Food Danger Zones
 

All mad food scientists should read this:

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/arti...peratures.html

Well...it was a fail and a win. The fail was that 3 Ziploc vacuum bags seemed to have failed. They all developed bubbles that caused the tops of the the bags to rise. The racks kept the meat under water. The first bag was a gallon-sized one. I moved the two ribs into separate quart-sized bags. When I removed them, after 12 hours, they seemed to be filled with water and also had a huge air bubble in them.

I drained the liquid, dried the meat, and coated it with BBQ sauce. I was going to finish them on the grill, but they were so tender that I thought that they might fall apart, so it finished them in a skillet. They turned out tender and tasted great!

I imagine that the high temp may have expanded the little air that was left in the bags, but that doesn't explain the water in the bags. There is no evidence of anything leaking out of the bag and into the SVS itself. :confused:

All's well that ends well, though! :lifter

Pat

Guy, I agree with TS, chicken is a no go. We did sous vide poultry once, and only once. Its all about texture, customers freaked out on the fork tender meat; unlike beef, veal, or pork, the texture was to soft.

PSM, when we use ziplock gallon bags, we immerse the bag with the product in place, and then we seal it. The water pressure removes the air pocket you mentioned and the package surrounds the meat. Be careful with bones tearing the bag after placing it in the sous vide oven.

PSM: Clip the bag to the side so that it does not sink. If cooking for an extended time, I vacuum seal the product.

Sous-Vide butterflied leg of lamb. Seared after 10hrs for that Mallard-Duck thingamajig.:p

I'm using the SV Supreme and it has racks. I'm just wondering if the 3 bags failed or not. There was an awful lot of liquid in the bag, but nothing in the SVS water. The liquid may have come from the ribs, but I'm not sure.

Tasted great, though, so I'm happy! :D

Pat

I've had some Ziplock bags fail also, especially after being "totally" submerged for an extended length of time.

BTW...I stopped removing the membrane on ribs because, it helps keep them intact when cooking SV for a lengthy amount of time...:munchin

Funny you should mention that. When I made the STL style ribs, I removed the membrane and when I finished them on the grill they fell off the bone. So I left the membrane on this time and they held together just fine. I didn't finish them on the grill, though, because I wasn't sure that they would. Good tip!

Pat

LMAO!!!!
 

If I cook for the "family" they, get the cheapest cuts of meat on the market; it ain't like the MFers are paying for it!:munchin

I decided to play around with some eggs for lunch. These were done at 64C for 45 minutes. The yolk was a little overdone for my likes so I'll try 63C next time but will probably have to poach them a few seconds in water to firm up the whites. Or maybe I'll try steaming in the bowls at the end.

Pat

Soft boiled in the shell is 64C for 35 minutes for large eggs. Adjust from that. You probably just cooked them too long. Try 30 minutes since they are out of the shell. How are you trying to cook them (desired end state)?

I want the yolk runny but the whites set. That's hard to do since the two different "whites" and the yolk all set at different temps. This is why I'll probably have to finish in a quick poach or steam (I've never tried this). I've finished by a quick poach before.

This was a test of cooking them in the little bowls. Now I just have to figure out how to finish them in the bowls. I'll just have to eat the failures, I guess. ;)

Pat

Sous-Vide an egg?

You guys really need to get out more......:rolleyes::munchin;)

I poached an omelet the other day, too. :D

Pat

Took a road trip to central AZ earlier this week and, while in PHX, my wife found a new wholesale restaurant supply store that's also open to the public. So, we ended up coming home with lots of new utensils, a good selection of cheese, and 18 pounds of tri-tip.

Below is one of the tri-tips after about 4 hours in the SV oven and finished on a hot grill 5 minutes a side. Served with pilaf, asparagus, and shallots in a red wine reduction.

ETA: Made this yesterday but forgot to get a pic. The one below is from today after it spent the night in the refrigerator, hence the lack of juice in the photo.

