What you have is 40mg of Hydrocodone and 4000 mg of acetaminophen. A couple of days worth. I would not have halved them, it makes them break down/age out easier and some of the narcotics have the active ingredient in a tiny pellet form to prevent abuse.

I agree, the stocking is more compact, and reusable after washing, but the t-shirt could be charred and used as tinder. Your call. What you might do is to scoop up some known dirty water like a bird bath or stagnant pond and filter it through your different media into a clean glass to check for particulates. If you don't see any, let it sit for a few days and see what settles out.

TR

Actually your first priority should be to access your current situation, especially if you are in hostile territory. Enemy, weather, terrain and your personal condition (as well as those for whom you might be responsible) are going to dictate your priorities of work.

How about a sling shot for small game. Before I had a BB gun a sling shot was my best freind. They dont take up alot of space and ammo is usually plentiful.

As far as making a bow, try reading the "Traditional Bowyers Bible" seris. Great Info.

How would one of the permentant coffee filters be for sediments?

As a technical nugget the freezing point of Isobutane is -229F at atmospheric pressure.

Like has been said - first priority is to assess the situation. First thing in my assessment would be to determine if I could get out of the situation without having to "survive". If I've got comms, why sit in the mountains waiting for someone to realize I am not where I should be? So, I always carry a cellphone and keep it off unless it is an emergency. It doesn't weigh much and if I am lucky enough to get a signal - good for me. If I've got a map, time, and ability (energy and medically able), why sit there? If there are other (friendly) people around, why not ask for some help? There is a difference between surviving and living IMO.

I've used the magnesium starter in a blizzard in the mountains of Harriman State Park in NY because the metal on my lighters kept freezing. I put them under my arm pits to keep the warm, but that gets you cold ;) The magnesium starter is a pain in the ass too. I don't know why, but my buddy had a flare with him and we used that to start a fire :lifter

I start my survival gear prep at my skin. If it is going to be cold outside, I bring clothes that will keep me warm. If it is going to be hot, I bring clothes that will keep me cool. I always try to fit a change in there too. Whether it is hot or cold, being wet sucks. Cotton or wool or synthetic is another question I ask myself.

I pack for the occasion, but there are some things similar in all situations - water, food, and shelter. Always pack enough water for whatever I plan on doing and an emergency supply for what might come up. If I plan on being up there for a decent amount of time and there might be a source of water, I bring a water purifier. I usually bring iodine and salt for those true emergencies. Otherwise, there are many other ways to get water other than from standard sources. Food - depends a lot on what I am doing. If I am all out of MREs (or canned food, steaks, hot dogs, ramen, and beer) there is not much I can do other than hunt or gather. I have started to bring the Survival FM on camping trips so I can see for myself what the pictures are showing in a "safer" environment. Most basic items shelter are the ponchos and rain gear.

I didn't go over those little things, but you don't have to survive on what you have in your pocket. You might be surviving on your ruck. If I am going to have to survive, I want as much as I can. My "oh shit, my ruck is gone" survival kit is packed in a Camelbak with 2 pockets. It has a first aid kit put in to a 5.56 mag pouch with a black cross on it so others know what it is. I put a poncho or other rain gear on the outside. Water inside. There are at least 3 fire starting elements in there - lighter, waterproof matches, and magnesium fire starter with a little swiss army knife attached. I put some cotton balls covered in petroleum jelly in a prescription bottle in there. I have a daisy chained length of 550 cord (I'd say about 50'). If I am not wearing it, I put a Tikka XP headlamp in there. Also a surefire 6P or a mini-mag (no filters on either of those). I have a couple of folding knives I put in there, but they change depending on what I feel like pulling out at the time. I also put something(s) reflective in there like a reflective belt and/or a mirror. Reflective belt is really smart when you are walking around in the dark on a ruck and you are looking for your buddies. I put a pen and a notebook in there. I also put communication equipment in there (cellphone or handheld 2-way). Depending on the climate, depends on the type of gloves but I can't remember ever not having gloves in there. That is all off the top of my head from what I usually use. It changes depending on where I am going and what I am doing, but I think I got the basics.

My understanding was that there was no enemy presence, and that I was on my own. Also that I would not move for at least 60 days. Similar to Troop Leading Procedures, Assessing the situation is a second nature thing that comes naturally with my level experience. IT has to be done in order to create a plan to get to your priorities of work. Furthermore I would continue to assess the situation until I was out of the situation. Under the current conditions laid out in the first post, you need to remain for 60 days, regardless of conditions of weather and yourself you have to accomplish certain things IOT survive. Finding water, starting fire, and building shelter IMHO have to be done at a minimum. Regardless of personal, or weather conditions. Otherwise you might not survive. With the conditions being, moderate in the day 70's as low as 40's at night I think those three in that order would be prudent.
If in a combat senario the whole ball game changes.

