Numbers
 

Okay 18 Charlies number three - name the below on this munition.

Name the following:
1) Type by function
2) Safety Hazards
3) What weapon "fires" this warhead.
4) Type and name of Fuze.
5) BIP method?

PIN/gt/359 7 days wait out for others :boohoo

Unless they are doing UXO in Haiti, you gotta make these a bit more difficult.

What, are you using the pics out of your lesson plans?:D

TR

One is or was... Them other are training aid or FOI :D

UXO Four
 

Okay since TR popped the back of my head. So I see we don't like some WWII (Haiti).

Had to get home and get one of my PIX cards out. Its all Good TR.. Nothing but growning pain - weakness leaving the body. :D

So 18 Charlies here is number four. :munchin

Diddo- name the below on this munition.
1) Type by function
2) Safety Hazards
3) What is the Munition (UXO) and what weapon "fires" this UXO.
4) Type and name of Fuze.
5) BIP method?

Hey, the 18Cs had this stuff in class, and are getting smoked by O's, squids, and civilians who have never had a class on it.

You had to do better than a bazooka round if you want the riffraff like us to stay out of it while you challenged the Charlies.:rolleyes:

TR

Well TR looks like they can't answer any of these PIX. You are right, its sad to see a new 18C just getting ready to Grad this week, some O's (most are RET) and a Civillian getting them all. Most just by googling, and that's good.

Look 18Cs you are getting walked on all over. Set up to the plate.

18C knowing what is in front of you and how to get close to it. Then knowing how to get rid of it is what we are trying to cover here. Look its more that just setting some C4 next to most things that are found. You may be training and have to do tis in a country that you are visiting.
18C just like the rest of us, you have to teach your ODA and others in your basic skills that you know or will know soon. Look in most countries you are looked at as a EOD TECH.

Lets try this one

Well, I've been abiding by the 7-day wait period. It might just be the angle, but the two UXOs look to be similar but not the same - the new picture looks to be longer overall, with an elongated ogive. If they are the same, I'm already sure I'm wrong. My answer for the first one:

1. 90mm projectile, anti-armor HE Squash-Head shell (M691). Intended to blow the interior of an armor plate loose as killing fragments without necessarily penetrating the armor directly.

2. HE/FRAG/MOVE/EMR/STATIC/FIRE/LUCKY/JET.

3. Unexpended shell from a M691A2 HESH round. Fired by 90mm cannon. Not sure when this round was introduced, or when (or if) it was retired. Lots of things have fired 90 mm over the years, back (at least) as far as the M1 Anti-aircraft Gun in WW2. The M48A3 tank, Light Armored Vehicle-Assault Gun (LAV-AG), M67 90-mm recoilless rifle, and M56 Scorpion self-propelled Antitank Gun all used 90 mm.

4. Impact or graze fuze. Have not found an part number.

5. I can google links to FMs for EOD, but they all require more than my email-only AKO. So I'm stuck with "set C4 next to it" and "shoot from a distance to trigger the impact fuze."

Good Job Pinhead - Man the Civilian getting this again. :boohoo

In gerenal this rocket is fire from Mult-Barrel Rocket Launcher (MBRL) and most have 12 Tubes that are in rows of 3-4 tube "sets".

Type by Function: Chinese RKT, 107MM, HE-FRAG (TNT)
Safety: Ejection, EMR, FRAG, HE, PROX, STATIC
Fuze: Typically these have a PD, Type 3 Fuze, they can have a ceremic Fuze that is MP1(A). No LUCKY/JET with this UXO. But its better safe than sorry. :eek:
Attack (Disposal): Warhead with C4, some say counter-force.

Okay if the "ammunition" used with the MBRL is the Rocket which consists of one piece a warhead is attached to the rocket motor and has a fixed amount of propellant is contained in the rocket motor.

What additional do you need to worry about while disposing this UXO with this precaution above?

