Well, compared with lining a tub with a poly sheet, filling the tub, and laying down another sheet to cover the tub, I agree that I don't see much advantage. I've tried this method and it works well. You need some dexterity to manage the top sheet without sinking it or sticking it to itself when wet. I can see my folk, who are in their 80s, wrestling with this. When I get the new bladder I'll judge if the pump is more problematic than the top sheet.

If you don't line the tub in some fashion first, I suspect that the next day you'll find the tub empty, unless your stopper is much tighter fitting than mine. And in the winter around here I'd lose 1" per day to evaporation without a top sheet (assuming the heat is still on).

The Colony
 

I watched the first two episodes and it looks like an interesting experiment on post catastrophe survival. Hope you all enjoy.

It airs every Tuesday at 10pm on Discovery Channel. But the first two episodes are online at the discovery channel website.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/colony/colony.html:

Watched a bit...
 

I liked Out of the Wild but I'm not too crazy about this one. Flicked it off after the first raid (not the first hunt for supplies) by the bad guys.

The threat of deadly force is the first reply in a situation like that and the civilized version for TV is just too unreal.

A handmade crossbow shooting a two foot metal bolt through an intruder's chest would show your intensions were serious. But for TV it was pushy, shovey, oooh that's mean.

I'd tend to agree with Pete, the superficial drama is a bit much, though it's brought up a few topics that I hadn't thought about, like how to handle additional unrelated but apparently unthreatening visitors to your camp i.e. extra mouths to feed, especially when considering the reactions of some of your own people. It’s also interesting to me to see how untrained personnel view things, like security for instance, not earth shattering knowledge, but it is somewhat thought provoking for me at least.

Overall not the worst hour of TV I've seen.

I watched them struggle to build a generator and make wood gas for fuel, completely overlooking steam power or the bicycles that were sitting around. Funny how people look for to apply a specific solution from their own experience set and spend way too much energy on it rather than considering alternatives.

The handyman may be useful, but he is an opinionated asshole who would quickly grow tiresome. Several others are friction points with attitudes as well.

I also disagree with looting other people's property who are still in the area trying to survive themselves, it is only one step beyond that to killing all competitors in your AO.

Made me think, though. I would watch it again.

TR

Absolutely agree, he's got good experience/skills but his personal issues are already causing friction as you said TR, the wife and I saw a re-run of the wood gas generator today, I commented to her that he and the young female engineer both seemed to have issues/attitudes that are not helpful and going to be counter to group cohesion and counterproductive in general IMO.


That part got to me as well, one thing to scavenge from empty homes/stores, the country side, quite another to take from other survivors, that didn't set very well, but it doesn't surprise me particularly either.

It also brought me back to thinking about what if those same people came to my camp and were determined to be non-hostile, the decision to either allow them in or turn them away becomes critical, and morally challenging especially with limited resources. Under the show's circumstances they've got limited resources so adding mouths to feed becomes problematic at some point, however strength in numbers plus the additional skills they may bring make for a complicated decision.

As you said it does provoke thought, I'll give it another look.

TR

Agree: They couldnt see the forest for the trees. A pulley and belt mounted to the rear tire of one of the bikes proportioned to that of an "exercycle" would be a whole lot easier than the wood gas principle or even the old U.S. Army HC type generators.

More on water filtration...

My old NGO friend who lives for months on end in absolute shit holes has recommended a new water filter to me. She is using these in Congo villages as a stop gap while they dig new wells for a clean water supply. They bring in 10 of the filter units and use the ubiquitous plastic buckets as the 'dirty' resevoir. The Point Zero Two version filters 30 liters per hour and requires no other treatment (the .02 micron filter catches all viruses so no hypochlorite is needed for post-filter treatment). It apparently uses technology originally developed for ambulatory renal dialysis units. A simple back wash of the filter restores maximal flow. The manufacturers claim they've put a million gallons through one. The web site has testing and accredidation info.

I've never used it, but if NGO-Barbie recommends it that has been good in the past. They don't use them 'on demand' as the site recommends -- they need to 'make' too much water to supply a village -- so they leave them running constantly. They pre-filter the water through gravel/sand/cotton cloth. The Point Zero Two filters are back-flushed twice daily. Seems a good test of the system. At $145 they are cheaper than most portable/backpacking units.

