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-   -   Protecting the Second Amendment – Why all Americans Should Be Concerned (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40772)

Badger52 12-02-2023 06:19

US District enjoins pistol purchase rules against 18-20 yo's
 
Quote:

On Friday, Judge Thomas S. Kleeh issued a decision striking down the federal prohibition against 18 to 20-year-olds purchasing handguns.

The plaintiffs in the case are Steven Robert Brown, Benjamin Weekley, the Second Amendment Foundation, and the West Virginia Citizens Defense League.

Judge Kleeh, a Donald Trump appointee, is Chief Judge of the United States District Court for the Northern District of West Virginia.
Quote:

Kleeh noted that the plaintiffs sought summary judgment against the statute while the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), Attorney General Merrick Garland, and ATF Director Steven Dettelbach sought to have the case dismissed.

He sided with the plaintiffs and quoted extensively from Bruen (2022) to show the manner at which he arrived at his decision.

Here is one of Kleeh’s quotes from the Bruen decision:

To justify its regulation, the government may not simply posit that the regulation promotes an important interest…To demonstrate the regulation of that conduct is within the bounds of the Second Amendment, “the government must demonstrate that the regulation is consistent with the Nation’s historic tradition of firearm regulation. Only if a firearm regulation is consistent with the Nation’s historical tradition may a court conclude that the individual’s conduct falls outside the Second Amendment’s “unqualified command.”
LINK at Breitbart here.

Badger52 07-23-2024 14:58

Decent read: Jonathan Turley on the 8th Circuit's 18-20yo case
 
Quote:

The United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit has handed down a major ruling in Worth v. Jacobson in favor of the Second Amendment. The opinion by Judge Duane Benton upholds a lower court in striking down a Minnesota law limiting gun permits for persons 21 years old. It is a question that could find its way to the Supreme Court once splits among the circuits develop.

As noted by scholars such as Stephen Halbrook, it is also the first appellate court to rely on the Supreme Court’s recent decision in Rahimi, which gun rights advocates argued might be a break in the dam of Second Amendment protections. That dubious claim is even less compelling after reading this opinion.

Minnesota has joined states like New York and Illinois in advancing weak arguments to the benefit of gun rights advocates. It argued that, since the Founding, states have restricted guns in the hands of “irresponsible or dangerous groups, such as 18 to 20-year-olds.” That proposition was left virtually unsupported as was the suggestion that 18 to 20-year-olds are a public danger.

Moreover, the court ruled that it would not matter:

“Minnesota states that from the founding, states have had the power to regulate guns in the hands of irresponsible or dangerous groups, such as 18 to 20year-olds. At the step one ‘plain text’ analysis, a claim that a group is ‘irresponsible’ or ‘dangerous’ does not remove them from the definition of the people.”
Assessment of this ruling in favor of 18-20yo gun ownership in MN can be found in the full article here.
The case is Worth v. Jacobson

JimP 07-24-2024 03:51

Texas allows concealed carry for 18 and up. My daughter is 19 and has her permit. Unfortunately, she could not take her heater cross-country for lack of reciprocity. At least in Texas she has some protection.

Badger52 07-24-2024 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimP (Post 679454)
Texas allows concealed carry for 18 and up. My daughter is 19 and has her permit. Unfortunately, she could not take her heater cross-country for lack of reciprocity. At least in Texas she has some protection.

This kind of stuff is infurating. Funny-not-funny part about here is that it's 21 to apply for a CC permission card, but we've always had open-carry which can be done at 18 since there isn't a specific age for possessing (vs. purchasing). Glad your daughter takes ownership of her personal protection.

GratefulCitizen 07-24-2024 12:16

Federal judge vacates ATF classification of FRTs as machine guns.

More importantly, the judge clarifies separation of powers.
The conclusion section of the ruling is powerful.

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aai...9-914a6a917b0b

Badger52 07-24-2024 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen (Post 679457)
Federal judge vacates ATF classification of FRTs as machine guns.

More importantly, the judge clarifies separation of powers.
The conclusion section of the ruling is powerful.

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aai...9-914a6a917b0b

Came here to post exactly this. GC's recommendation to read the decision is hereby seconded. ATF is big mad over this one. Skim the early page 1 cites but read the decision. Well-written by someone (judge or clerk) who knows something about firearms.
:lifter

MR2 07-25-2024 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen (Post 679457)
Federal judge vacates ATF classification of FRTs as machine guns.