Never used it except in fair conditions. Point taken. A lighter would probably be more prudent. I should probably add one to my kit. However as a Murpheys Law contingency I believe a flint, striker and magnesium block could be carried as well, they could start a fire in a pinch and don't take up much space also they weigh next to nothing.
Better to have and not need....;).

Cobra 22

Just a quick comment here.

Every guy posting with Quiet Professional under his name has been through a survival course of several days in a remote area with very few resources, like a knife, a book of paper matches, a few feet of 550 cord, a chicken or rabbit (to keep students from trapping and consuming domestic animals) and his canteen with cup, or in a real world situation with a lot more drama.

Asking questions is fine.

I would be very hesitant to dispense advice without comparable experience, which I only see in a few cases here. Anyone who is a SERE Instructor or survival expert who is not a QP, send me your creds.

As far as the slingshot goes, that would be fine, if it is small, lightweight, and if you are accurate with it.

I would consider a few feet of tubing for drinking from ground sources without disturbing it, or from a solar still without taking it apart, so if you could just carry the surgical tubing and make your own slingshot in the woods.

For firestarting, I have used a lot of techniques. Just as a control measure, I turned my kids, 9 and 12 years old, loose on a pile of pine needle tinder yesterday with one of the Firesteel manmade flint strikers. They caught on to the striking technique very quickly, making big showers of sparks, and I let them try to light the tinder. I had to add some shreded paper napkin to the mix before the youngest could get it started, total time, about four minutes and a couple of dozen strikes. Curiously enough, I also had to add some hand sanitizer before the older one could get one started. She took well over ten minutes and a hundred strikes. I actually stopped her twice and struck fires myself just to make sure that everything was okay. It took me a half dozen strikes or so. When I gave them a butane lighter, both could produce significant blazes almost immediately, with their first attempts.

Yes the flint or firesteel technique will work eventually, when it is cold or wet, if your hands know what they are doing. An actual flame beats a spark, even a good one, almost every time. I believe that for the weight of a flint, striker, and magnesium block, you could carry several lighters, which if kept in a pocket or on a necklace, will be much easier to use, as well as cheaper and requiring less training.

Next time you think about it, take your flint, steel, and magnesium out, and try to light a fire with it using just one hand. Now try it with your weak hand alone. How will you do it if one hand is injured? With a lighter, it is still simple.

Remember KISS.

TR

Point taken Sir, it would be extremely obtuse of me to try to give survival advice to a QP. I was in no way trying to do that. I was just trying to explain why I chose the COA that I did and my logic for that COA. I apologize for not being more clear. On another note I did try the flint in my backyard with some pine needles, and then shredded paper. The flint by itself did not produce very good results, the flint with magnesium however did alot better. I produced fire in approx ten minutes with paper and then with pine needles. I haven't tried but doing it one handed would be very difficult. Looking at the facts I would have to say flint and magnesium out, BIC in. Good tips all.

Cobra 22

I had an epiphiny today while brazing up some lines. How about the torch striker. Small, light weight, only needs one hand, and reusable. Put your tender into the "Cup" and strart squeezing the handle to produce sparks. I have not tried it yet and I am sure it is no match against the BICs but for the person who must have a magnesium starter maybe this would be a better alternative.

Here is a pic
Attachment 8048

Not magnesium, excessively large and bulky, and I suspect that the striking action will empty the cup before ignition is achieved. Might work if nothing else were around, especially if you have the oxygen and acetylene handy.

The small survival kits will fit in an Altoids tin. You can put 3 or 4 BIC lighters in that space, along with tinder, and if kept lukewarm and dry, they will start a fire quickly and effortlessly, with one hand every time.

TR

Don't get it do you.

I'm not going to get into the thermodynamics and how it relates to vapor pressure and isobutane, butane does not work well in extremely cold weather.

Team Sergeant

No disrespect intended sir. Just want let you know what the freezing point of Isobutane was. I did not intend to be a smart ass or come across as one.

Again no disrepect sir, I do understand thermodynamics.

No disagreement there.

As to my previous post about the torch striker. It should have been phrased as a question rather than a statement. I do not know if it would work or not, I have never tried it. Just thinking out loud.

Now back to reading more and posting less.

