This is the "rifle" that set the record of 3.04" at 1000 yds. A water cooled Kreiger barrel chambered for 300 Ackley Improved.
How much do you think this machine cost?

Buffalobob: How'd you like to carry this little honey into the woods for a long shot?

Excellent
 

I really liked what The Reaper had to say. I think that is sound principle. I have decided on the Rem 700 in 30'06. I might put a synthetic stock, for durability and longevity and still do not know what type of optic to go with, more research.
My plan is to get the rifle and shoot, shoot and shoot some more to learn the rifle. Once I get it down a bit, then I am going to take a class. I think going this route the rifle will out-shoot me for some time. Once I get that far, we can talk about how to make more rifle with what I have. Any ideas on a good optic that is weather-resistant and will be good for the platform that I have decided on. Not looking to break the bank but I do know you get what you paid for, so quality, dependability and durability is paramount. I can upgrade later when I get that far.
My whole intent in starting this thread was to just find a good basic platform that any newbie, such as myself; could get and start working with to become proficient with. With all the info that has come in, it has helped me decide and to watch myself not get caught up in the, getting more rifle than I can handle syndrome. That is exactly why I posted it here, I know there are hunting forums out there, but even they have the arm chair hunters with their opinions and false ideas.
May be a little late in life to start doing this but hey what the heck, you only live once.
Thanks guys.

As usual when discussing marksmanship records it's relatively easy to find out that your record is yesterday's news. Check this one out.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-with-300-wsm/

Interesting:

30-06? Be prepared to break the bank, abuse yourself for no reason, and spend far more time to become proficient.

The 30-06 became obsolete when the .308 came out. The .308 became obsolete when the .260 Remington came out.

Take a look at the .260. Half the recoil, better selection of bullets for all purposes, far better external ballistics capabilities and I believe better terminal ballistics capabilities -- provided you use the right bullet. Mostly, half the recoil and better exterior ballistics than the 0-6 or .308.

Gene

Interesting about going to a smaller caliber.

Do you have any strong opinions on the .243 Winchester?

Hey Gene, how come I never heard of the .260???

Gene - He said "survival" not Creedmor! :p Lot more meat on an elk than an antelope and you don't have to be so picky about shot placement with a .30. :munchin

TS - Depending on what you want to do you might want to educate yourself. .260 is a really nice round for a lot of reasons. (Though that changes from day to day too. Norm Crawford has been using 6.5x284 - very similar to the .260 - for a while and even he's starting to experiment in the 7mm range.) I'm having a .260 upper built for my DPMS lower. I expect it to be a competitive 1000 yd. gas gun. I'm still going to stick with the .30s for "survival", especially after seeing that 2.815″ record at 1000 yards with a 300 WSM. Not bad for a 10 shot group.

TS:

Not sure except that you most likely stay more focused on military or LEA requirements.

A .260 is basically a .308 necked down to 6.5mm. Just another modification of what is basically an extremely fine cartridge design.

Half the recoil, much better exterior ballistics than the .308 or 06, just as wide a range of bullets as found with the .30 calibers, same barrel life. They are pretty forgiving in terms of loads too and offer great accuracy potential without much if any effort in terms of loading. Overall a good efficient combination of case capacity and bullet diameter.

Guys use it for hunting medium and large game as well as competitive purposes.

Easy to make the brass by necking up .243 brass. Or you can just buy the brass. Nothing really new about the cartridge so companies make factory loads just as readily as you find for the .308.

Gene

PG:

Roger but you have to hit the animal to kill it. I imagine there won't be too much practice given a seven pound 30-06 and that performance will suffer as a result of the beating the fellow will take. Also, the 30-06 is a waste of cartridge length. Good for the days when you had to put that much powder into a case to get some speed but not today with the modern powders.

