There is a Clark J. Farley listed in "Who's Who From MACV-SOG.

thanks, he's james edward farley. he may have had a nick name...probably more colorful I would imagine

RE: SOG Service
 

The man who stated we had no one zero school in 68 is also accurate for Omega and even early CCS until about March or April of 69. Frankly, when I came back to CCS from the northern launch site at Duc Co about 10-12 Apr 69 for the 3 shop, no one told me we had a recon school that consisted of running local OPS. I would think the asst S-3 should know that, especially when the two asst S-3's were told to send HF's in to exploit targets or bail out a team in trouble. Perhaps, they thought I knew?

Anyway, I was on the staff for the first 56 days, then had 2nd company Omega for about six months, then went to the northern launch site to take Frank Lambert's job at his request, plus a few others, and; I spent all of a whopping14 days in the 3 shop before being medivaced. I am proud that we never lost a recon man when I was with the FAC and during my time up north from Duc Lap to Duc Co. It was not my job to question a 10 on the ground, as one cannot judge a firefight from an O-2. The man on the ground is always the one, who knows his situation best. Having two teams in contact at once stretched the air assets and the 20th SOS got them out after we figured out which team to support/ pull first and how to get gunships to get to the other team ASAP. I saw pilots fly a team back to Duc Co with a bullet through their shoulder, plus a number of shot up birds.

I look back at the recon men we had in mid 68 to early 69, and; most 10's were senior NCO's with at least two tours. We had our own legends in Omega like FOB2 and CCN had.

After the 24 April 69 HF OP into COSVN and even before, we knew the OPS down south west of the fishook were tough.

Basically, I like to keep in touch with the men from Omega/CCS, plus some of the other C&C men I know from the Kontum and DaNang HQ's and those I served with later. I have met a number of CCN recon men whom I consider friends. We put a few CCN teams in from our northern and southern launch sites in 68- early 69.

I do not understand this statement. I went through the One-Zero course, called the Recon Team Leader Course, in Nov 68 after being assigned to CCS. And there were individuals on teams that had been through the course before me because I received a run down on the course and told what to expect from members on other teams.

[QUOTE=incommin;228149]Fact: We had no CCS in Nov 68.

Fact: MSG Bull D,. was recon platoon leader until -8/16/68. He went to Nhon Co a Team Daddy.

Fact: 1LT Curtis, a prior SFC Ranger School Mountain instructor took over recon on 08/16/68. Curtis made Recon train on rigs and ladders south of camp.

Fact: Next came another friend, Harrison.. He was on the ground with Hughes and Franks in T-51 when Flemming was put in for CMH 26 Nov 68 or so.

Fact: Recon had no one zero school unless one calls rope ladder and rig training a school or went to MACV Recondo or went out with a senior NCO 10 in 68.

Fact: Ortman comes to CCS from Sigma. Gets hit with bullet in WP grenade and gets burned badly.

Fact: I never saw recon run a single local OP in mid 68 to late 68 from June 68 to 12/31.68..



Perhaps, I was asleep.

alright4u, all I know is I arrived at Ban Me Thuot in Sept 1968. My orders read SOA (CCS). The Omega sign was down and leaning against a wall near the supply shed. I attended a course called the Recon Team Leaders Course at the RECONDO school. And by 11 November I was running with SFC Ellis as my One Zero on RT Nail. I do not remember a LT Curtis. I remember Harrison and a bull dog of a Major (who's name escapes me for the moment). I do not remember any drills or training around the camp except for the immediate action drills individual teams practiced.

I remember Hughes and Franks and several others who ran recon. I too do not remember any recon team running a local recon or patrol. The LLDB ran a few. And some of the security people ran a few. I only remember the recon teams working across or near border operations.

I did not mean to jerk your chain or start a food fight. If you say I was assigned to Omega when I arrived in Sept 69, I'll say, whatever......

TY
 

Yes, We had the MACV Recondo School then. That was the only school for recon until about early 69 when the new S-3 came in. The NCO's I stay in touch with and see at SOAR tell me that after I went to the launch site, the new S-3 and others started and in country recon program at CCS.

I am not up on all the details of it, as I was only in the CCS compound one night in 69 when Major Anonsen, senior FAC flew me back. Then , in April of 69, about the 10th or 12th, I was called back to BMTE as a CPT with a First Cav patch needed command time.

As to the Major you decribed- the NCO's call him - "The Dancing Bear." I stay away from war stories and like the funny stuff. I worked for that Major for about two weeks. A 4th ID full Bull BDE CO and his S-2 Major arrived at Duc Co. The Major was doing one handed pushups. The Col looks at him like he is crazy. Next the Col ask the launch site NCOIC who runs this place. The senior NCO from OKI on TDY pointed away from the "Dancing Bear."