More importantly, the judge clarifies separation of powers.
The conclusion section of the ruling is powerful.

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aai...9-914a6a917b0b

Now we need a pile of lawsuits against the DOJ for unconstitutional takings.

Badger52 07-25-2024 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2 (Post 679462)
Now we need a pile of lawsuits against the DOJ for unconstitutional takings.

That would be a wonderful class-action suit, with a likelihood of prevailing.

Box 07-25-2024 07:20

The problem is - decent people that love their country; those that appreciate their freedoms, and hold their liberties dear...
...have jobs.
We have bills to pay.
We also have responsibilities.
We are accountable for those responsibilities to friends and family.
We have neither the spare time or the colossal amounts of money needed to engage in sustained lawfare against city hall.
...and they know that.


So instead, we just shit post on the internet in an attempt to show people how full of shit our government processes are. To maaaaybe convince the few folks left sitting on the fence that they have been bamboozled by pop culture...
...or at least to just mercilessly troll those sad soulless shit sacks that have plenty of time to peacefully protest by setting police cars on fire.

sg1987 07-25-2024 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Box (Post 679464)

So instead, we just shit post on the internet in an attempt to show people how full of shit our government processes are. To maaaaybe convince the few folks left sitting on the fence that they have been bamboozled by pop culture...
...or at least to just mercilessly troll those sad soulless shit sacks that have plenty of time to peacefully protest by setting police cars on fire.

Box, I really think you should consider your own podcast. You could be bigger than Joe Rogan.😃

Badger52 07-25-2024 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Box (Post 679464)
The problem is - decent people that love their country; those that appreciate their freedoms, and hold their liberties dear...
...have jobs.
We have bills to pay.
We also have responsibilities.
We are accountable for those responsibilities to friends and family.
We have neither the spare time or the colossal amounts of money needed to engage in sustained lawfare against city hall.
...and they know that.

There is iron in your words for all decent people to hear.

bblhead672 07-25-2024 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2 (Post 679462)
Now we need a pile of lawsuits against the DOJ for unconstitutional takings.

Box is right...the average Joe doesn't have the time nor money to fight the DOJ.

However, if some organizations go after the ATF I hope their discovery includes everything about the Las Vegas shooting.

GratefulCitizen 08-06-2024 20:23

4th circuit upholds AR-15 ban.
SCOTUS will likely hear the appeal.

https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/211255.P.pdf

For the inside baseball synopsis:
https://youtu.be/a-sjZyenplc?si=KDR6iU85c5QRecz_

Box 08-06-2024 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen (Post 679528)
4th circuit upholds AR-15 ban.
SCOTUS will likely hear the appeal.

https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/211255.P.pdf

For the inside baseball synopsis:
https://youtu.be/a-sjZyenplc?si=KDR6iU85c5QRecz_

I hope SCOTUS rules favorably before Queen Harris declares an executive action, then uses her corporate funded congress to impeach enough of the conservatives justices to allow her to appoint enough radicals to reregulate the 2d amendment from the bench

Badger52 08-07-2024 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Box (Post 679529)
I hope SCOTUS rules favorably before Queen Harris declares an executive action, then uses her corporate funded congress to impeach enough of the conservatives justices to allow her to appoint enough radicals to reregulate the 2d amendment from the bench

That decision took an awful lot of air to say:
"No. BFYTW."

That would be the new summary judgement du jour.

Badger52 08-10-2024 11:43

8th Circuit Spanks Pistol Brace Ban
 
Here's the decision.

The dissenting opinion is actually interesting in that he seems to be saying (to my IANAL eye) "SCOTUS has already spanked ATF over these capricious rulemaking decisions so why is it necessary for us to do this?"

Nonetheless, the previous action is being remanded to lower for reconsideration in light of this decision and the previous SCOTUS ruling on the regime's shenanigans.

:cool:

GratefulCitizen 08-22-2024 17:07

Machine guns protected by the Second Amendment.

https://ecf.ksd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin...2023cr10047-35


This is about to get very interesting.

bubba 08-22-2024 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen (Post 679725)
Machine guns protected by the Second Amendment.

https://ecf.ksd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin...2023cr10047-35


This is about to get very interesting.

