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-   -   Hostess to close, lay off 18,500 after 'crippling' union fight (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40023)

GratefulCitizen 11-20-2012 11:53

The 1997 UPS strike was about the pension fund.
The union needed control of the pension fund to subsidize the pension funds of other trucking companies that were going bankrupt.

Not sure what the company was planning to do if they gained control.


Our business agents' (union) position in disputes is that we enforce the contract, nothing more, and only if the employee is willing to stand up for himself.
"We're not out to bankrupt the company" is often stated in discussions among business agents and labor.

Pete 11-21-2012 05:45

Hostess Mediation Fails
 
Hostess Mediation Fails, Liquidation To Proceed; Furious Laid Off Workers Now Turn On Labor Union

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-1...-turn-labor-un

"Last week, when discussing the next steps for the company, and specifically the hope that mediation may resolve the epic animosity between management and workers, we stated that "What makes a mediation improbable is that the antagonism between the feuding sides has certainly hit a level of no return: "Several unions also objected to the company's plans, saying they made "a mockery" of laws protecting collective bargaining agreements in bankruptcy.........."

Going to be a long Holiday Season for some folks.

Gypsy 11-21-2012 06:00

Quote:

Maine’s striking Hostess workers say company’s collapse a strong message of union resolve
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete (Post 475705)
Hostess Mediation Fails, Liquidation To Proceed; Furious Laid Off Workers Now Turn On Labor Union

What a difference a day makes...

JSMosby 11-21-2012 12:33

Why don't the Unions invest directly in the Companies where they work so they have an ownership stake and an ownership right in the running of the company?

Investing in individual companies is very risky. Investing in ONLY one company is insanely risky. That's why company managed 401K's are very diverse in their investment portfolios and why pension funds are heavily invested in bonds. Suppose the Bakers' union invests in Hostess, so the workers feel some ownership. Suddenly there is a massive drought, a recall on Twinkies, an explosion at a factory, or anything else that would plunge a companies stock price? Suddenly the value of your investment is slashed dramatically. Not too bad if you have 20 years to retire, but if you planned on settling in Florida next year, you may be screwed.

Stocks are risky and not for the feint of heart, because they deal in equity. Bond heavy funds, however, like pension funds are investments in debt. Debt is very stable, and by law, must be paid out first if a company goes into bankruptcy. So, the union pensions will be investing in bonds because they provide a constant payout or annuity. Thus in retirement, one can accurately predict income and have a bit of security and peace of mind.

All of that said, a company can structure its debt and equity however it likes. Very stable companies may opt to increase cash flow by selling corporate bonds, other companies may opt to focus solely on equity cash flows and carry little to no long term debt. As soon as the Unions get involved in "helping" companies structure their capital, the company will fail, because the structure will be biased towards the Union goals rather than the Company goals. I don't know the background of the Union bosses, but I doubt many of them have MBAs or higher degrees in accounting.

98G 11-21-2012 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSMosby (Post 475740)
Why don't the Unions invest directly in the Companies where they work so they have an ownership stake and an ownership right in the running of the company?

Investing in individual companies is very risky. Investing in ONLY one company is insanely risky. That's why company managed 401K's are very diverse in their investment portfolios and why pension funds are heavily invested in bonds. Suppose the Bakers' union invests in Hostess, so the workers feel some ownership. Suddenly there is a massive drought, a recall on Twinkies, an explosion at a factory, or anything else that would plunge a companies stock price? Suddenly the value of your investment is slashed dramatically. Not too bad if you have 20 years to retire, but if you planned on settling in Florida next year, you may be screwed.

Stocks are risky and not for the feint of heart, because they deal in equity. Bond heavy funds, however, like pension funds are investments in debt. Debt is very stable, and by law, must be paid out first if a company goes into bankruptcy. So, the union pensions will be investing in bonds because they provide a constant payout or annuity. Thus in retirement, one can accurately predict income and have a bit of security and peace of mind.

All of that said, a company can structure its debt and equity however it likes. Very stable companies may opt to increase cash flow by selling corporate bonds, other companies may opt to focus solely on equity cash flows and carry little to no long term debt. As soon as the Unions get involved in "helping" companies structure their capital, the company will fail, because the structure will be biased towards the Union goals rather than the Company goals. I don't know the background of the Union bosses, but I doubt many of them have MBAs or higher degrees in accounting.

German unions actually have a seat on the board for the union rep and many of them hold MBAs. IG Metal was their largest union whe I lived there and they are amazingly still competitive in their area of specialization and only recently was Germany in second place as an export country -- to China. Before that, they have been number 1 for decades. This is with less than 1/3 our population and no natural resources to speak of... Not a bad model.

cbtengr 12-22-2012 08:07

Twinkie News
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ownership.html

Lets all keep out fingers crossed on this bit of news. Personally I miss those little powdered sugar donuts. :)


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