All,

I checked my resources on this one (Saal, Hardy, Stanton, Plaster, Sutherland) and came up with the following:

Omega and Sigma were formed at the same time 8/66

Omega was at FOB2 Camp Reno, Kontum, until it moved to FOB5 Ban Me Thuot in 1967; Omega ran its first mission 9/66; Omega brought its RT names from FOB2 to FOB5 and they remained during CCS

Sigma was at FOB 6 Ho Ngoc Tau until it moved to Ban Me Thout 11/68; Sigma RTs were numbered like Delta until the move to Ban Me Thuot

Omega and Sigma moved from E Co, 5th SFG to MACVSOG C&C 11/67 with assignment then through Special Operations Augmentation, 5th SFG

Omega and Sigma became CCS 11/68

Long Thanh was opened 7/61 and Kham Duc 9/63

Long Thanh was used as training center and then as SOG B-53 training center beginning 6/65 for Shining Brass Ops

Kham Duc was used to train Road Watch teams, reaction force, MLS for Shining Brass Ops (began 10/65 until 1967); it developed a RT training center beginning 65 and was known variously as 1-0 school, C&C school, SOG Recon school, jungle school until it closed 67 and all SOG RT training was then with B-53

There was a lot of confusion for several years as the various projects were formed, moved, and then merged as lines of C&C were developed

Richard :munchin

SIGMA RT's were numbered
 

Arrived in B-56 (SIGMA), August 66 and assigned to team #1 as Team Leader (One Zero). Numbers were used till sometime in late 67 to early 68. We (RT's) then became tools. Axe, Hammer, Saw, etc.
One Zero school was in progress during the early 68 time frame. I departed RVN in May 68.



AXE
Early in the morning before the sun would rise, walked 4 indige and 2 round eyes. You could'nt hear a sound not even a squeak. They knew their (9dits +1 dah) was weak. RECON

Thread resurrection
 

I attended SOAR XXXV last month in Vegas. Next year it wil be in October. Let's get some old guys out there and you younger guys, too!! Theres' been a regime change in SOA, and it's for the better. SOAR's a great time. Come on out.

BTW, Plaster calls me a Chase Medic in his last book in the episode about the Bright Light mission for Fat Albert. For the record, I wasn't, or ever have been a medic. I was at the launch site with my team, RT Alabama, waiting to launch and went with the BL as an extra gun.

1

Sorry I couldn't make it this year. Hope to be there for the next one.

Take care.
Martin
SOA #150-GL

I could not put John Plaster's book Secret Commandos down once I started reading it. I have nothing but the utmost of respect for those of you who were a part of SOG. I have nothing but contempt for a government that allowed the NVA the troop and equipment pipelines thru Cambodia and Laos into South Vietnam, how many of our guys were lost because of our lack of an active all out campaign in those countries? The losses alone to the members of SOG were staggering and the blood of those men will forever be on the hands of the politicians who were calling the shots. To all of you who have posted to this thread Thank You!! And God Bless You!! The following is a link that I have visited many times it has in many cases put a face to the name of of one of our fallen warriors and at the very least told their story.

www.virtualwall.org/u-army/macv-sog.htm

LRB

Re: Sec.
 

You are doing a fine job.

Here's a BUMP to an old link in here, that will open a few eyes for MANY, that think that they understand.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ad.php?t=15653




Later!!
Martin

I graduated from Recondo School in February '68. Then I was assigned to the Third Mobile Strike Force Ccommand (B-36) as a Team Leader (1-0)!

Mike

Thank you SOA warriors
 

Gentlemen of the SOAs, 5th SFG(Abn), 1st SF, I am working on a case of a downgraded Medal of Honor nomination and I have noticed a couple of other very similar cases in doing research. These are cases that involve downgraded Medal of Honors to Distinguished Service Crosses.

I know that there are cases of Medals of Honors downgraded to Silver Stars, but because of the lack of record keeping on Silver Stars, I have not been able to track many of these.

My particular interest has evolved from one case of a downgraded Medal of Honor nomination of a friend of mine, to what appears to be a pattern of downgraded medals for SOA warriors. I believe this can be attributed to the classification of missions, the misunderstanding of SOG operations in the Vietnam conflict by the Regular Army with the odds that you stood against, and the political climate at the time most especially 1970 forward.

Do any of you SOA warriors know if Sgt. James N. Pruitt and SSgt. Gary Michael Rose are still living, and are you in contact with them?