She also says that if she had to buy them (the Point Zero Two units she uses were donated) she would use the Point One filter as the flow rate is double and the cost less than half ($60). Those do not filter out all viruses but catch all bacteria, protozoa, cysts, etc. She says the locals are resistant to most viruses in their environment and the ones they aren't (Hep A) pass around the water supply anyway.

The site: http://www.sawyerpointonefilters.com...o-purifier.php

ETA: searching on this I found another site that says these guys were at the last SHOT. Anyone see this there?

No, but I will be looking for them next year. Thanks for the info. Now I need to find/make an actvated charcoal filter to put downstream from this one. (Chemically contaminated well water at the new house, lost the lake I depended on when we moved, now I'm stuck on city water and have to have a more elaborate emergency plan. :()

Lifesaver bottle
 

On the topic of water and filtration:

Has anyone seen this product yet?

http://www.lifesaversystems.com/index.html

a very good presentation on the product can be viewed here:

http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_pri...er_filter.html

Seems like a very practical product to me for drinking water, although I can't see a substitute for knowledge of filtration systems in case of a system failure...

After all, we are discussing being prepared.

They pitch this for disaster relief, for which it seems singularly impractical. The pump-on-the-move feature may make it better suited for mil operations but it looks like you'd need to filter several bottles to fill a Camelback.

Pros: It catches all viruses, it looks like you can fill the 'dirty' side reservoir and then pump it on the move, and it has a useful life of 1000 gallons before needing refurbishment.

Cons: size (UK Tommy has it in his smock pocket - I wonder what falling prone onto it would do) , expense ($150), it has a 3 year expiry even when unused/unopened, requires maintenance (periodic silicone greasing during use, 'priming' during storage), the backwash procedure needed for the 1000 gal. limit looks complicated, it uses replacement parts (new filter $99 plus $40 for prefilter and activated carbon filter packs), requires active pumping, and it apparently suddenly shuts down without warning when the filter limit is reached (which they sell as a feature).

Sounds fiddly, like my M1A. :) I think the third world (or my family in a disaster scenario) needs an AK: unlimited shelf life, no replacement parts, minimal or no maintenance, unlimited filter life, passive filtering (no pumping), high flow rate, cheap price. All instructions for use should fit on one side of a laminated 3x5 notecard. If it needs a manual, forget it.

Key West as no natural water. Many houses are set up as compounds. My house there had a two story duplex and the house next door with rain gutters and piping that sent ALL rainwater into the cistern that was under my back porch. Not sure of the exact tankage but the cistern itself was 8 feet deep, 22feet long by 12 feet wide. At any given time it was 1/2 to 2/3's full. We had a foot pump that could get water out fairly easily.
Whale gusher makes a simple foot pump that runs about $100, get the tubing that is for 45psi and up..

The problem with technology is that it breaks down. If there is a breakdown in society that creates a need for all this prep. Then, the possibilty of finding replacement parts decreases, it seems, with the further slide into more 'primitive' living conditions. Some of the old standbys for purifying water are pretty simple. Bleach and iodine. Bleach breaks down into biodegradeable components within roughly 24 hours. I use it all the time in my water tank.

One might consider sorting through the Foxfire Series of books. Is it Mother Earth News that has all that back to the earth living in primitive conditions like hippies stuff a lot in thier mag? Thing is a lot of that stuff is very useful. But to get past the organic, back to the earth, techonology is bad stuff is a bit bothersome.

AM,

Do you have a reverse osmosis pump or desalinator to augment your rain catchment?

Do you mean boat or house? No,to both, for any number of reasons.

I am by no means a luddite. However, a decent watermaker would cost in the $4,300 range plus installation. A single replacement membrane is $338. Those prices are from www.defender.com do a search for 'watermaker'. The power 80e
The manual model takes 13 minutes of pumping to get a single cup of water.

For the cost of one watermaker I can have one of these puppies, tuned to (illegally) add the SSB bands.
http://yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=Dis...5&isArchived=0
I can even have some nice bells and whistles. Antennas and all that good stuff.
Considering that someone has proposed a bill to ban the internet (cross thread points please) in times of 'national crisis".. It seems wiser to use my meager funds on something far more useful. :D:D with a pactor modem I can even get weather gribs and email.

I am a firm believer in KISS. The simpler it is, the less I have to work at maintaining it. The less there is to go wrong. Gutters and pipes to a cistern need virtually no maintenence. A mainsail with a catch funnel with hose to the watertank again simple and easy to maintain. I am rather lazy, I would much rather lay under the bimini and read, than work at some techno whiz bang toy.