it is a scientific fact that bacteria can become resistant to antb's via mutation via an anti pen enzyme...this mutation, is caused by a resorting or loss of the parent bacterias pre existing DNA, not a creation of new genetic information

Affirming the consequent.

How do we know the bacteria had increased viability because of improved information in the mutated section of DNA?
It could very well have had increased viability because of lost information.

This would be consistent with PRB's view.

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Looks like PRB beat me to the trigger.

And knowing your preference for the macro discussion that is exactly why I chose Margulis' work. :D We are going to start at the beginning and bring it forward ala Margulis. In the end, I think you will see evidence of how we humans are evolving. And by the way I am going to ask you to think of humans as complex symbiotic organisms (fact: most of our cells and our DNA is not human).

Darwinism is not the mutation of existing DNA within a species that changes that species to creat a sub species......what we've been discussing.
Darwinism is the creation of a new species, a complete and dif strain of DNA, from a mutation in another dif species.
Someone give me a scientific example of a DNA change that included HOX gene mutation that added beneficial replicating DNA that translated to a complete species change.....as that is Darwinism.
Since this had to happen thousands of times we must have lots of examples.

See Team Sgt, we can play nice...;)

Why is that the case....there should be some linkage that is traceable, identifiable.
We can trace our ancestors back thousands of years yet not scientifically trace, identify a cross over pt.

ie. I gave my DNA to the Genome project that traced my 'family' back to the craddle of civilization based upon my DNA markers...it mirrored exactly what the family history was, thru eastern Europe etc.
Yet, that is within the species of course.
I'm asking in any species to identify a transitional moment of species change.

And by the way I am going to ask you to think of humans as complex symbiotic organisms (fact: most of our cells and our DNA is not human).

I do think that, and why would having other molecular structure be 'not human'...everything is of 'this earth' as it were.

I believe we are 'evolving' as a species, we do that.....in my simplistic laymans mind I want to know when we will evolve into something non human...another species...as that is what Darwin suggested happens.

Going to go work out so I can continue (slow down) my evolutionary process (old )...
Good stuff guys.

Where is the link between prokaryotes and eukaryotes?
Why are there no 2 celled organisms?
Did vascular plants evolve from non-vascular plants, or vice-versa?
Where do insects fit in the evolutionary tree?

These steps would seem to precede mammals and humans.

Now we're getting somewhere.

How much time?
Roughly when were certain stages of evolution occurring?
(First amino acid, first protein, first cell, first multi-cell, first plant life, etc.)

Doc,
Cool chart...what does it say...diff species walked on two feet. Are they directly related by evolution thru macro DNA changes? Some evolved and others did not?
What?

just an example...most scientists have reclassified Neanderthal man as Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis...a human, homo sapien...as can be all of the other 'guys' on that chart in the humanoid vein....evolution within a species...not a cross over of apes to man.

It is also 'funny' that that chart has 'Lucy' on it...the much heralded 'missing link of years ago.
It was claimed Lucy walked upright and had to be a link because the 'knee was slightly larger' than a normal apes knee (evolving) and its femur had the same angle to knee ratio as a human.
It is documented that knee size means nothing, many apes and humans have dif sized knees....most tree dwelling apes have the same femur to knee ratio as humans and Richard Leakey said that the skull was so incomplete that 'imagination' made up her skull (The Weekend Australian 1983) He also noted there was no firm conclusion what species she was.
Anatomists proved in 1987 she was just another ape of the australopithecines and she did not walk upright..