You are going to want to hit both the warhead and the rocket motor with seperate charges so that both are destroyed and you aren't left with one piece of UXO now in 2 parts. One other thought. Is there is a risk of the rocket propellent igniting sending the UXO in whatever direction?

Good gtcrispy - You'll need at least 2 Pkgs of C4.

Yes I can happen, just as in horseshoes and hand Gernades. 2.75 style RKT that happens more than this Chinesse style of RKT. Meaning that the 2.75 RKT have the Warhead and the Motor are two seperate parts. Typically you have to screw the motor and warheads together or they come this way. These 107 to 120mm RKTs they are made all "together" in one "tube".

Thats why you have your Safe EVAC distance or FRAG Distance to CAL out by your Type by Fillers of the UXO.

Thank you, but it looks like I was pretty far off.

I identified an American 90mm artillery shell, when it was actually a Chinese 107mm rocket. About all I got was that it's bigger than small-arms, spin-stabilzed, and HE.

I don't mind kudos, but I prefer to earn them. :lifter

You get the KUDOS (man those can be some good candy bars too) becuase you tried, and thats what we want - An SF-Wannabe that will try!! Hell I can't get any of the 18Cs to drop a dine to try to get these.

Plus Pinhead you did nail everything if it was a 90mm ARTY Rd. Look at it this way, your not "Trained" and you did get the Safety Hazards for both of the UXOs. More than needed, but you covered them all. Is this wrong, yes but what it does is SOMEtimes make you WORK more in the long run. But you got it (90mm) right.

Maybe we need to start a CAL PLACE or TO Thread in the 18C Section.

But you Tried PinHead! :lifter

Another way not to do it, is to shoot the motor, with a Barret, we might have learned this one the hard way. (That sucker hit the ravine wall and shot straight up. I have no idea where it ended up) :D

...then what is this?
 

It should be an easy one.

Nozzle, 1ea, 122mm Rocket!!

LOL Loved to have saw that Video MAX_TAB :D :munchin

Since no one answered, it is a picture of the ass end of a 107 mm rocket.

The rocket landed right outside the wire, and that was all that was left of it.

Wow, excellent thread. Anyone want to kick one off for the 18 bravos?;)

UXO five
 

Okay Charlie' here is number five.

Name the below on these UXOs.
1) Type by function of UXOs.
2) Safety Hazards for them.
3) BIP method?
4) How do you Charlie's move these UXO for Disposal?

Not sure of 1-3, but number 4 I would say they probable had them loaded up in a Jenga truck and then just dumped them in a hole.

As an 18B/18D-
1. too many bombs to count, probably unstable, although most look unfused - rely on Charlie's great knowledge
2. they go BOOM, and throw little pieces of shrapnel at high velocity, long distances - Charlie knows more than I do - defer to him
3. Stay away unless the Charlie asks for assistance
3. Make sure M-5 Bag is handy
3. Tie Uili knots, measure Det cord, measure time fuse, open and cut C4 if asked
3. keep eyes and ears open for BGs, rifle at ready
4. Make sure there is Medevac standing by, in case Charlie makes a mistake

MAX_TAB

I'll wait out on answering that one.

18Cs is MAX_TAB Right? Can you 18 Series move those UXOs?

Yes? No? Why or Why Not?

Wow, that's a lot. As the man said, there are too many for counting to be worthwhile (in most circumstances).

1. A whole mess of spin-stablized rockets. I'm going to assume that most or all of them are high explosive. (Hard to say if it's lighting, fading paint, or if there are yellow casings in that pile of ODs.)

2. HE / FRAG for sure. I'd assume STATIC / EM / MOVE are hazards also. Most appear to be unfuzed, not that it makes the HE payload less dangerour. That much clustered together, get people way the hell away.

3. I'll leave it to the experts, until I get trained to be one.

4. Bulldozer? Dump truck? I'm curious to hear the story here.

Now that is Funny LOL :D

There not Rockets - let see if the current 18C Class can chime in.