What I have been doing is using an Air Force RSSK for a survival pack. I start out with the "Cold Weather RSSK" then add or/ delete items as neccessary for Spring, Summer, or Fall. A little weighty but it has what I think to be very complete. These RSSK's were meant for more than 3 days whereas the vest (SRU-21P) was for less than 3 days usage. This is why when a pilot ejects out of his aircraft he will have both the RSSK and his vest on him. Thi vest and the RSSK has allot redundecy built in.

No my only question is this: Does anybody have any real-life experience with the "Mil-Spec" fishing kit? If so, what needs to be added or deleted?

One of the most important peice of kit is your witts or brain . Humans have the ability to think and reason. Hard to do when scared . Best thing to do is take a deep breath and calm down . Take stock of your situation and your suroundings. Since it is not a cold envirment I would like to find a nice spot for a shelter perferably around a water source. Make your lean to shelter just in case it does rain . Have a fire . A fire provides warmth, protection and a mental plus . Your not going to starve to death right away but will not last long without water. So water takes prioirity over food .

Some items of kit I wish to have for basic survival .
- a good fixed blade knife and sheath
- fire making products sush as mag fire stick, fire starrters,etc.
- para cord
- wire saw for cutting or for snare
- a good compass
- fishing line or dental flause
- condom
- pen light
- proper clothing/footwear
- garbage bag
- survival/medical kit

I agree.

Take a deep breath and calm down.

And use the spell-checker.

Then tell me why someone who lists no military service is so busy posting on an SF board?

TR

Thanks for the reminder of my poor spelling & typing skills.

Also, where does it say no military skills? I recall adding I was involved with the militia at some point. Perhaps you are not familiar with things up here. Where I am from, militia is part of the armed forces. We have different terms up here. I am not in the same league as many but am here to show my respect for Nato troops and to hopefully learn some cold weather tips.

Check your own Profile here!! It's a bit SLIM!!!

Do you really realize, with whom you are conversing?!?!?!

Take care.
Martin

Not sure if its been posted earlier, it didn't show up on a search.

The Discovery channel here is currently running a series at the moment called survivorman. Seems like a more realistic version of the Bear Grylls show. Definately worth a look if your into survival shows and the like.

The guy basicly gets dropped off in the middle of nowhere alone and attempt to survive there for a week with the items one might normally carry with them every day.

Link below contains streams for the two first shows.
http://www.squidoo.com/survivorman/#module2214127

I will give up that this guy has some skills; however, some of the things I've seen him do on TV may cost someone if they try to emulate him. A few examples stand out: One where he eats a wild mushroom believing that he's GTG. The other is where he's snuggling under a rock for the night in very cold weather. He had his backpack with him, which he never inventoried before spending the first night. The next morning, he finds some useful items for the cold. The last I'll bring up is his leaving the shore to get lost, sick and dehydrated in a jungle. He then struggles to get back out to where he was in the first place.

Grant it, not all of this is the end of the world (except maybe the mushrooms), but not the example I would want to set for a novice in the field. I will give him credit for actually being by himself and making it out alive.

Just my .02, and it does have some entertainment value (otherwise I sure wouldn't be able to go on like this).

Real survival experts!
 

I just got through reading the pages above, great stuff! For a really good place to
learn about this stuff. May I point to 'HOODs WOODs" at www.survival.com.
Ron and Karen Hood make some great videos/dvds about SURVIVAL.


walter

Answer to the first Question
 

To my Understanding no one was able to really answer your senario. You only have clothes on back and boots.
60 days is your goal, but may not happen, so long stay survial is secondary plan or to Pack out yourself after 60 days. My first priority is to search area for any useful items. Water of unknown potabilty already Id.
1.stone for knives/axe (flint knapping/stone chipping)
2.DryShelter/fire making materials.(FireSaw/bow/tinder)

Assuming no trash is about for boil/storage of water.

3.near water source dig a hole (you can line the hole with stones, and let it fell with water.
4.place stones in your fire for at least 2 hours place stones in the water, until extremly hot drink prompley.
one can add to this pine needles,moss,willow bark,catail root ,grass root, fern bulbs,and bugs. etc. for benefit.
also id any food source the water has fish,bugs ,etc.

5.Keep busy devising traps.snare line made from fresh crushed saplings, strip bark,bear grass,catail reed(also good for baskets) finding animal trails .
6. Scouting and mapping the area in the dirt or any other means moving slightl further out every time marking food/water sources, mineral deposits,fire/shelter materials

assuming rescue is priority setting up a large signal fire with fresh green around for white smoke. and maintaining a fire near signal as to light when needed.important.