Thank God the Supreme Court Justices were appointed by DJT. This will go all the way up, and hopefully (yes, hope isn’t a course of action) the, at a minimum, “pre-86” BS will go away and I can get my drill press out, even if I have to add to my stamp collection. But, with the 2nd seeming to be climbing to the same status as the 1st (as it damn well should be), the entire NFA may be gone before I am……

Badger52 08-23-2024 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba (Post 679726)
...the entire NFA may be gone before I am……

From your lips to God's ear.
:cool:

bubba 08-23-2024 07:42

Gov Appeal
 
So, because I’m assuming this was a criminal case brought by the gov, would an “appeal” by the prosecution be allowed? Would double jeopardy laws apply here?

bblhead672 08-23-2024 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba (Post 679726)
the entire NFA may be gone

Couldn't happen to a more deserving infringement.

Bare minimum would be to remove suppressors from the NFA. Imagine the boom in the suppressor industry if you could walk into a store and buy one without any paperwork.

bblhead672 08-23-2024 10:48

Federal Judge Grants Preliminary Injunction In Challenge To California’s Non-Resident
 
SAF Scores Victory In California Non-Resident Carry Case

Quote:

The Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) and its partners, in a challenge of California’s ban on non-resident concealed carry, won a victory when a federal judge granted a preliminary injunction in the case.

U.S. District Court Judge Sherilyn Peace Garnett, a 2022 Joe Biden appointee, granted in part and denied in part the plaintiffs’ motion for preliminary injunction. The state has 21 days to file a response, and within 30 days plaintiffs must “meet and confer” with the state and Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department “to submit a proposed order entering the preliminary injunction consistent with the specific findings” made by the court order.

SAF is joined by the California Rifle & Pistol Association, Gun Owners of America, Gun Owners Foundation, Gun Owners of California and seven private citizens.
Notably absent from the list again...the NRA (Not Relevant Anymore).

Badger52 08-23-2024 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by bblhead672 (Post 679755)
Notably absent from the list again...the NRA (Not Relevant Anymore).

Heh, they're havin' a fire sale for Wayne's wardrobe.

Swoop 08-25-2024 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bblhead672 (Post 679754)
Imagine the boom in the suppressor industry if you could walk into a store and buy one without any paperwork.

Oh be quiet my ringing ears! :lifter

doctom54 08-25-2024 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swoop (Post 679760)
Oh be quiet my ringing ears! :lifter

:):):)

GratefulCitizen 08-31-2024 12:39

Police officers sued for depriving 2nd Amendment rights, federal judge allows case to move forward:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...91932.13.0.pdf

YouTuber summation:
https://youtu.be/3IG4b_qfYaw?si=w-g9qWttUp8_2FGv

This is significant.
If individual LEOs can be sued for violating 2nd Amendment rights, they will likely err on the side of self-interest.

This will make it much more difficult to impose draconian anti-gun policies.

Badger52 08-31-2024 19:56

Excellent.

bblhead672 09-03-2024 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen (Post 679817)
Police officers sued for depriving 2nd Amendment rights, federal judge allows case to move forward:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...91932.13.0.pdf

YouTuber summation:
https://youtu.be/3IG4b_qfYaw?si=w-g9qWttUp8_2FGv

This is significant.
If individual LEOs can be sued for violating 2nd Amendment rights, they will likely err on the side of self-interest.

This will make it much more difficult to impose draconian anti-gun policies.

"Qualified immunity" needs to go away for all government employees. Violate citizens' rights, pay the price.

Badger52 09-04-2024 05:29

IL CC Ban on Public Transport is Unconstitutional
 
Source over at Breitbart
Decision is hyperlinked below.
Quote:

A U.S. District Judge ruled Friday that Illinois’ ban prohibiting concealed carry for self-defense on public transportation violates the Second Amendment.

The judge, Ian D. Johnston, issued his opinion in Schoenthal v. Raoul.

The plaintiffs in the case, Benjamin Schoenthal, Mark Wroblewski, Joseph Vesel, and Douglas Winston, all claimed the ban violated the Second Amendment.

Schoenthal, Wrogblewski, Vesel, and Winston’s case was supported by the Second Amendment Foundation and the Firearms Policy Coalition.

Judge Johnston noted:

In Illinois, openly carrying firearms is unlawful. Under the Firearm Concealed Carry Act, an individual with a concealed-carry license may generally carry a concealed handgun in public….This general permission, however, does not extend to a list of prohibited areas, including public transportation.

