Sadly some gun owners couldn't care less about the second amendment. It was those voters who carried the day for Obama. Regrettably My father is a gun owner who can't stand the NRA and doesn't understand why I own evil black rifles and handguns.

"The control of firearms is very important in the control of the population, and to counter or prevent any form of armed resistance..." - to paraphrase a multitude of fascist, socialist, communist and tyranist writers.

An unarmed and cowed populace is what has created multiple overthrows of regimes - Krystallnacht, Prague, Beijing, Krakow come to mind over the past 100 or so years. As a society, America has forgotten that the ownership of firearms is protected by the Consititution to protect the abililty of the citizenry to form militias to protect the country should our government or a foreign entity threaten the country. Our own citizenry has allowed a 'domestic threat' to arise, by their own hand, in the guise of a 'protection of rights of the unarmed'.

The revolution will come - slowly, quietly, and insidiously, and as TS signature relates - nobody will know how it happened.

The removal of some rights - to obstensibly protect other rights - is a bad idea. We as a nation have to be self reliant, responsible, and stop thinking that we are entiltled to anything other than the rights protected by the Constituion, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence - and the right to work our asses off to get everything else desired - whether we achieve those goals or not. The Pursuit of happiness is guaranteed, actual happiness is not.

Gun ownership is protected, but a felon's rights are abridged by the fact a crime has been commited - this has been upheld by the government at State and Federal levels - therefore felons should be prosecuted, not law abiding gun owners - who happen to be the great majority of this population (gun owners).

rant over - back to your regularly scheduled programming.

I vehemently agree x SF med, so much so that I just tried to send an email to every member of the Judiciary committee where this stinking bill currently resides, unfortunately they don't make that easy to do.

Of the 40 members of the Judiciary committee I only got email addresses to 3 when clicking on the contact me link on each of their websites. On the judiciary committee website there is no way to contact all (not that it surprises me). So I started going down their list one by one, on most I had to guess at their address as the vast majority of them asked for your name and address and had a zip code authenticator that basically blocked you if you are not in their district. So I punched in their first and last name with the mail.hous.gov domain and hit send, 12 went through, 28 bounced.

Trent Franks,Steven King, Maxine Waters, Randy Forbes, Jackson Lee, Darrell Issa, Zoe Lofgren, Dan Lungren, Robert Scott, Elton Gallegly, James Sensenbrenner, Lamar Smith, Dan Maffei, Debbie Schultz, Linda Sanchez, Adam Schiff, Charles Gonzalez, Tammy Baldwin Gregg Harper Brad Sherman Tom Rooney, Luis Gutierrez, Jason Chaffetz, Pedro Pierluisi Ted Poe, Hank Johnson, Jim Jordan, and Robert Wexler all bounced, if any of these are your rep please shoot them an email, or if you can get their email PM me and I'll more than happy to email them myself. I tried to google them but just kept getting their websites. Maybe I should file a FOIA for the congressional email roster, of course on one of the ones that went through I got this response

So maybe it wouldn't even matter if I got their email addresses correct.

Here is the email I've sent already,

Folks, you can follow these links and the others related. Every thinking individual must make up their own mind on the subject matter, but make no mistake never before have the stars been aligned for the US Government to decide for you what the concept of liberty and freedom really means for every individual citizen of this country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2N...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkS2B...eature=related

It looks like the fox is trying to take a different route into the henhouse.

Senate Bill 2286 recently died in committee in the state of Mississippi. If passed this bill would have required serial encoding of all ammunition produced or sold in the state. It also would have required disposal of all non encoded ammunition by 1 Jan 2010!

This all apparently falls under the larger umbrella of the Ammunition Accountability Act. On one of their websites, their motto is "saving lives one bullet at a time".

If this ever passes, it will probably make ammunition unafordable by most, not to mention the issues it poses to 2nd ammendment rights ( protection of freedom) and privacy issues.

This is currently underway in other states. I would encourage everyone to check their local legislation and make sure this is not silently making its way onto the books in their area.

Health and safety to all.

This type of legislation really concerns me. It seems those that oppose the second ammendment are taking action that has worked well for the anti hunting/trapping groups. Rather than pushing for outright bans which meet heavy opposition, these groups have sought to place restictions on rights rather than removing them. It seems that the chisel works better than the axe. Sorry if I have moved off topic.

A law isn't worth the paper it's written on, if there is no one willing to enforce it.

Well, as we have learned, there is always someone willing to violate the Constitution and their fellow citizen's rights for a paycheck.

You think that people in England, Canada, and Australia didn't say they same thing?

How many died by their guns? How many risked their family members' lives by armed resisitance?

You think that after Ruby Ridge and Waco, people will not eventually, gradually give up their guns, by one means, or another?

No need to go door to door to collect them. Just make ammo unavailable and have fellow citizens turn in anyone who has the temerity to actually take a gun out and fire it. Just restrict ownership further and further, into narrower categories, till all you can own is an Airsoft gun. Just round up shooters and their guns every time they shoot, and make them convicted felons with no rights till they dry up and die off.