Pat

What is a Tri-Tip

Bottom corner of the bottom sirloin. In the past it was ground into hamburger then grill masters (I guess) in Santa Maria, CA, started using them and they became very popular here in the West. Very tender and juicy. The prime cut has a layer of fat that adds flavor.

Here's a link to Santa Maria Style: http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/05/t...ria-steak.html

On this cut, I just seasoned it like a SRR. It's like a poor man's Prime Rib. ;)

Pat

PSM, thanks for that, I appreciate your time.

No problem. I wouldn't have the SVS without your recommendation and link to their refurbished sale. :lifter

Pat

Tri Tip is a traditional California Central Coast Cowboy cut. It is grilled over an open pit using oak for the fuel. Red Oak is my preferred wood, especially the bark which contains oils that produce an aromatic and flavor infusing smoke. I usually grill it for about 12-15 minutes a side then pull it off the direct heat for another 15 minutes or so. The cowboys I know coat the meat in a season salt. This will produce a bark that holds in the juices. When it is cut, the juice will pour out of it. It is not served with any kind of BBQ sauce. The traditional side dish is Pinquito Beans, pink beans slow cooked with onions, chiles and spices......

The best trick I learned when grilling them was that it's done when it wiggles like jello. Works every time. :D

Pat

Because of the heavy grain it makes a good cut for anything requiring shredded beef. I use it for my enchiladas and southwest egg rolls. Slow cooked over night to tenderize it (it's a bit tough if not cut thin against the grain) and then fork shredded works well.

"Because of the heavy grain it makes a good cut for anything requiring shredded beef." IVB

That's heresy out here, don't go to Santa Maria...

Too far to the left coast for me. No danger of me ever getting close.

Change Management Time
 

New and better, exact same principle, better equipment.

I am in the process of redesigning the kitchen. The intention is all induction hubs and sous vide. Range will have 6-8 hubs side by side, back up by four smart hubs w/tanks. I am not a fan of the circulation system from Poly-sci in Chicago, (http://polyscienceculinary.com/colle...classic-series), which is a personal preference, due to size of my kitchen and the production process limited to 60 covers max. So, when I discover this system I threw away the Viagra.

www.Oliso.com

The guy in the Demo way over cooked the salmon!!!

The smart hubs look nice. Kinda small for a commercial kitchen isn't it? 11 qt. You'd need 3 of them to do the same volume as one 32 qt Cambro with a poly sci circulator.

He also didn't sear the sides of the steak he shows, just the top and bottom (and the bottom is pretty weak).

That's damn cool! (Pun only slightly intentional. ;)) Certainly adds versatility to the kitchen.

Pat

1 VB, have you used that system?

I've used the 24qt w/ poly sci very briefly in school, it seemed to do the job pretty well, but never in the setting you are in. It was a real question for knowledge. I'd like to understand the reasons behind your choice given the price difference. Is it for the flexibility of multiple temperatures? Is the smarthub more consistently heated? Is it the flexibility of sous vide or induction in the same space?

I'm not arguing, I'm asking. I've never used the smarthubs.

What I never liked about the Poly Sci was the idea that one cambro fits all. The smart-hub, as you surmised, allows for "flexibility of multiple temperatures", and the almost instant increase in water temperatures via the induction hub.

Their Vac system is a waste of money.

So tell me a bit about your culinary background, are you a working professional chef, and what school?

Thanks.

I had/have a ton of GI Bill cash to use from both Montgomery era and Post 9/11. Since college won't make a difference at this point in my day job (I own an IT company), I used some of it to attend the Art Institute of Atlanta and took the cooking portion of the Culinary Arts degree. I already know the P&L and budget stuff and already had the basics from St Pete College (Math, English, etc.). If I were to go back and take the finance part,Arte Du Cuisine and 40 industry hours I'd get my AA. I'm currently waiting for a surgery to heal and then going to decide on whether to finish it out. I'll definitely take ADC, just not sure if I want to spend my weekends in a class learning something I do every day (finance).