I am hoping to get Congressional support for an insertion of legislation similar to that in the 1996 National Defense Authorization Act, inserted into the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act. If not 2013, then I will keep trying. When this can be achieved, it could be beneficial to them and other SOA warriors of the Vietnam era.

I would greatly appreciate any assistance that members of the MACSOG(MACV-SOG) SOAs may be able to provide. And thank you for your incredible service above and beyond what most people realize.

Information on Sgt.James N. Pruitt & S/Sgt.M. Rose
 

According to Stephen Sherman' list of "Who WAS Who" from Special Forces, SOG, SFA, SOA, S/Sgt. James M. Pruitt of Winston-Salem,NC 27127-9083 was born 5/14/1945 DIED 1/04/2007..
I do not know S/Sgt. Gary Michael Rose and have no info on him. your best contact would be Steve Sherman XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Good Luck, Tom Kelly

I’m very sorry to hear about Sgt. James Pruitt, thank you for letting me know. SSgt. Gary M. Rose was a Medic with SOA(CCC) in and around 1970. Below are links to their DSC citations:

SSgt. Gary M. Rose
http://militarytimes.com/citations-m...cipientid=4565

Sgt. James N. Pruitt
http://militarytimes.com/citations-medals-awards/recipient.php?recipientid=5520

Contact the Special Operations Association - a simple web search will help.

Richard

Has anyone had any luck with the National Archives in researching MACSOG and the SOA missions? I have been searching for actual mission briefs and AARs for a particular mission. I had been told that these were mixed in with 5th Group Vietnam records, no luck so far. I’ve been told by others that those details are not there, but in different places if they still exist.

I did find this information on-line, approximately 2,000 pages of declassified material from the Vietnam Conflict. It is on the Department of Defense website. About half way down the list are a number of SOG documents.

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/Internat...asiaDocuments/

I should also mention that the JFK Special Warfare Museum at Bragg is currently finishing a MACV-SOG exhibit. I saw it in the beginning stages, it is definitely worth going to see.

Thanks Richard, I have some contacts there, will do.

Re: AAR's.
 

I can only state that all Omega and CCS cross border OPS AAR's were destroyed. In fact, the first CCS CO was stationed in the Pentagon from June 69-72 or so. He went to look up something for a friend. He was shocked that all our AAR's were missing.

Thank you.
 

Just wanted to tell all of you thank you for all that you did. If any of you are ever in Colorado Springs, hit me up. I would love to have a beer with you in honor of all those who never returned.

MACV-SOG Roll Call
 

http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/jfq_pubs/1823.pdf

BMT

Thanks BMT for the links, both here and on the other post. Some I had found, and some I had not. I have been pouring over them. The paper http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/jfq_pubs/1823.pdf by Richard H Shultz, Jr. particularly outlines the roots of the misunderstanding of SOG by the Chain of Command and the frustrations the warriors of SOG must have experienced in dealing with them. Myself and others feel this misunderstanding of SOG was one reason so many medals and awards were downgraded, the conventional elements of the military simply had no idea who you were and what you were doing.

One thing I had to do for the effort I am working on is confirm what I’ve been told about the original AARs of SOG, to a level at which it could be specifically cited. Sadly, I can now cite the original AARs are gone. Any references to actual missions are going to be in the SOG Command Histories and MACSOG weekly reports to CINCPAC. The first are only declassed in parts and the latter have not been seen since the war. Both would only have summaries, and lack most detail. I do now know, that what I am looking for is in Annex B of the 1970 MACSOG Command History, and of course it is in the pages that have not been declassed. But it would only be a summary.

The mission I am researching was one of approximately 200 platoon sized Prairie Fire Exploitation Force missions conducted during the war, resulting in contact with what is reported to be elements of the 66th NVA Regiment(unconfirmed), an Arc-light of the area, and follow-up BDA by RT Washington. RT Washington was also hit hard on the BDA that followed (with the loss of Sgt. George Curtis Green).

Using the information gained I have been able to locate the area of action of the Exploitation Force action to within a 15 square km area (around grid 48PYB6449). The Army wants maps and diagrams so I was able to provide a map of the area and make diagrams from original witness statements. I’m also working with interpreting some of the DoD Regs and US Code that would concern this effort, but that is another matter.

So thank you again, and I am listening to anything you all can tell me. I am particularly interested in any information of the early December 2-5? 1970 mission of RT Washington and what they found on the BDA. I would very much like to confirm what the exploitation force had encountered just before RT Washington.