He then pointed to Bruen (2022), noting that it set forward a framework by which gun controls must be analyzed and tested.

Johnston pointed to opinions by Kimberly Foxx, State’s Attorney of Cook County, who argued in support of the ban. He then noted that “Finally, and decisively, whatever is true elsewhere in the law, Ms. Foxx’s proposed framework contradicts Bruen, which rejects the relevance of place to the threshold question of whether certain conduct is covered by the Second Amendment.”

He ultimately ruled that “the Firearm Concealed Carry Act’s ban on carrying concealed firearms on public transportation, as defined in the statute…violates the Second Amendment,” as applied to the plaintiffs.

Second Amendment Foundation founder and executive vice president Alan Gottlieb commented on the ruling, calling it a “significant victory” in which “the court recognized Cook County Attorney Foxx’s argument that the ban was legal because Illinois is acting as a property owner was ‘breathtaking, jaw dropping and eyepopping,’ and that wasn’t a compliment. It demonstrates how far government will reach in an attempt to justify its effort to restrict Second Amendment rights.”
IMO appeal is certain. Because Illinois.

MR2 09-05-2024 10:51

1 Attachment(s)
Me either...

bubba 09-05-2024 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2 (Post 679839)
Me either...

Standards are AweSoME. So AweSoME we should have at least 2. Just think, TWICE the AweSoME!

tom kelly 09-08-2024 13:32

The Double Standard:
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2 (Post 679839)
Me either...

Democrat Communists use this to their advantage.

Badger52 09-08-2024 15:53

Confused 9th Circuit Panel Rules on Hawaii CC in Hospitals
 
From Breitbart; the case is hyperlinked in the quote below

Quote:

On Friday, a three-judge panel from the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled that California cannot ban concealed carry in hospitals.

The case, Wolford v. Lopez, centers on “sensitive places” bans on concealed carry which exist in Hawaii and California.

In a unanimous ruling, the three judges said bans could be “enforced in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol and in parks, and that California can enforce bans in casinos, libraries, zoos, stadiums and museums,” according to Reuters. However, the three judges also ruled against Hawaii’s ban on concealed carry in banks “or adjacent parking lots” and against California’s ban on concealed carry in hospitals, churches, and public transit.
What a discussion it must be as they make their checklist of approved places.
:rolleyes:

GratefulCitizen 09-08-2024 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger52 (Post 679844)
From Breitbart; the case is hyperlinked in the quote below



What a discussion it must be as they make their checklist of approved places.
:rolleyes:

This is going to be a messy patchwork of prohibited places differing based upon state and local laws, further confused by conflicting circuit courts.
SCOTUS will ultimately have to set down a clear standard.

Something like: courts, jails, legislative assemblies, and polling places…the end.

doctom54 09-09-2024 09:38

Elon Musk once again comes out in support of the 2nd Admentment
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/elo...-disarm-people

bblhead672 09-09-2024 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctom54 (Post 679847)
Elon Musk once again comes out in support of the 2nd Admentment
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/elo...-disarm-people

Elon can see the writing on the wall. Governments are plotting against him to take down X since he refuses to bend to their will. The only thing standing between communist rule and freedom is the 2nd.

Badger52 09-09-2024 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bblhead672 (Post 679848)
Elon can see the writing on the wall. Governments are plotting against him to take down X since he refuses to bend to their will. The only thing standing between communist rule and freedom is the 2nd.

People have been known to vote themselves into shackles because "I wanted to be part of something historic."

bblhead672 09-10-2024 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger52 (Post 679850)
People have been known to vote themselves into shackles because "I wanted to be part of something historic."

People have been known to vote themselves BACK into shackles, albeit a different kind, by voting for the party who offers the most continuous government freebies.

doctom54 09-10-2024 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by bblhead672 (Post 679857)
People have been known to vote themselves BACK into shackles, albeit a different kind, by voting for the party who offers the most continuous government freebies.

That's exactly what most in politics are counting on. Such as student loan forgiveness. rrrrrrrrrr

Badger52 09-10-2024 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by bblhead672 (Post 679857)
People have been known to vote themselves BACK into shackles, albeit a different kind, by voting for the party who offers the most continuous government freebies.

No dispute there either.


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