7. Have fun foraging, checking traps,Basket/line weaving and always looking for more to further comfort and survival.

P.s If you find mineral deposit s of ore (copper/tin/iron/magnitite/limestone/ try your hand at forging using wet wood and stone.

i have just discovered this site and i am over joyed at the knowledge base I now have access to thank you very much for every thing you are contributing. it will save lives.

With respect ,
A No.1

A#1, did you get a registration message?

Have you complied with the requirements yet?

I don't think so.

Do not offer further advice till you have followed instructions, and read the entire thread. Like my post at the top of page 12 of this thread.:rolleyes:

Understand that as SF soldiers who have had extensive survival training and experience in the real world, we are somewhat reluctant to take advice from someone who is still under 20 years of age and who we know nothing about.

TR

Here a good website I found: http://wildwoodsurvival.com/

Most of it is "old school" stuff coming from native american traditions i.e. what are the best plants to make cordage from, how to make snares and traps, field expedient shelters, how to make stone tools, etc.

S.U.R.V.I.V.A.L.
 

I know TR posted a note of caution for those posting that aren't SERE instructors or QPs but I feel confident in this posting (...have to acknowledge protocol).

In all 13 pages of this thread, I haven't seen anybody post on the fact that the word survival is, in-itself, an acronym. I was a camp counselor at Aviation Challenge in Huntsville and we even taught the campers this. I also taught survival when I was a Flight Commander in CAP (I know, I know... nothing like SERE or QP training but training none-the-less). We taught two very important accronyms: SURVIVAL and COLDER.

Tools are only 5% of surviving a survival situation. The breakdown is 80% is your will to live, 15% is your knowledge of survival craft, and only 5% is your equipment. Nature will be your friend or foe, it does not care if you live or die. If you respect nature and use it positively to your advantage, it will aide you in your survival. If you do not, it will carry you to its death.

SURVIVAL:
Size up the situation
Undue haste makes waste
Remember where you are
Vanquish fear and panic
Improvise
Value living
Act like the natives
Learn basic skills

Just google colder accronym and find it as I know it is used by the army.

I hope I haven't intruded.

QPs
 

MoPro;

Most QPs don't google SURVIVAL info from the internet. Most have some version of the US Armed Forces Survival Manual on hand. Mine is 1980.

Chapter One The Psychology of Survival

The will to survive -- Where the mind leads.... -- Preparation -- Panic and Fear -- S-U-R-V-I-V-A-L -- Loneliness and Boredom -- Survive in Groups.

Pete

I am sure you are not referring to the fact that this appears in FM 21-76, March 1969, page 10. But of course, had anyone posted this, they would have probably given credit to the source. This is just one of many acronyms and none are the Rossetta Stone for survival as each have their strengths and weaknesses for application. As far as your assignment of percentages in surviving a "survival situation" there are no such things as absolutes and percentages are absolutes. 80% will to live will not do you too much good after you run out of water, have bled out, or jake-no-shoulders has kissed you for a second time on your 4th point of contact. All aspects are important and must be applied in accordance with the situation in which you find yourself-there is no magic formula against which percentages can be applied.

You might want to look up situational awareness and figure out how it applies here.

As in SF, being the gray man is not a bad idea on PS.com.

People who draw attention to themselves in a non-permissive environment, especially when they are not one of the natives, do not tend to survive very long.

TR

First off, I have the utmost respect for all QPs here and I did not intent to offend or insult anybody.

I apologize if anyone felt ill-intent, but I was posting for those who had questions about basics of survival. I was not posting for those who have been to SERE or undergone any form of training as what I posted here are the very basics; it was just a starting block for those who are new to the topic/Assets. I prefaced my post by saying that I am not a professional nor am I trying to be one; I posted just add an extra piece of information. By stating that S.U.R.V.I.V.A.L. was not posted in prior posts was not as a "gotcha" but rather as an additional piece of information that I thought was a basic teaching that I find valuable. (I apologize for not stating the source, as I learned it during a lecture from a teacher didn't mention where he got it from). Again, my post was not directed at those who have had much/if any experience.

And TR, I apologize if I have stood out in a negative way. I did not think that this post would stand out as the discussions within this particular thread have wavered slightly and I felt that my post fell inline with the general/overall course of discussion. I have constantly tried to maintain a high state of SA which [I hope] has been reflected in my prior posts and the way in which I try to conduct myself. And I guess I need to not try to be the final A in survival and be more of an observant guest.