Gene

Dam it has been fun watching this one. :munchin :D

Well LR1947,I was waiting on your comments....... :D This is as good as any........... ;)

Big Teddy :munchin

for your consideration
 

I also have been wanting to get a new bolt gun and was considering this rifle:

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...al-aac-sd.aspx

It seems to have some features of a higher end gun i.e. faster twist rate, threaded, adjustable trigger and is going for $600-650 places that still have them. The threaded feature is important to me but may not be important to others.

Would this be a good choice to get into more "precision" shooting? (Precision is in quotes because my level of precision is not going to be anywhere near what members of this board would call precision)

I don't have much experience with bolt guns other than .30-06 and my 03a3 causes me to pull my shots after a while of it beating up on me (could be the stock more so than the cartridge).

.260 rem is interesting I had heard it is less susceptable to wind drift but does it supress well?

Would .260 subsonice perform similarly to .308 subs? I assume not because it is much lighter. This is only a concern because I was originally looking at a .308because of the ability to get subsonic factory ammo.
I could not find much data on subsonic .260 so I assume it is not a good idea or has not been developed much.

fng, the SPS-AAC version is a good rifle. The biggest flaw in the gun is the Hogue stock. They have a lot of flex in them. But the gun is still very capable of MOA groups.
I was at the range the other day and a buddy shot a .413" group (5 shot) with his. The only mod he has is a McMillan stock (and some prototype ammo...) :cool:

Teddy, I usually stay out of these as there is no one good answer. I hate to say depends but that is a fact.

Here are some of my thoughts though, for this discussion. (Not addressed at Teddy and not a lecture, only random thoughts.)

30.06 – Obsolete big case designed for slow burning powders that required more than required today. Case will still require more powder to get the same velocity with the same bullet in the .308. This means more recoil and more money burning down the barrel. While the 30.06 will shoot a heavier bullet than the .308, so will a 300 Win Mag, 300 WSM, and the 300 Ultra. You pay for it by shorter barrel life but if the weapon is going to kick you, you may as well get better velocities. Higher recoil means fewer rounds fired for practice without degradation of shooting principles. I know, some will claim to be recoil resistant. Fine go for the big ones.

.308 – This is a better round than the 30.06 and a good .30 cal round for mid range work. Lower recoil, and decent ballistics helps this round but again it is becoming obsolete with newer rounds coming out or the increase in the availability of bullets in other calibers.

7mm.08 – Good round with 7mm ballistics, light recoil allowing for longer practice periods for proficiency.

6.5mm – This is a very good ballistics and again lower recoil allowing greater range time without the induced problems of heavy recoil. The bullets available now are greater than before and they have been the round of choice by many long range shooters. Depending on the loads and cases the round is good for long range and big game.

Between the two stands the 6.8 or .270. This is again a solid performer with many years of development, good solid ballistics, and light recoil. The 270 is also good for long range and from Deer to Elk. An older round though.

As stated I usually stay out of these as it is the same with the best rifle. There is none. It depends and that sounds like a cop out but is the truth. It will depend on a bunch of things, range you will be shooting, target you will be shooting, will you carry the weapon, how far will you carry it, what position will you shoot from most, how much money do you have, how much do you plan to practice?

My 2 cents only guys and I liked Gene’s answer with the 260 as a good solid overall weapon. Remember less recoil longer practice sessions.

I will mention that this is a shortened version as I got finished I forgot to copy the post before I hit the send button. You guys know what happened, I had spent too much time on the answer and the site booted me and that lost my original post. I am doing what I should have the first time and doing this in Word to cut and paste into the site.

Not to be naysaying my smarter brothers, but if you are not going to be reloading, walk into the local WalMart or small gun store and see what calibers you can find.

I would love to have a .260 or 6.5, but they are not always easy to get ammo for. You can get factory match grade .308 in a couple of bullet weights from more than one manufacturer right off the store shelf.

One thing about the .308 is that you can always find it (along with .30-'06, .30-30, 7.62x39, .270, .243, and 5.56/.223 in any store with more than five or six centerfire rifle calibers. You can also get bulk quantities of cheaper surplus ammo for it as well.

If you plan to reload, an oddball or wildcat round is not a bad idea.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR