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frostfire 02-07-2017 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter (Post 623788)

Don’t buy into our own propaganda. We are no better or worse than any other powerful country that has ever existed. No one is “good” or “evil”; we do things because it it’s a rough world out there and we look after our own interests, and do what’s best for the United States.

Solid post, Sir. Makes it easy to do "business" without taking anything personal, for we would likely do similar (or worse) response in their shoes.

I believe interests do coincide, and there's that happy non-zero-sum medium where what's best for the US also benefits the world (or most of the world).

I must be a true believer in American exceptionalism then. The US of A is not a country or collection of people to me, but an idea. A powerful, yet fragile idea. This idea is very young compared to centuries of past dynasties, empire, kingdoms. Espousing that idea in some parts of the world today would get one killed or worse. I believe in it as it aligns with Judeo-Christian values. I would die for that belief.

....then again, dying for pushing LGBYTXZ agenda for the rest of the world is a concept hard to swallow, no pun intended :boohoo
https://www.wsj.com/articles/preside...ech-1437820696

scooter 02-08-2017 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostfire (Post 623844)
I believe interests do coincide, and there's that happy non-zero-sum medium where what's best for the US also benefits the world (or most of the world).

I must be a true believer in American exceptionalism then. The US of A is not a country or collection of people to me, but an idea. A powerful, yet fragile idea. This idea is very young compared to centuries of past dynasties, empire, kingdoms.

I believe in American Exceptionalism. Our nation is one of the only places where you aren't permanently defined by your parent's social status or where you were born. The son of an African immigrant can become the President of the United States. If you work hard and apply yourself, you can be anything you want. We have, mostly, adopted a system of universal rights that cannot be constrained by the government and view national power as a thing best spread out, in order to protect the people. We have a firmly entrenched view that people have the right to be left alone for the most part, although that is under pressure at the moment. The United States is the most welcoming, open, generally free nation on earth. We are a productive and industrious people that invented the machine gun, telephone, television, airplane, nuclear power, the internet, the smart phone, the automobile... the modern world was literally created and invented by our nation due to the freedom to own and profit from what you invent.

We also did all that other stuff I mentioned...

Of course, so did the French, British, Germans, Belgians, Spanish, Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Turks, Arabs, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Visigoths, Huns, Mongols.... I could go on. Every nation seeks to spread its culture and organizing system, whether by influence or by force. We can bring a lot of force to bear, so we've been pretty good at it. Japan isn't a market democracy by choice or because we convinced them it was in their best interest. They are a market democracy because we slaughtered all of their young men, crushed their will to resist, occupied their country, and re-wrote their constitution to make them one. The difference between us and the Russians is that while their system makes life hard on everyone, ours is pretty good for all the reasons I named above. A lot of the United State's net benefit to the world has been in doing that. We are similar to a violent sociopath that storms into a shopping mall, kills all the guards, kills anyone who resists, then gives everyone a million dollars. Its been pretty good for the survivors overall, just don't gloss over the first part when thinking about international dynamics in the world today.

miclo18d 02-08-2017 06:40

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter (Post 623842)
This isn't just an individual thing... every major city clearing operation in Iraq erred on the side of thorough urban renewal through firepower. When stomping a city in 2005 an armored unit had a house IED that had some sort of chemical weapon in it slime a squad. They shortly thereafter lost a couple of tanks from underside IEDs, same neighborhood. Everyone pulled back and proceeded to hammer that section of the city with MLRS, artillery, tank main guns, and air dropped ordinance. Did they target discriminate? Sure... they aimed for the buildings. There wasn't a lot of hand wringing over the possibility that the civilians hadn't evacuated fully. We got hit by a VBIED the same day, it was a fun place.

Totally get it, but I think it starts in our human nature. Then we develop as a village. Those that don't comply with the group are put in stocks, exiled, or hung depending on the crime. Outside threats were dealt with militias and usually the threat was eleminated rather than repulsed. This grows to become a nation, an "empire", that also wants to survive at all costs. Whether the threat comes from abroad or inside. We do whatever it takes to survive at all levels.


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