PREEMPTIVE STRIKE BY THE CCP. Now we now who & where the "Bad Guys" are & it's time to stop the BS Lying about what happened. WE ARE AT WAR. The Third Column in the U S A must be delt with first, The New World Order & The Deep State Swamp Dwellers around the DC Beltway and ALL THE DNC MEMBERS worldwide. The Grass Roots Right need to PURGE the enemies of the U S A and we need to do it NOW.

Airbornelawyer 07-13-2020 10:44

More on the subject of non-Covid deaths:

https://www.studyfinds.org/u-s-death...d-by-covid-19/

Quote:

“A third possibility, the one we’re quite concerned about, is indirect mortality — deaths caused by the response to the pandemic,” explains Woolf, the director emeritus of VCU’s Center on Society and Health. “People who never had the virus may have died from other causes because of the spillover effects of the pandemic, such as delayed medical care, economic hardship or emotional distress.”

Old Dog New Trick 07-13-2020 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer (Post 660616)
More on the subject of non-Covid deaths:

https://www.studyfinds.org/u-s-death...d-by-covid-19/

Well, DUH!

A million children worldwide may starve to death because food chains are broken.

GratefulCitizen 07-13-2020 15:30

This information raises some questions.
I'm not educated enough to answer them.

One question I'd like answered:
Why is this information being ignored?

https://adamaltmejd.se/covid/

Airbornelawyer 07-14-2020 09:56

1 Attachment(s)
What exactly is the information you are questioning? It looks like a straightforward illustration of Farr's Law. The epidemic in Sweden essentially has come and gone. People may still be getting infected, as with any flu, but those most vulnerable have essentially already died.

I wish I could find a chart like this for the US as a whole or any state, but I can't. The CDC seemingly no longer reports the weekly deaths from all causes with year-over-year comparisons. Anyway, here is one for France comparing daily deaths in 2018, 2019 and 2020 from 1 March to 15 June. It shows the spike as the epidemic swept through the country, peaking at the end of March. It also shows that since the end of April, deaths are back to normal. Indeed, in some parts of France deaths are below normal, which supports the notion that Covid-19 brought forward many deaths, killing people in March and April who likely would have died in May or June or later this year from their other co-morbidities.

France was hit before the US, so it is further along the epidemic curve. I suspect if we could get reliable data from the US states hit first, notably New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, we might see a similar pattern. There is a chart here for New Jersey from 2015-2020, but is only through May 2020.


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