Again, my apologies, I was only offering up an extra bit of info that I know has helped me in the past.

Best
Morgan

Good sight, I usually print out a couple of their task and we accomplish them while Camping.
What kind of tent are people using on here. I was lucky enough to obtain a Kifaru four and six Man Tepee in a trade. You cant beat the light weight. Also I enjoy camping in the colder weather more (Less people and no Bugs) The Kifaru Tepees are the only ones I know of that let you hook up a stove on the inside. The Stove and Pipe are only about 4lbs and fold up to the size of a large Laptop computer when disassembled.
Downside is the cost. A four Man with Stove runs around $600 last I checked.

Tents?????
 

Tents? Tents?

Man, I'm still at the poncho and bungie cord stage. Only way I can keep the wife at home. The girls think "primative" camping is cool.

Great thing about this thread is learning from others something we might not know and are better off because of.

What I like about Bear Grylls and Survivor Man is playing survival critic while watching the show. However if you do watch you are bound to learn something now and then (1 out of 3 shows) that you could use.

For example, before Bear Grylls you would easily find me in the woods hacking wildly at a branch with my knife. I had never thought to use a rock to beat the back of the knife through the wood instead of hacking at it. Great time/strength saver.

From Survivor Man I learned how to make a needle and thread for many uses from an Agave plant which someday might come in handy as I live in the same area.

mugwump - I've had that pocket chainsaw for years now and agree, it is the best. I tried other smaller ones a long time ago and broke them with in 2 minutes. Anyone looking to add to their kit or BOB should add one of those. Great investment overall.

TR originally asked what we would bring and what our priorities are. I'm going on the assumption that I KNOW no one is coming for me for 2 months so certain other requirements fall away.

If I could only carry my items in my pockets/belt this is what I would carry:

• Adventure Medical Kits Pocket Survival Pack (AKA Doug Ritter's PSP)
• Space Bag
• Pocket Chainsaw
• Bic lighter
• Leatherman Ukiah
• canteen with cup and tabs
• petzl e+LITE (thing is small!)
• AMK Pocket Medic Kit with additional betadine
• Sponge sheet
• Maxpedition RollyPoly (if you don't have one and want to know how big they can get, you can stuff a poncho liner into it completely or 7 M16 mags)

If I could take a small assault pack and be SUPER comfortable (Wants):

• 6qt MSR Dromedary bladder
• Woobie
• Complete IMPS net w/ 2 D-rings
• 100ft 550 cord
• Poncho
• 1 container Emergency Survival Food Tabs
• Morton's Salt
• Large can of baked beans
• Aquapak http://www.solarsolutions.info/aquapak/aquapak.html
• Cold Steel Kukri
• Bottle of soap
• medium sized sheet of aluminum

If I could bring a firearm I would bring a .22 survival rifle with a box or two of rounds

My Priorities on the first day are (and since this IS A NON HOSTILE situation):
Shelter, Water then fire

Long Term Priorites are:
Sustainable water supply
Sustainable food sources
Comfortable shelter with a view

Tasks are:
Shelter Area selection
Food Prep area selection
Hygiene and Waste area selection

Sire24657 asked what 2 books we would bring if we could:

*Army Survival Guide - (newest edition available)
*Tom Brown's Field Guide to Wilderness Survival

Now to explain some of my extra items so I can hear about potential replacements and downsides as well as add to the discussion.

• Space bag - besides obvious uses (sleeping, signaling...) it can also be used to collect water or when it finally falls to shreds can be used to increase the insulation on the shelter. Can also be used to wrap food with for storage.
  
• Leatherman Ukiah - great game knife, has all the tools you need to deal with processing game.
  
• petzl e+lite - I've had one of these for a while. While it isn't a combat tough light it still fits the bill for when you need light at night. It also runs for quite a long time without a battery change.
  
• Sponge Sheet - can be used for many purposes. tear it in half and use one half for filtering, water collection, bathing and the other half (when damp) for TP
  
• Maxpedition RollyPoly - drop pouch basically, plug the drain hole on the bottom and you have a small water blivet for moving water (obviously it'll leak out over time) You can also use to hold captured game, fish, foraged foods or gear when moving.
  
• 6qt Bladder - has two parts, the bladder and the cap. Much less items to fail you than a standard camelback. Holds a ton of water
  
• IMPS net w/ D-rings - hammock, fish net, hold your shelter together, fold in half and stuff it for a mattress, use it to help gather wood, leaves, etc.
  