HE/ FRAG Only, well I guess you can throw in MOVE. But, only becuase there all just thrown on the ground. Got to look for those nasty TANGOs that can go BOOM as X_SF_Med said.

Covering those ears, I don't think that will work. :eek:

I think maybe I need to ask how far away you should be. But lets not go there - OPSEC guys. Just the basics here. How do you blow this pile O' Shyt


Wait out and see what the expects say here.

Truth can be funny!! Hell, it's been way too long since I did any UXO clearing - that was the best short answer I could come up with, except I forgot to add under 3.a. - and approach only with great trepidation, wondering why I'm being asked to help when there are 2 damn Charlie's on the team (well, there are 2 Deltas on the team too) and who the hell I pissed off to get chosen.

Understood, laying low.

:D

Well we are all shooters right. Then why do the 18Bs always run the ranges. Should everyone on the ODA do that. Things never change do they. I can do IVs and my ABCDEs too. Get me in a Trauma line and lets see how well I do.

How long do we have to wait before someone answers? I'm getting really curious about the answers. I still think they were in a truck and haji just backed up and threw them out.

MT

I bet your right about that and the pile. I'll give it till next Friday. With the 4th and the weekend, guys are gone for the 4-day.

You are tracking on the one you answered. Just looking to see what 18Cs think or better know.

Okay got some hits on this one. Where are the current Charlies at??

Pinhead got one right, at least he answered.

Max_Tab hit on moving these UXOs. So here is the break down of what is answered so far. Yes you can read, but hey once again where are the Charlies??

1) Type by function of UXOs. Type- (PROJOs) So what kind are here?

Does it matter, no not really (WHY) but it helps and your Blast/Frag SDZ CAL. Why 18Cs does UXO Type (By Name) for your SDZ??

2) Safety Hazards for them. Function -Pinhead got these

HE/ FRAG, Like I said you can throw in MOVE.

Why do these matter - Saftey Hazards that is.

3) BIP method? Need an answer here?

You have multi UXOs (Ordnance) throw in a pile. So how do we Blow these In Place (BIP). Can we??

4) How do you Charlie's move these UXO for Disposal? So can 18 Series move these UXOs?? WHY?

Seven (7) Day wait out here.

Okay, I guess I'll give it a shot.

Looks like a stack of artillery projos, I would guess 122mm or 152mm. Most appear to be unfused or have had the fuzes removed. That means that they are safe to handle. Any with fuzes remaining are potential explosive frag hazards. This looks like a clean-up dump point. As they are right now, this is an IED bomber's treasure trove, enough stuff there to keep him in business for years.

Once you have verified the rounds are HE, as they appear to be (don't want to create a nice Sarin clowd or even just a bunch of WP starting wildfires), the unfuzed ones can be removed and laid out in rows for destruction. If the area was safe and destruction in place were desired, you could, with a lot of hassle, risk of some flying away, and probably some missed rounds, place C-4 on each round you could reach, dual prime, and BIP.

Personally, I would prefer to put them in rows for better management, place M-112 charge blocks of C-4 across the rounds and prime normally. I would be cautious as it would be very simple to have set this up as an EOD killer with either a command detonated or boobytrapped round underneath witing for the team to arrive. It does look abandoned though.

Any with fuzes could be any of a variety of arty fuzes, most likely impact. Once laid out, the MSD would be that of the arty rounds, unless the Net Explosive Weight of the shot exceeded the arty MSD. I would go with the further of these two numbers.

You can safely move the unfuzed rounds by any means desired, to include a bucket loader or a mule.

If possible, I would BIP any of the rounds that still had fuzes.

HTH.

TR

Okay first off, Damn Charlies WTF. U have a Ret QP telling you how to do your JOB. I thought you were the ones that are to tell the O's how to do the Eng stuff. Well, at least advise them on their (ENG) decisions; so were are you at here?