Ken Bute MACV-SOG
 

Moved out to the midwest in January and joined the ski patrol at a local hill. On my first day, I was asked about my background and mentioned being in SF. I then was introduced to a fellow patroller whose Dad was MACV-SOG in Vietnam. My buddy's Dad and his Mom met in Vietnam and Ken Bute brought his wife, daughter, and son back to the US. Unfortunately, I did not have a chance to meet Ken (he passed away last year). I did find his pic online from "back in the day" and spoke with someone who went through SFQC with him.
Small world.

macvsog RVN vs Current crop
 

Last visit to Bragg was for the PUC ceremony Apr 2001 just prior to GWOT. Good to see faces from the past. Current crop of SF operators seemed bigger, faster, and maybe smarter than we were. But at that time 9/11 had not created the fast pace optempo wear and tear that exists today. The current crop are as good if not better than we were. We are all in the same gene pool, there should not be a sense of superiority.

De Oppresso Liber

At this point in life, seems like everyone is bigger, faster and smarter that I am :)

All,

This has been some of the best 45 minutes of reading I have ever had. I have been so grateful to SF for along time but to read this thread, in its entirety, is chilling. I'm glad I found this thread as I have read many. Our country owes so much to all of you. I have read many books on 1966 to 1969 (Meyer, Donahue, Nicholson,Miller, Rottman) and will know turn my reading to Plasters SOG, Secret Commandos and Stolen Valor. ( any suggestions on the sequence ?)

Thanks to Ambush Master for some guidance that I needed to date.

FOB #2 / CCC 1966,67,68
 

Sgm Edward Thatcher. E-5/6 at the time at FOB2. Worked in commo bunker with SFC Butrim, SFC Thompson. While I was there I knew Squirill Sprouse, Snake Adams, Howard, Zabakoski, Terry, Goodhue, Musselman, and many others. Mad Dog Shiver was they for a short while with his monkey. Have some pictures. Just moved Nov 2012 to Navarre FL near Eglin and the 7th SFGA.

Gentlemen,

By chance did any of you MACV-SOG warriors serve with SGT James N. Pruit? Could you tell me which RT he was with, and any details of the 17 July 1969 POW snatch mission on which he was nominated for the Medal of Honor? Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks much!

JYD, I have no information for you but share your want for info....On 17 July 1969...James Pruit not only performed a prisoner Snatch but performed 2 snatches...unfortunately both were "silenced" during the attack. "Sergeant Pruitt threw his own body against the prisoner of war in an effort to prevent his death. ""However, the numerically superior enemy force gained fire superiority and seriously wounded Sergeant Pruitt and silenced their captured comrade." There was no mention of what RT. I share your thirst for knowledge. I have read many books but cannot find more info.

LMC

Don't know the RT he was with. He talked to my phase III class in depth about that mission (but I've forgotten a lot). His 1-1 was Buck Buchanan and after he (Pruit) was evaced because of his wounds (eviseration, collapased lung, right ear partially detached, and a 7.62 through one foot) Donnie Powers replaced him as the 1-0. The 7.62 wound was inflicted by gunships making East/West and North/South runs on their postion prior to a slick dropping a Mcguire rig for extract.

Hope this helps.

was that Ralph (BUCK) Buchanan? If so look at http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...=47009460...he mentions Vietnam

Sorry, L don't know. Never met the man.
DDD

Negative. There were Kyle R., Larry D., and Michael D., but no Ralph in SOG.

Thanks for the info, I will try looking into the Buchanan and Powers route. No bit of information is too small, as it generally leads to new avenues of research. I will be FOIA ing SSGT Pruitts MoH packet sometime soon, but I know that will not contain the RT team. Unfortunately the location of action will only read "deep in enemy occupied territory" as well. His MoH packet is one of only three that were downgraded and are fully contained in the National Archives. Hopefully(fingers crossed) there will be legislation this spring going into the NDAA to waive the time limit and provide a route for review to upgrade these and other MACV-SOG and Special Operations time sensative medals and awards. I'm headed back to DC in March to work on gathering more support for this legislative effort, which is 1/2 of the battle. Never thought I'd be a lobbyist, but apparently now I am, sort of. The other half will be preparing packets for the actual reviews themselves through the Army, and SSGT Pruitts mission has the least information available. So thanks much for even the smallest bits of information!

Hope you all have a Merry Christmas!

MACV-SOG P.U.C.
 

Has anyone had trouble getting PUC put on DD 214? St Louis said to go through Board of Corrections. I filed their forms and submitted the packet last year. I just got their decision and they have denied including the PUC on DD 214 because my records reflect assignment to SOACCN. My records show no affiliation with MACV-SOG. I had sent them all orders to and from CCN. I also included the GO for the PUC. How did others get the PUC into their official file. I am retired, no pressing reason, other than the pride of being recognized by any future ancestors.

J R sends
De Oppresso Liber