• 550 cord - mostly for snares, traps and shelter lashing. It has a million uses
  
• Morton's Salt - TR goes on about salt so much I have finally given in and added more salt to my what-if-lists. for salting meats for storage and daily intake
  
• Large can of baked beans - food for the first and second day, after that the can will be turned into a wood gasification stove so I can conserve my wood fuel sources and cook more efficiently.
  
• Food tabs - to make the first week a bit more comfortable, doesn't have to be in there if it would violate the terms of the 2 month vacation package.
  
• Aquapak -boiling water uses fuel, fuel you have to find daily. This will allow me to spend less time boiling/filtering water and more time on bringing home the bacon.
  
• Bottle of soap - Dr Bronner's to be exact, it's good for everything literally.
  
• Kukri - machete, axe, weapon. Cold Steel makes one that is styled a bit more like a machete for all the machete enthusiasts.

Two Months is a lot of time, and a lot of time to craft additional need/want items. TR mentioned this scenario is a forest. So I'm running with that.Besides obvious need to do tasks here are some extras for consideration. With all the time on our hands we might as well do some large scale crafting.

A site next to the river is not a good idea, however within 200 - 300 meters is. Reason being, your natural waste area needs to be a good distance from the water source down stream from your living area. Your food prep area should be between you and the water source and more than 100 m from either. Just a rule of thumb. Your food prep area/kitchen is going to attract wild life of all kinds as does the water source. Use this to an advantage and set an extra amount of snares and traps inbetween. Additionally you don't want these critters stumbling into your shelter, the extra distances between help eliminate a lot of problems. With your waste area aways off (latrine trench dug of course)

Medium sized project. Using the pocket saw I would fell some decent sized trees with a base trunk size of 1.5 to 2 ft in diameter. I could cut it in 2 ft lengths and using hot rocks from a fire, burn down the center to make them into large buckets for storing water. This is one way woodland Indians would make canoes. It keeps it in one piece and hardens the inside. Of course the water would taste like the tree. This can be scaled down to make bowls, etc.

Large project: Again using the pocket saw, one could cut a 2 ft diameter tree down and cut the trunk into 4 inch lengths that are large discs. Wrap the perimeter of these discs with tightly wound 550 cord. Punch out the center rings and drive two of these onto the ends of a 3-4 ft straight sturdy pole from a sapling and you have 2 wheels and an axle. Keep building up from there and you have a cart. Realistically, with other tasks in mind, the wheels and axle shouldn't take more than 2 days to complete.

Why would you need a cart? To be more comfortable and efficient. You could move large game with it, firewood, rocks and stones. A word of note: This cart will break down from time to time. A wheel might break, the axle, or some other piece. Be sure to save the large tree trunk for the wheels to make replacements.

For my Shelter
I would start the first night with a lean-to. The next day I would begin making a bow structure (dome). I would use saplings/branches implanted a foot or more into the ground at about 12 ft apart in a circle, bow them over and tie them together in the middle. The walls would be interwoven like a mat with smaller branches for the basic structure and build up the outer walls with a mix of river clay/mud and straw/grass/pine needles. I suppose I could make sun baked bricks out of this mix as well to fashion an inside stove/oven. As time permitted I would dig the floor out to make more standing room in the middle along with 'shelves' and an elevated sleeping platform along the walls. Ideally it would be big enough to have a fire inside. So the roof would need a vent that could be covered during inclimate weather. Drainage might be an issue as would a dirty floor. Floor and bedding mats could be made with thin branches, reeds, plants from near the water...

Food
Fish traps and net would be a great provider. Pine needle tea (yes I've had it). Wait by the water at dawn/dusk with the .22 and bag some game. Set snares and traps along the animal paths. Find some abundant edible plants to compliment my meals and I might actually come back from this trip healthier than when I left!

Water
Purification...you either get it right or you don't.

This is a very alternative method, not the most efficient, if you have other ways use them. You can boil water in a hollowed out tree stump using hot rocks from a fire. Get a good hot fire going and put some rocks in the middle. Try not to use porous rocks. When the rocks start getting hot or glowing carefully place them into the hollowed out tree stump. Wait a minute for the thermodynamics to do its work then get them out and replace them with more hot rocks. If you do it right you can boil water this way. You could even make a stew...mmm rabbits...

Build a filter, mint leaves on rocks, on smaller rocks, on large grain sand, on smaller grain sand, on activated charcoal, on cloth. You don't need mint, that's only a forest mojito.

Ceramic filter from river clay. You will need to force the water through it. This is a bit advanced though and depends on too many details for this post.