For a short time I ran the restaurant at the American Legion locally. Nothing special, some short order with a dinner special each night, maybe 50 orders on a good night (counter service). Right now I am in early negotiations to buy a restaurant/bar that seats about 110 for dinner (80 inside, 32 patio) + another 40ish at the bar. I'll have to redo the kitchen if we close the deal. That's the source of the question.

ETA:
I won't be the chef at the restaurant, I'll hire someone with experience. My focus will be the business side of things.

Other than that, I'm just a better than average home cook with a lot of time spent playing with my food, especially the modernist side. I tend to go italian, southwest or classic french (when I have the time) with my food.

That's interesting, you do not need the AA, as for the "Art Institute" of Atlanta and all other branches are owned by Goldman Sacks, they are predatory. Their business model is centered on those who marginally graduated high school. I had two yo-yo's who worked briefly for me in NYC. AI, the tuition mill for Goldman, arranged their students loans...$70K each. The key, as always is the instructors, are they monster cooks or not?

I don't think I would use my GI benefits on culinary school, or if I did, maybe limited it to a six month program at a great pastry school. imo, the business model for cash generation, rather than CC's, is a patisserie, great coffee and pastries. Counter service only, minimal setup cost, off the charts RIO. Restaurants are PIA.

The schools that seem to attract talent and are most respected are FCI, CB, CIA, the best though are Drexel University and Cornell in the USA.

The only reason I would finish it is because I am so close to it. I already have the 40 hours from the Legion and I'd want to take ADC anyhow. That leaves me two classes (budget/P&L and Menu Development) to get the legitimate title of Chef.

Honestly, I'm not impressed by their student body. There were a few shining stars, but most of them were just there to get the diploma. The reason I actually stopped going was over sanitation/food safety issues. They've cleaned it up enough now that I can go back.

You hit it on the head. Cordon Bleu is doing the same thing here in Atlanta. Gov't backed Student Loans and Grants are the business model for both. AI is the only one in the area with weekend courses though. For me it's them or nothing. I'd prefer CIA, but there isn't one around here. My business ties me to the Greater Atlanta area.


I'm using the benefits on something I enjoy. Otherwise they would just sit there unused. I've thought about taking the Baking and Pastry side from AI. In this area there are patisseries and good coffee shops (not Starbucks!) about every 1/2 mile. The market is completely saturated. If you ever come down this way, I'll take you to Alpine Bakery. Their cakes and pastries are off the charts! http://alpinebakeryandtrattoria.com/bakery/ The dinners aren't bad, but people go there just for the desserts, dinner is an afterthought.

Edited to catch up to your edit:

The key, as always is the instructors, are they monster cooks or not? - They were hit or miss. I don't know about the newer ones, they had some turnover in the last two years after failing, yes...failing, < 60, their food service inspection for the student restaurant. The one that teaches ADC subbed for one of the weekends I was there. He was on top of his game.

Restaurants are PIA. - yes, this one is a unique situation that I am positioned perfectly to take advantage of. I don't want to post it on the open board, will send a PM.

I'm extremely happy I used my veterans benefits to attend Le Cordon Bleu. I chose it over AI because it was food focused. And because many of the instructors were former CIA grads.

And I would recommend it to those that are there to work hard and learn, and not to smoke weed, and do drugs like many of the lines cooks all over America being "trained" by someone that actually knows very little about food. I've found that finding a chef to work for and train under is like finding a martial arts instructor, most just know enough to be a great fake. The real ones are few and far between. And if you think we have military frauds it's about times ten for the cooking industry, everyone is a chef......

Le Cordon Bleu was like any other of the dozens and dozens of schools I've attended, you get out of it what you put into it. Afterwards it's like any other occupation , you start at the bottom and work your way up, if you're good. I finished and went to cook in Afghanistan and the Ritz in Cayman Islands.

I worked hard, studied hard, graduated with a 4.0 average and I've no doubt I could replicate just about any recipe as well as the exec chef. What I don't have is the master level of cooking where dishes are invented. That in my opinion takes a real artist in the industry and someone with tons of passion for his/her craft.

