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- Special Forces Fieldcraft (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=65)

- - Pace Count (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=446)

Oops, the link didn't work. Sorry! :o Try this one:

http://www.special-operations-techno...cfm?DocID=1611

I have a nav disaster story , its a little sad but damn did I learn a lot that night , I was doing a recce course in Nanaimo British Columbia , and if anybody has ever been to BC they know how thick that bush can be especially at night , not to mention it was January so the rainfall was pretty solid , haha and I have to throw in the fact that it was logging season too so lots of fallen wet trees , anyways it was non tactical so i used my white light to bounce around in the bush crossing streams that were up to my neck in icy cold water , also a few swamps , I dont know how the Radio on my back didnt drown me I was doing well for time finding 3 out of 4 points that night on the last point i was more then halfway to my last point where i had to cross a very active river for the 4th time that night i braced myself to be dipped in it one more time as the underwater rocks were slippery as hell , sure as hell ended up on my ass chugging water , picked myself up crossed the 30 ft river and came out the other side to do a map recce , to my shock my map fell out in the damn river , I couldnt not believe it , all I had was my compass and the approx count of paces i had left till my destination , i went on for another 500 m to find that last point , as i did that i radioed in that i found all points but lost the map and needed directions to get back to the patrol base , instructors werent amused , needless to say I didnt get the pass that day and what kind of patrolman loses a map anyways , lessons learned the hard way gentleman and learned a lot about myself that night when i was down but not out

- tie off everything that is essential before any water crossing
- Pace beads are great for keeping count

Underwater paceing

To add to sdiver basically kick stroke. In this one must have a hundred meter line and swim it many times to develope a kickstroke average. it will alway be affected by currents and tides. Tank volume works for most of us because we swim enough to know about how far we can get on a full tank or two or Draeger. Pace count works best in harbors and such where it is necessary to do Dog legs to an insertion or target site. IE: 300 meters of XX azimuth 45 degrees right turn for 150 meters, then another Right turn for300 meters to a target. Pace in this cercumstance is critical. Blitz:munchin

All variables matter in subsurface navigation, especially at night. Those who know, already know...

...but it does correlate with land nav. Compass, map, pace, orienteering, etc. ...it all matters. Proficiency in every aspect of the skills that are involved is what makes or breaks an individual at "crunch time"... when doubt seeps into the minds of those who are in "over their head".

(forgive the pun)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valhal (Post 3916)

Thanks Team Sergeant,

Here is a scenario. You are in a jungle or heavy forested area and you can not see terrain features at a distance. You shoot your azimuth, and you start moving out. The terrain differences are subtle and make it hard to know exactly where you are at. The distance on the map from point A to point B is ten km as a bird flies. Question is you have numerous elevation changes, how do you determine walking distance?

Thanks,
Mark

1968, West of Song Be, Inserted into a very small LZ at last light. Moved to a RON and moved again 20 meters away for the real RON. At first light, did a leaders recon and couldn't determine where I was. It was triple canopy with thick under brush every where. Found a stream with a fork about 100 meters away but the stream wasn't on my map sheet.

Waited until the noon contact and called the O1E. He flew circles around where we were supposed to be, but I couldn't hear him. I finally climbed a tall tree and called for an arty round. (WP 50 meter height-of-burst). Round was fired but not observed or heard.

I ordered another round with an add 1000 on the gun-target line. Luckily, I spotted this round way off to the South-East. I added 500 and shifted right 500. From the two azimuths that I shot, I resected and had my location.

I was almost two kilometers away from where I was supposed to have been inserted and across the fence. We spent four days moving back to RVN and an LZ. There is value in having a compass.

Called the O1E to see if he could get a location from my signal mirror. He was tied up on another team in contact.

About the only thing we use GPS units for during our domestic land nav classes is to measure / verify distance. Backstops, terrain association, handrails, and offset navigation are probably the best things a new nav student can learn. A word of real caution on GPS systems is to always check your topo map and set your GPS for the correct map datum. We failed to do this on one course and a student just had to "verify " where we were with his GPS. It showed we we were a few hundred meters north of where we KNEW we were. We forgot about the GPS and finished the course out with map and compass without a problem.

I have low jungle topo maps of South America that are just one big green blob with contour lines inches apart and maybe a river running through. No backstops, handrails and forget about any type of offset navigation unless you're headed towards the river. We will sometimes use a GPS to get an initial fix on the topo after coming upriver to our jump-off point then it's dead reckoning and pace count to get to our targets. Jungle can be some wicked stuff to navigate, especially secondary jungle. Give me the easy movement of Primary jungle any day.

Great stories.

Had to bump.

S