Or dig a well...no not a deep one! about 4 - 5 feet from a water source, keep it covered. Rotate weekly

Fire away!

Some good ideas there DB, but I do not think you are going to fell a lot of 24" diameter trees unless that pocket chainsaw has a two-stroke engine attached to it. You will most likely get it stuck in the first large tree you try to fell with it, and be without a saw for the rest of your stay. It would be difficult to cut the normal wedge and backcut with one without getting it pinched by the tree. I would not attempt anything over 8" or so with it, maybe 12" if I really needed it. Yes, I own a couple of them and have used them in the woods.

Might be a challenge to pitch your hammock in a dome structure, too.

I would want a multi-tool or SAK, but if you think you can get by with a skinning blade, that is your call.

Personally, I would carry the 550 cord on me rather than as an add-on. Trust me, it can be a lifesaver.

In my experience, you can set up as close to flowing water as you like, if you remember to take your potable water on the upstream side of camp and are the only one in the area (so you are not making anyone sick downstream). Nature is putting plenty of feces, urine, dead fish and animal carcasses, giardia, etc. in the water upstream from you, whether you are there or not.

Otherwise, I like the way you think. Good detailed list with some oddities. Beans???

TR

You are right TR. A 24" inch tree would pinch the saw. I was thinking about this last night and you could make a useable cart with 12" wheels, which would be easier to make and replace than 24".

I hadn't thought to pitch the hammock inside the shelter, I was going to put it outside for naps if any thing. Now that I think about if I can manage to get two standing trees to be a part of the walls then I could do it.

I agree about the multi tool, however I would be using the knife and saw much more in this situation than a multi tool might be able to handle. I'd feel safer with a thinker blade.

550 cord of course, it's part of me boots. To carry on person I suppose at least 20'.

Thanks for the insight TR

Roger all.

Rather than building a cart, a travois or a sled might be a better answer. Not sure what you anticipate hauling that would require a cart with a wobbly wheel system, but I would consider looking at the location of those items, the proximity to water and game, and making the camp closer to the heavy items rather than trying to haul them in. The rings in the slices of logs you make the wheels out of will break out in very short order without bearings, and the axle will need lube, or the friction will hog out the wheel hubs as well.

I thought the same thing about the hammock and the shelter. If it is warm weather, find two trees with the proper spacing, and immediately make a lean to over the line between the trees. then later, create a second roof panel on the opposite side to form a pitched roof which will protect from blowing rain.

I lace my boots with several feet of 550 cord. If you gut the ends where they tie, it is much easier to keep them tied.

No worries, glad to see some new thinking here.

TR

I can easily imagine the ringed parts popping out in short order, but with some pegs and slats you might be able to get them to stay put by laying the slats crosswise across the wheels. For lube you could use animal fat, slime from stagnant water or even feces if you're desperate enough. Be an interesting project nonetheless. You're right, an akhio/travois sled would be much easier to build and maintain.

Taking your suggestion of proximity reminded me of something I used as a kid not being strong enough to move some large objects. You could rig a zip-line/Z-pulley system if you have enough 550 cord and 2 D-Rings.

For example if you have to move large game or even a log too big to carry, you could run a line between trees spaced about 10 - 15 meters apart. Throw a loop around your object and use a Z pulley line with the 2 D-rings to hoist it up to your line. Fasten the D-Ring directly attached to the loop to the line and remove the Z pulley line and extra D ring. You can now slide the object along your line. When you come to a tree where you need to change over to the next line, use your second D-ring before removing the first. Keep changing over between lines to get your object where you want it. You could even do this with less than 40m of 550 cord if you remove the first line as you get to the second and just keep rotating them between trees.

Of course your lines would have to be high enough to account for line sagging and to keep your object off the ground to reduce drag.

With more materials one could fashion an even better system. I would prefer 4 pulleys and climbing rope.

You don't even need trees to do this. Think about a ski lift. If you had enough line from start to finish and could tie it off securely with a little slack. Using three 10 ft poles tied off at one end to make a tripod (tie the bottoms so they don't slip out too far) Make three tripods. The tripods could substitute for trees.

I wonder what other kinds of 'tools' people can come up with in a forest.

EDIT: to answer TR's Q on Beans

They have some nutritional value but more of a traditional/ritual value to me more than anything. Nearly every Adventure, Challenge, Deployment, Hardship or Victory in my life has been precluded by beans. Not intentionally but it just happens that way. Might as well continue the habit.

Besides BBQ Baked Beans are delicious! Dessert and Dinner all in one!