I also learned it's not rocket science and there are techniques and principles for success, learn them and it becomes second nature to cook.

When I briefly lived in Lompoc, CA in the 1980s I found that tri tip BBQs in Santa Maria, SLO, and elsewhere in the region were the fund raising equivalent of car washes in other parts of the country. That was when I fell in love with that cut of meat.

Simple meal for a simple guy
 

Moved.

TS, just to be clear, as I stated “The schools that seem to attract talent and are most respected are FCI, CB, CIA,” French Culinary Institute, Le Cordon Bleu, and the Culinary Institute of America, they are bona fide occupational schools.

Our hiring experience has been, that they mostly, on average, produce uneven, skilled employees. Except for Cordon Blue, Cordon Blue tends to attract the more mature serious candidates, who have a clear idea of what they want to achieve. Their graduates of the Grande Diplome program are highly sought after, especially, if they attended the Paris home school, CB pastry school is world class instruction and the best investment.

The issue is training vs ROI. CIA 100K for a four year BS in Culinary Arts? FCI 6 months 60K, Cordon Blue 52K, which begs the question is culinary school necessary. The answer is time related. If someone has the time, the best route is estages in Europe as free labor for 1-2 years, in 2 and 3 star Michelin restaurants. You would see and work every station. On return to the USA, any shift sous chef position in a highly regarded restaurant would make you a serious candidate for hire.

With regard to those who do not attend culinary school and who train under…yo chef, what are we doing…we never hire. But, if they have trained under chef’s we know and respect, which implies the small circle of highly regarded French culinary techniques type restaurants in USA, they are seriously considered, before all others.

Which brings us to the contention of using hard earned educational benefits for culinary school vs a BA or BS in business management, STEM or any degree that would open employment in the 60K range within 2-5 years to of graduation. In the culinary world, you have to be a major experienced executive sous chef to command that salary range, which translates to 10+ years in the field, even if you possess a BS in Culinary science for CIA. Though I don’t have the numbers to support this claim, it is a known fact that many culinary grads leave the industry within 5 years. So, 2-4 years of school. Add debt, and X years in the business, before moving on to something new, that’s a terrible ROI.

That said, your argument relates to your decision and performance in CB, which is beyond unusual. Your resume and world experience would open any door. Enrolling in culinary school relates to your passion for food, not employment. You are the ideal partner, or managing director, there is no one that can compare to what you have accomplished.

What is of interest is the GI Bill continues until you have exhausted the benefits, but what is little known, and there are plenty here, that are Chapter 31 Voc/rehab, is the program can be reentered for failure to produce gainful long term employment capable of sustaining one responsibilities/life style, which translates to entering the program up to and including your master’s degree, plus stipend, at any school you gain admittance to.

http://www.eater.com/2013/7/11/64088...nary-education

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...e+the+industry

Mythbuster Savage has a new website and I found this interesting video when researching how best to reverse-sear my SV steaks: Tested

While the chimney methods seems the best, it would require another use for the charcoal, wasting it, or dousing it. I'm willing to give it a try, though. ;)

My wife suggested using our weed torch: https://www.amazon.com/Red-Dragon-VT.../dp/B00004Z2FP

Pat

I like Adam Savage, but I would not ask a 12 year old what he thought was the best steak sear. Purely subjective..........


Who I would ask instead:

Keens Steakhouse

Peter Luger's

Delmonico's

Yeah, he's a James Beard awardee, but he's what 12 years old and these steak houses have been around since the Civil War......;)

I was just interested in the "how" for getting a good quick sear on my SV steaks. So far my cast iron griddle or skillet is the best but it's too much heat in the kitchen for this time of year. The chimney method seems promising, though.

Pat

I think the best steak sear is done with glowing red hard wood coals. You can taste the smoke........ it doesn't taste anything like propane, or cast iron. That's just my take. ;)