This will be a lot easier than you think, despite the protestations.

TR

Sad as it is...
 

You're right Reaper while 40 million hunting rifles could take on a couple of million soldiers with armor and etc, it will not likely be done. We'll all end up sheep and the leftist sheep will rule. If enough resistance flares up in a spot or two there may then be a ground swell of the same and then who knows. I will have to do a lot of thinking. Blitz
PS I've never been a sheep, and resistance is in the blood.

And thus, it starts? "One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms."

-- Constitutional scholar and Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, 1840

As a former NY Rep. for the 2nd Amendment Sisters, I spent a lot of time discussing the AWB and attending gun shows and meeting with hunters in the upstate region of NY. They didn't think that their weapons were an issue in the matter of "gun control". Their attitude was, "well, all I do is hunt with it so I can feed my family". My arguments on why they should join the cause fell on deaf ears and eventually I just said "well, then I guess you can do your hunting at the local walmart or grocery store with your grocery cart because one day your hunting rifles and shotguns will be dust collectors". They would just shrug and move on. We worked simultaneously with the NRA to educate and get the word out about our 2nd Amendment rights being in jeopardy.
I have read about the encoding on ammo. And it is another form of "gun control" only I think it's a much "slicker" way of going about it. It will get to the point where you won't be able to buy ammo and thusly, they have won their "gun control" issue.
There have been numerous reports on how "gun control" ie, banning weapons in England has caused many a victimized citizen to become a felon for protecting their property and their family with a now "illegal" weapon. And now the good people of England are outraged. Here are two stories that are good examples and possibly where we are headed soon if our governments wish "to protect us" from ourselves becomes a reality:

In 1994 an English homeowner, armed with a toy gun, managed to detain two burglars who had broken into his house while he called the police. When the officers arrived, they arrested the homeowner for using an imitation gun to threaten or intimidate. In a similar incident the following year, when an elderly woman fired a toy cap pistol to drive off a group of youths who were threatening her, she was arrested for putting someone in fear. Now the police are pressing Parliament to make imitation guns illegal.

In 1999 Tony Martin, a 55-year-old Norfolk farmer living alone in a shabby farmhouse, awakened to the sound of breaking glass as two burglars, both with long criminal records, burst into his home. He had been robbed six times before, and his village, like 70 percent of rural English communities, had no police presence. He sneaked downstairs with a shotgun and shot at the intruders. Martin received life in prison for killing one burglar, 10 years for wounding the second, and a year for having an unregistered shotgun. The wounded burglar, having served 18 months of a three-year sentence, is now free and has been granted �5,000 of legal assistance to sue Martin.
http://www.edp24.co.uk/Content/News/...TonyMartin.asp

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html (it's an article from 02, but these stories and ones like them keep surfacing.)


I liked this quote, so I had to share it:
"As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives [only] moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion to your walks."

-- Thomas Jefferson, writing to his teenaged nephew

The question is...
 

The question for most people is "As what point do I decide to become a law breaker?"

Most every American wishes to live in peace and within the law. They try to follow the local, state and Federal laws the best they can.

The laws for storage, ammunition, license, fees, etc are getting so complex that the average citizen is going to trip up one day.

With the coming laws - the same thing - the more complex the laws the easier to turn someone into a criminal.

Each person will draw the line in a different place.

Death by a thousand cuts.

Exactly. And if they are smart, they will not announce when and where they drew the line on a public forum.

Good, I wouldn't expect you to become one, either.

As I recall, when operations are conducted behind the OPFOR's FLOT, then one usually attempts to remain undetected by the OPFOR, even though you may be creating chaos in their AO. I would suggest this operation is no different. TR has graciously identified the OPFOR (i.e. anyone who would enact and enforce such laws).

What about us who have sworn to defend?
 

So to the other members of the armed service, what do we do? When do we say that the enemies of the Constitution are governing us? That document is something I hold dear to my heart. I have a book on my desk that is the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and my troops must read it within the first week they are working for me. So my concern has become one of where do I, as a member of the Armed Forces, draw the line? I have an idea, but what I do after that line is hit, I'm not sure what to do.

-Thin ice here I know, especially on an open forum.

As a member of the Armed Forces myself, I would have to say the time to draw the line would be when they give you orders that defy the constitution. That would not be considered a "lawful" order. The oath we all took had that part "To protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." When that line is crossed you'll know. Revisit the antics of the Gestapo.
I for one am not going to stand idly by, and watch my rights that my predecessors fought and died for go the way of the dodo. I'm an active NRA member, I instill the knowledge of our rights and freedoms to my son, I vote, and I exercise my first amendment right to my congress critter/local delegates. If everyone did that, someone might listen. The arrogance and ignorance of our fearless leaders astounds me. Back in my lane, out.