Off the rant

TR pretty good. :lifter

Type by funtcion:

Yes, they are a mixture of projectiles (105mm to 122mm to 155mm). First thing I see is no fuzes in the ordnance as pointed out by Pin and TR. So we have HE, FRAG- Safety hazard. By the color marking you can't tell if the turely are HE rds - WHY is this?? Look at it as if they had a payload ("Baseballs & Golfballs"(BLU 63) or ejection rounds (Illum) you may have a fire / WP Safety Hazard. Keep in mind that your safeties (SH) would be IAW the payload encountered within the pile. None in this one as far as we can see.

Yes you have to keep in I would also be concerned with potential booby-traps depending on situation and location. If you find them in a pile in the open to stacked in a room inside a building. Remember Booby-traps. Once BT is ruled out you could move everything to a SDA.

Charlies, no good answer on if you can move them. Yes we have how we would move these UXOs. But I want to know if you can, are 18 Series allowed to move, authorized to move a UXO, ETC.

If so, WHY or why NOT.

Disposal of Pile or UXOs.
Depending on the size of the disposal area you have or can set up, you could lay them out stacked 3 high depending on the room you have. Best to trench out an area to place these UXOs into. Keeping any WP / Illum will be placed in to the middle or on top to be blown up and expend all of the WP etc... as opposed to blowing it in the ground - not what you want to happen. WP keep in mind also that it "flies" out about 200 to 400 meters. HOT!! C-4 arcoss the tops, dual primed, and watch the fire works for a good SD for the FRAG distance.:p

What is the K-factor here?
Pinhead - good job... MAX_TAB ??'s answered??

Mtngoat - I still like my answer best - but with no answers from C's (besides you) I'm wondering if I need to go back in as a C (think I could still do the job? I've already done the Q 2x and NBC school)

You know they always say that there are more 18B and C within Groups. I'm starting to think this 18X thing is filling the ranks and the 18Cs are out numbered now. :)

Moving an UXO- Can we??
 

[QUOTE=MtnGoat]Okay got some hits on this one. Where are the current Charlies at??

4) How do you Charlie's move these UXO for Disposal? So can 18 Series move these UXOs?? WHY?


SO no answer on can we, 18 Series, move an UXO??

MtnGoat-
It seems as if all of the Charlies are on leave or deployed at the moment. Or they are just scared that they're going to get it wrong, and are afraid of the wrath of the Goat falling down upon their heads.

IMVHO - they probably could be moved, if there was a possibility that BIP would create a hazard to indig civ pop, or local action - if it could be proved that all the WH were unfuzed and stable. Common sense says that if possible, BIP as long as no chem, WP, or bomblet capabilities are discovered. SF probably should not move them, unless they have access to trucks and a lot of manpower - from a correct use of manpower perspective, it's not the right thing to do.

I was both a bullet and a doc, and got out before some of the current Charlie's were born - therefore, my opinion is about as useful as a pimple on a gnat's ass - and carries about the same weight.

USASOC 385-1 Chp 8
 

Well I think that you maybe right on the 18Cs beening deployed.

Seems like I forgot to post if you can move a UXO.

As per USASOC Reg 385-1 Chp 8, Section 8-7. the answer is

NO

You can not move a UXO. When can you destruction of a UXO munitions?

Combat? Peacetime?

I’ll take a stab...

18 Series: only in designated hazardous duty operations, in peacetime (and I read that as not in a combat zone) call EOD. Let me know Goat!


I do recall working with (and this is no Sh!t) a Polish Engineer Company to clear an area for their BN compound in Kosovo. It was formerly a large Serbian AA gun emplacement and the zoomies dropped every kind of ordinance they had on it. The place was covered in UXO, we originally called in an EOD team but when they looked at it they said it would take them a year to clear it and we should move somewhere else. We cleared it in less than 2 weeks :eek: ...it was the scariest yet most amusing event I think I ever took part of! We sure did go thru lots of demo:cool: …I think we used up the Pol-Bats whole allotment for the entire deployment.