In Winter Mountain Warfare School, they had us 100 MPH tape together a lighter to a Chapstick. That one unit was then taped to your dog tags, so you always had it handy.

If you're planning on handling fuel for a small stove/squad-bomb in the winter, you might want to take a pair of rubber dish washing gloves (thick, water-proof and light-weight), otherwise spilt fuel will soak your fiber-based gloves. Plus, they'lll help prevent frostbite caused by spilling fuel on exposed hands.

I took 4 or 5 cotton balls and smooshed vasaline into them. Once I had them in a small ziplock bag, I'd put a bag at the bottom of each ammo pouch. It was an unobtrusive place to keep them, plus it helped push up the mags a bit. Of course, it would be just as easy to store them in your survival/E&E/blow-out kit. Once you lit one of those, it would burn for quite a while even when cold and wet.

-My $.02

same question, different focus:
 

what would you take with you for an extended hike like the AT?

since you can re-up on supplies periodically, maybe once a week on average, what food supplies would you want?

what permanent gear with you?

hope this question hasn't already been used and abused. i read this thread and searched for long hikes. seems like interesting answers could be lying in wait so here it is.

Hope it's ok for me to post, my only tactical experience is boy scouts and camping :lifter

I will post this then go through and read others post's to gain in your knowledge.

I am a big fan of Bear Grylls (I think he's a good guy with good info) and have seen what he can do with limited tools (and a support team standing by for emergencies).

First priorities are:

1 - Water
2 - Fire
3 - Shelter

(since there is a water source nearby 2 and 3 should be relatively close to the water source, animal's and weather conditions permitting)

Once those 3 are set I can now focus on food.

Depending on what the natural conditions are like grubs and insects and possibly plants for food (pine needles if available make for great vitamin C enriched tea)

I would examine the water source for signs of animals and use that to find a track/run and set a snare using my boot lace for deer/rabbit.

While waiting on the snare I would find a good weight stick and try to find some animals to catch (club/throw and hit). If rocks are available they can be used to smooth out and shape the club for better throws (watched Bear do this and nail a rabbit)

Trees might have birds’ nests and since it's spring eggs would be a tasty treat - danger of falling and no medical support would limit how high I am willing to climb though.

If the water source has fish then using sticks in a curve, my shirt and some shoe lace to make a net of sorts can be fashioned to catch some dinner. Also a shoe lace and crafting a hook out of wood could make for a fishing line. Would have to find a nice rock to use for carving the wood. Almost forgot thread from my clothes could be used to make rope or sewing supplies.

Onto water
Filtering the water through rocks and sand and then through my sock would make do for drinking until I can make a bowl of sorts to boil the water in.

Shelter really depends on the type of trees and environment. Lean-to, dome, flat in a tree to keep off the ground and so forth.

Tools I would want to have would be a damn good knife and flint & steel
It would be a huge plus to have some 550 cord and 100mph tape and steel canteen/cup for cooking and drinking.

While waiting my 60 days I would watch for flight patterns and prepare for harsher weather. If tour planes fly by a signal fire would be in order. If I am by an ocean/lake watch for boats. Start exploring to find traces of civilization and help and better food/water supplies.


Well I think that about covers it for now


*edit - I miss read 60 days for 6 months - I will be more carefull

Maybe a good guy... I don't know him BUT he puts out a lot of really bad info and potentially dangerous info. Notice how many times he says "don't try this..."

That shows.

Bear is a freaking idiot who will get you killed. Do a search for him here.

Chlorine for your gene pool.

TR

Just did a search on Bear Grylls here as suggested.

I do agree with the majority that most of the stuff he does is plain stupid (putting himself in unnecessary danger) and "fear factor" related.

As with anything watched on TV (or most things in life even) you have to separate the good from the crap.

I enjoy seeing the locations he goes to, tricks of the trade he uses (trapping and local info fed to him by local experts brought in by the show) and learning from his mistakes. Seeing someone do something bat shit crazy/stupid can really get you thinking on the proper way to do it.

I get a good laugh at the obviously staged stuff (hey it's TV right) :D

A few of the tidbits I have picked up (filtering out the BS crap) would be telling how long before sunset with your fingers, North with a watch on 2 different hemispheres, North with the stick technique some interesting ways to fish, and if trying to tie something to cloth putting a rock in it and twisting can give the cordage something to hold onto.

Thanks for the reality check on Bear, now back to reading the rest of the posts in this section, some really great info here!

*Edited to add I just finished reading threw all the post's in this thread and there is some great information in here, thank you all for your insight!